What Model is This?

[beeeerock]

I'm hoping someone can identify this bike...  I've had if for quite a few years - but haven't been riding it.  Events transpired to prevent me from using it right as I took possession - quite a few years ago - and I got into other things.  Life is letting me get out again now, so I've pulled it out of the back of the garage to sort out.

Anyway, it came to me used.  Fairly lightly used.  Previous owner stripped it down and clear-coated the metal.  Bomber Z1 shocks on the front.  Race Face all over.  He had built it to downhill, but this would have been before downhill bikes were really a specific design.  I'm having trouble deciding when this would have been.  Maybe early 2000's, or late 90's.

Front shocks are soft... I'll need to figure out if they need a rebuild or if it's just a matter of adjustment.  I was riding a Rocky Mountain Hammer (no suspension of any kind!) when I got this one, so I have to admit to having little experience with shocks in general.

I can post the serial number if that would identify the actual model and year.

Thanks!

[w2zero]

 1997 Proflex  but since the previous owner stripped and changed parts, don't know what specific model.   

[purple gerbil]

Try checking in and around all the nooks & crannys like cable stops and up inside the top of the shock mount to see if there is any trace of colour depends on how thorough the sand blaster or chemical peel was.

[Colin]

Essentially it's a "9-Style" bike, also known as the '97 "World Cup" frame.
but as for the specific model. it could be a 956, 857. 957, or a 3000.

Original frame colour would pin it down, but pretty irrelevant as I am fairly sure the frames are identical in terms of material etc, but I have heard a rumour that 956's and 957's were made in the USA and others offshore. Anyone know better?

My punt is that it is a 957 and was originally polished Ally finish.

yes, serial number might help, you can leave off the last few digits if you like.

Col.

[beeeerock]

Wow, quick responses!  Wasn't sure if there was much activity on this forum, but glad to see it's alive (I run a photography forum and membership ebbs and flows - sometimes when the numbers drop I'm tempted to just shut it down... but it provides a home for those that stick around, so I keep it going for their benefit.).

The serial number under the crank shows RED paint.  Serial number is H7H0118##.  Does this narrow it down any further?

I'm assuming this bike never had that unusual front parallelogram suspension I've seen in some photos?  Wouldn't want the geometry messed up by moving the forks back!!  The front end feels a bit odd to me, but I think the shocks need to be stiffened up.

I'm a recreational cross country rider now.  Nothing too daring anymore - I'm in my late 40's and don't want any more metal holding me together than I already have.  Need to get to work on Monday to earn a living and support the family and all that... ;-)  Is this a bike suitable for my use?  Any particular issues I should be aware of, or wary of?  If it is a '97, that's 9 whole model years newer than my retro Hammer which still rides great I discovered!

[beeeerock]

Replying to myself, because I decided to surf Google images at lunch 

What I'm figuring out is that the carbon fibre (or so it appears) rear end is what points me at the models you've suggested.

The 857 seems to have been produced in red.

The back shock with the auxiliary oil reservoir (I assume) seems to me more common in photos of the 9 hundred series, but there doesn't seem to be a firm connection... except that 9 hundred isn't typically red.

I've noticed that the parallelogram fork design actually sets the wheel hub behind the forks.  The Bomber's on mine put it a little ahead.  So I'm guessing that swapping out the parallelogram system doesn't mess up geometry and the hub ends up at about the same location in both cases.

I'm going to guess that you'll say '1997 ProFlex 857' and maybe make a comment about whether the rear shock was also swapped out with the rest of the parts?

If it is an 857, I suppose that would disprove the rumour about offshore manufacturing?

I'll be interested to hear whether this is a keeper model or more of a money pit... 

[Colin]

Well done Mr Beeeerock (that your Real name? <GRIN>)

You have solved most of your bike riddle!

Yes, you have followed my reasoning, the carbon swing arm restricts it to the model numbers I listed, (unless someone swapped it! LOL!)

If there's evidence of red paint then that rules out 956. 957 and 3000, so it's an 857 !

H7H serial number is also correct for a '97 857, (possibly late '97)

The NR-4 piggy back shock is the top of the range shock of the time and was fitted as standard to the 957 but was an upgrade option on the 857 as it normally has the NR-2.
Be aware that the first digit in most PRO~FLEX models means the component spec, i.e. higher number = better, middle number is nearly always a 5, and the last digit is the model year. most of that goes out of the window on later models with names and "thousand" number ranges. oh yeah and it's not a 900 series bike, it's an "x57" style! Ha ha.

