Author Topic: Newbie to Disk brakes. (Read 3802 times)

shovelon · « **on:** February 01, 2005, 10:20:36 am »

I am in the process of installing a disk brake and wheel on the front of my Oz. I am lacing a wtb laser disk lite hub to a Mavic 317d rim. I am going with double butted thin stainless spokes laced in 3 cross pattern. The plan is to keep sub 640 grams minus skewer.

The question is can I use aluminum nipples with disk brakes(180 magura julie). My LBS says that the load put on by the disk hub may be too great for alum nipples.

Any thoughts?

Thanks, Terry

shovelon · « **Reply #1 on:** February 01, 2005, 10:37:14 am »

Opps, true total estimate is sub 690 grams. DT revolution 1.8/1.5/1.8 spoke weigh twice as much as originaly thought.

Anyone know of a good lite rimstrip?

Terry

Sprucey · « **Reply #2 on:** February 01, 2005, 09:04:02 pm »

I think you are wasting your time with Aluminium nipples on a mountain bike. the weight saving is so neglible it's not worth it.

They round off too easily and yor LBS may have a point they mat strip.

Use brass nipples.

I wouldn't use ally onnany disc wheels I build here.

Sprucey

Old Proflexer · « **Reply #3 on:** February 02, 2005, 12:12:08 am »

i think if you can get them trued, tight and untouchable as some wheels can be, one could use aluminum -
but i wouldn't.

probably like sprucey, i've laced and trued a lot of wheels in my time. there's too many other ways to save a little rotational weight, times to save it and times to go strong and forget the weight savings.

always build mtb wheels strong, unless it's a 'just one race' thing - they even make ultra lite throw away chains and cogs for that sort of thing. try truing a wheel on the trail with stripped nipples
(that sounds kind of kinky)

road wheels are a different matter.

OP

Carbon_Angus · « **Reply #4 on:** February 02, 2005, 04:09:14 am »

i am in total agreement with Sprucey and OP

[smiley=beer.gif]

oh yeah rim strip..I'd use a cloth one like velotape. the thinner stuff has a tendency to allow enough deformation on the rim strip which wears out your tube, or can even cut it.

shovelon · « **Reply #5 on:** February 04, 2005, 09:33:37 am »

Thanks guys for the insight.

Since it has become apparant that the disk side of the disk wheel carries more load, I have decided to put brass nipples on that side and keep the alum nipples on the other.John, my wheel builder assures me that I will probably stretch the spokes before I strip the brass nipples. If I do I will replace with heavier spokeson that disk side.

As far as the tape, I have settled on 17 mm Ritchey WCS ultralite at 4 grams. Before applying I am going to soften the edge on the holes. We think that it will duplicate the profile of the thicker Velox cloth tape.

Then the Bontrager ultralite tube at 110 grams and WTB Mutanoraptor 2.4 tire at 580 grams will be added. This combo seems lighter than tubeless to me at 680 grams. Is what I use currently and works well.

I am still worried that the 180 mm Magura Julie will spit me over the bars or rip out the spokes. We'll see. Should be done next week. Film at 11.

Terry

Dennis · « **Reply #6 on:** February 04, 2005, 10:57:09 pm »

Terry,

even though the brake rotors are fairly close to the rotational center of the wheel and therefore don't add quite as much to the rotational inertia of the wheel, since you so worried about weight (going with a thinner rimstrip and all), why are you using 180mm rotors?

It seems to me that you plan on doing xc with your Oz since you are trying to keep weight down so much, 165mm rotors are more than powerful enough. also, 165 mm rotors are going to weigh a whole lot less than 180 mm rotors and add less to the rotational inertia.

rotational inertia is what makes it harder to accelerate the wheels. its both a good and bad thing. bad for acceleration and deceleration, good if you are on the flats and going over roots and rocks, since its keeps the wheels turning.

I have noticed with the very heavy Aerospokes on my new tourer that on flats, the thing just wants to roll and roll, with less energy needed from me. however, I am glad I put discs on the thing since they give me the stopping power I need, but going up hills requires extra effort.

have phun! I know you are going to love disc brakes!

[smiley=groucho.gif]

shovelon · « **Reply #7 on:** February 06, 2005, 02:27:12 pm »

Hi Dennis,

Yes, I am getting excited to try out the disks. I got the Julies on Ebay cheap. The front has bigger rotor than the rear. I could swap to the rear on the front if need be.