Yes it would definately have had Noleen (was Girvin) Crosslink parralelogram forks as OE when new (unless bought as a frame! LOL!). at rest the hub sits pretty much in line with the head tube angle, but does tuck back slightly as it moves up to follow the ideosyncratic Girvin "J-Path" of enlightenment...........

As for the keeper question...............the x57 will make a good XC bike, but does have the geometry for a flatter rider position than is popular today. I'd heartily recommend it for a lily livered old fart like yourself (I am probably the same age, and have the same healthy regard for my well being..........<GRIN>)

The potential showstoppers on this bike are:

1) Pivot bearing kits- no longer made and just about available as New Old Stock on eBay, but rarely wear out if maintained and if really pushed a few clever souls on here have done needle bearing conversions on various models.

2) Rear shock - the lower cone and end bolt mounting is unique to PRO~FLEX and there are limited options for replacements, (RISSE etc) But again, the mechanical mad scientists on here have produced a number of adaptors to use modern eye 2 eye shocks.

Good luck with it and I'm sure plenty of others will pitch in with info as the Summer Holidays end, we're a relatively small community on here, but geographically huge, with expertise and a friendly willingness to help people out. Feel free to ask any more Q's

In the meantime here's some links to diagrams of the 9 series bike:
'97 957 & 857 Frame Assembly
http://idriders.com/proflex/resources/97_spc957.pdf
'97 957, 857, 757, Animal, & Beast Main Pivot Assembly
http://idriders.com/proflex/resources/97_spc957_pivot.pdf
'97 957, 857, 757, Animal, & Beast Strut Assembly
http://idriders.com/proflex/resources/97_spc957_strut.pdf
oh and you'll need to check that you have the right coil spring weight on the rear for your weight:
http://idriders.com/proflex/resources/99spring_chart.pdf

Best of Luck

Col.

[beeeerock]

Thanks Colin, some very useful information condensed into one post.

Almost my real name... remove all the 'e's and you have it.  It's a hold over from my garage band days as a 40 year old - someone at the office came up with it one day and wouldn't let it go... so might as well ride along! 

The logic of the naming (numbering) convention makes good sense.  I had thought the carbon fibre swing arm was an indicator of a higher model, but evidently just a newer design and model year.

The '8' makes sense too, as it appears to be all Deore XT which I recall being pretty solid stuff back in the day.  My '88 Rocky Mountain Hammer was straight Deore and I coveted the XT on my friend's bikes... 

My sense is that the bike was built, perhaps raced once or twice, then other interests intervened and the original owner sold it to get some cash.  There is little evidence of any wear or abuse.  I suspect he enjoyed the project more than the exercise...

What is the generally accepted method of maintaining ('lubricating', I suppose) the pivot bearing?  I haven't come across a link for that anywhere yet.

I'm a relative lightweight, so doubt I'll wear that rear shock out anytime soon.  I'd like to think I'm young and nimble enough to do so, but my wife would probably disagree...!

I should try to track down the original owner to see if he has the original front suspension around.  But likely not, or he bought the frame only.  Did they sell the frame only back then?  He would have bought it new, based on the model year I'm quite sure.

Two other things that have come to light I'd like to ask about.  Perhaps I should start a new thread... if so, let me know and I'll cut/paste into a new one...

1) I did some clean up and tuning last night.  I gave it a few runs up and down the street and all worked smoothly.  Then I tried a very steep bit of gravel (up) in the lowest gear, having to really crank up... the chain derailed.  I put it back together, looked at the derailleur alignments and figured all was fine... tried again, same issue.  On the asphalt, I can't put enough force into it to do the same thing... I just surge ahead.  I found a comment somewhere that suggested the suspension travel in this sort of circumstance could cause the shift cable to tension.  Is this a problem with the ProFlex line?  I don't see any signs of wear on the cogs and it doesn't feel like a slip from worn parts... it just jumps off and I'm spinning air.

2) The Bomber Z1's are a mystery to me.  Two adjustments on the top of each side - a little screw in the centre and a knurled 'nut' of a larger diameter.  I think the little screws adjust the rebound and the outer nut pre-tensions the spring inside.  But no idea if that's right or how much to adjust... or if backing them all the way off to start again (to make sure both sides are even) is going to result in something going 'sproooiiing'.  The Marzocchi site is skinny on information for anything not relatively current.  I'm assuming the "20% compressed when sitting on the bike rule" of thumb I've seen applies to front and back suspensions.  I don't think I'm much more than that, if I'm even that far compressed... but they feel quite soft compared to modern shocks I've seen in the stores. No evidence of leakage and they function smoothly... just feel like there should be more resistance than there is.  Plenty of travel - maybe they were built soft to use most of it?  Just leaves me feeling like I'm going to get pitched over the bars if I ride down into a ditch or something.  In comparison, the back end feels much stiffer.