I am trying to keep the weight close to what I have now. Eventually I want to have disks front and rear with a sub 25lb bike weight. I am eyeballing the Stan's notube Marta or Formula brake combo. I almost have bugs in the Stratos ID damper ironed out, so the brake will round out the front end.

Terry

Dennis · « **Reply #8 on:** February 06, 2005, 02:45:38 pm »

Quote

Hi Dennis,

. I almost have bugs in the Stratos ID damper ironed out, so the brake will round out the front end.

Terry

Hi Terry,
I have been thinking about getting a stratos id damper installed in the fork on my Oz. How well does it work? Could you expand on what you mean ironing out bugs in the damper?

thanks, I'd be real interested in your answer.

[smiley=groucho.gif]

shovelon · « **Reply #9 on:** February 07, 2005, 04:00:04 am »

Dennis,

My old damper took a dump a few months ago.

That Stratos Id Cartridge upgrade turned out to be a compromise solution for my Psylo SL. It replaces the lockout so you don't have to reach down and switch. It does prevent bobbing on cllimbs, but not as good as a true lockout.
And because a brass weight has to move to release the lockout, there is a slight restriction initialy on hits.

On descents, the brass weight has to move drop down to open the valve. You have to take a hit to do this and as much as they say it is seemless, my arms are feeling it.

What I did is I lowered from 7 weight fork oil to 2 weight, virtually negating the lockout. I rode this way for a while and then sent back for a respringing for a softer lockout. Now I am again playing with fork oil weights. I have a slight lockout, but the stroke is still not as smooth as my old pure damper with the rock solid manual lockout.

I will really never have it the way I thought it would work. The old damper in good working order is better, even though I have to engage and disengage manually.

Really I want the Maverick fork.

Terry

proflex252 · « **Reply #10 on:** February 07, 2005, 05:50:16 am »

@ shovelon!

Do yourself a favour and don't take that lightweight bullshit DT Revolutions.
They are so soft. Even I can feel it and I don't weight to much (72kg).
Take Competitions (2.0-1.8-2.0) and brass nipples and U won't have any trouble at all for years. The competitions weight 28 gramms more than the revos per wheel and last 4ever.
With discs U can't go lightweight that much. Otherwise something breaks. So don't do that.

And if U want to go DH sometimes or you plan to go to the Alps or Rockies (so U have to do 1500 meters downwards) than U have to take a 180 mm disc. If U weight more than 80 kg U better take 200plus discs. It's your safety.

CU

shovelon · « **Reply #11 on:** February 07, 2005, 09:55:30 am »

P 252,

You are right in that I am ugrading to the 2.0/1.8/2.0 in the rear when I add the disk brake. Again I will use brass nipples on the disk side.

My existing rear wheel has the stainless eyelets dimpling the rim, and I see one crack next to the eyelet. I am seeing some spoke stretch too. But I have never had an alum nipple fail.

My front wheels have been pretty much hassle free for me, and actually never need attention. I will really keep an eye on spoke life though on this one.

Believe me, I am taking you seriously which is why I looking at all aspects of this build.

Thanks, Terry

Simon · « **Reply #12 on:** February 08, 2005, 05:21:43 am »

I must be the odd one out here,I've been running with Disc's for a couple of years now and at the time of fitting disc's I fitted a custom wheelset of Mavic X317 rims, DT swiss revolution spokes,aluminium nipples,and Hope hubs,to date I've never had to re-true the front, only had to replace 2 rear spokes and re-true and that was only due to damage from a branch,they've had a hard life but I'm happy with them,one thing though they where professionally built by a very well respected wheel building company,this I also found to be the most economical option if I'd bought all the parts individually the cost would of been greater,what I also noticed on these wheels is the anti seize used on the spoke threads and between the nipple face and rim thus stopping any gauling between the spoke/nipples and rim, thus they don't seize so they don't round off,
Simon.

shovelon · « **Reply #13 on:** February 08, 2005, 09:26:58 am »

Simon,

Would you do anything different to the rear seeing that it is taking more abuse?

Like you my existing front wheel is virtualy trouble free also.

Terry

Thunderchild · « **Reply #14 on:** February 08, 2005, 10:27:19 am »

I have seen aluminum nipples used on the non-disk side and brass on the disk side. I just finished my second front disk wheel build. I have built three rear disk to date. I decided to try aluminum nipples. I haven't ridden the wheel yet though. I need to get a rotor for it. I will post once I ride on it.

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Author Topic: Newbie to Disk brakes. (Read 3802 times)