I have to say I like this site so far... this bike is one of those oddball things that you either love or hate.  An eclectic bike if I can dare use that word.  Which pretty much fits my interests - my next project is a 1981 RX-7... because I love the unusual rotary engine! 

[Colin]

Ha ha, good moniker Brock,

Yeh the carbon swing arm and pivot location were an evolution from the x55/x56 series of the previous two years, (which obviously evolved from the x54, x53, x52, x50 and the Offroad RF1 and 2)

Pivot lube instructions by member "OP"
http://idriders.com/proflex/tech/tech_op4.shtml

Also, look at the owners instruction book Pages 14 -15 mainly,
http://idriders.com/proflex/resources/98k2bike_manual.pdf
I'd recommend buying a RK001 pivot bearing kit if you're planning on keeping the bike for the longer term and would maybe ensure it's saleability in the future.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/310721607665
The Crosslake price is no different to what they cost back in the day!
http://www.crosslakesales.com/m-28-k2.aspx

Yes with good luck the shock should last a long time and can be rebuilt albeit at a cost by J6
https://j6shocks.com/Mountain_Bike_Services.html
or you could buy a new one:
http://shop.noleenj6.com/category.sc;jsessionid=8B85DFEF5F968C6846DE9B530238EE3B.m1plqscsfapp02?categoryId=7

No I don't think the 857 frame was sold seperately, possibly the 957 was......previous owner probably just got fed up with the Crosllinks, (they are a " Marmite" fork, - love them or hate them).

It's your thread! but someone might help better on the Z1 Question on retroriders.

on the chain jump Q, my immediate thought was "worn chainring and/or stretched chain" so I 'd recommend a thorough check of that. Is it the right chain and right length?
The PRO~Flex's aren't notorious for either chain or cable shortening/lengthening during suspension movement, unless the cable route is very tight already?
If it's dropping off the inside of the granny ring then I wouldn't have thought it was cable induced. You're not crossing the chain heavily are you?

so, can't help on the Z1 Question.

and your mention of an RX-7 allows "Wankel" http://idriders.com/proflex/smf/index.php?action=profile;u=428 to jump in and discuss all things Rotary with you.........come on guys! stop making it look like I'm the only live one on here! <GRIN>

Col.

[purple gerbil]

Always quite fancied a wankel myself,very interesting engines,lightweight,less moving parts and have been proven in endurance races. Equivalent to a 1.3 litre I think. Some garages won't touch them,afraid of the unknown.

[Spokes]

Sorry Col I'm alive but working off my iphone as land line is disconnected at the moment. I agree with all that Col has said though. As for Wankels, the older ones were prone to wearing the rota tips thus loosing compression and smoking. Probably sorted by now.

Chris

[beeeerock]

Thank you for all the information... I've got some reading to do and should probably do a bit of a tear down to check things over.

Ah, the rotary!  Yeah, the first ones in the late 60's and early 70's were real oil pumps.  Apex seals were a problem and they burned oil like crazy.  In spite of that, they still made plenty of power!

My '81 came to me around '89.  I drove it for a while at that time, then put it into storage when other priorities in life came about.  It's in great shape and the plan now is to clean it up enough to get 'collector plates' for it - meaning cheap insurance if used for pleasure only.  I found a new engine (well, an engine rebuilt with new rotor housings) that I'll drop in too.  If you've driven one of these things, you'll understand how different they are... light steering, very agile... they drive like nothing else I've been in.  And that great rotary sound when you wind it up!  The 12A engine was used in the first gen RX-7's, which had a displacement of about 1200 cc's.  The end of the first generation and the second generation came with the 13B in various incarnations.

The story of taking it out of storage is here: http://www.nanson.org/wordpress/?p=61

[kiwi]

the ghost shifting may be cured by removing the cable stops at the swingarm and running the outer cable all the way through

[beeeerock]

That's an interesting idea Kiwi... perhaps I should disconnect the rear shock and examine the full range of motion closely for a clue as to whether this is the problem or not.  Thanks!

[kiwi]

That's an interesting idea Kiwi... perhaps I should disconnect the rear shock and examine the full range of motion closely for a clue as to whether this is the problem or not.  Thanks!

its a problem that the x56 and x57 have,it solved the partial ghost shifting on my 756