Author Topic: 856 sizing questions (Read 6514 times)

sammydog · « **on:** October 01, 2009, 02:14:36 pm »

Hi guys.

I recently found a crack in my 955 which I am intending to have repaired, but I have found the front triangle from an 856 for sale (pic below). The bike is apparently a 20", does anyone know what this equates to in top tube and seat tube dimensions. What size rider do you think this would be good for?

Also, I've never seen a Proflex with the extended seat tube before, was this common?

Spokes · « **Reply #1 on:** October 01, 2009, 02:38:13 pm »

My 856 was called a 19.5" when I got it. It measures the same as my large 857. Im 6'2" and and they fit me great. My sadle is quite high but I've always set up my bikes that way.

Chris

orange · « **Reply #2 on:** October 01, 2009, 11:45:42 pm »

this might be the fabled 856 'Way Big'. Not many around.

sammydog · « **Reply #3 on:** October 02, 2009, 12:51:38 am »

seller has told me the following dimensions.

the seat tube measures 55cm center to top of seat tube collar and 47 cm center to center. the top tube is 59cm.or 60 cm theoretical

When I measure up my frame I get 51cm center of BB to top of seat tube, and a 58cm top tube. I was always under the impression my frames were 17", but the measurements don't seem to stack up to the 20" frame for sale.

DugB · « **Reply #4 on:** October 02, 2009, 09:03:49 am »

Looks like a late model production to me...first, it's a "World Cup Design" and not a "Factory Test" frame based on the sticker. Someone told me the latter bikes were earlier.

Also, none of my 856's (3 larges, 1 small) have the bottle cage mounts on the back of the seat tube, and your frame (which looks to be unused!) also has the reinforcement on the underside of the downtube right at the headtube joint...a nice feature.

Just curious, does it have the "Made in..." sticker on the bottom bracket shell?

Also looks like your rear pivot hole is drilled nice and center, not offset the way many of us have seen while implementing the sealed bearing pivot conversion. Interesting though that if the frame is a late model that it still has the pass-through in the seat tube for the rear canti brake cable stop...guess it wasn't so late in the '96 production that they were using the 857/957-series seat tubes, which don't have the pass-through from what I remember.

Very nice find!

- Doug :-)

Colin · « **Reply #5 on:** October 02, 2009, 09:31:47 am »

Yep! That's a "Way Big"

856's came in four sizes:
14" Small (recognized by upper shock bolt fixing being partially within the top tube)
16" Medium (top tube bend between seat tube and head tube)
18" Large (top tube bend directly in front of seat tube)
20" Way Big (top tube bend same as Large and tall seat tube)

The inch measurments above are "virtual" measurments i.e. the frame is equivalent to "traditional" frames of that size, so it's very difficult make an actual measurment that results in one of those sizes!

Here's a table with measurments in mm.

         14"   16"   18"   20"
Top Tube Length   519.8   554.2   578.8   592.0
Head Tube Angle   71°   71°   71°   71°
Seat Tube Angle   75°   74°   74°   74°
Chainstay length   429   429   429   429
Stand Over height   685   762   762   762
Head Tube Length   100   120   120   120

Hope that helps!

P.s. I'm 5' 8" and my Medium XP-X is about right for me, but maybe I could wear a Large...........<GRIN>

Col.

WD Pro · « **Reply #6 on:** October 02, 2009, 10:06:22 am »

Hi Doug,

Is the word cup design and 'made in ...' sticker meaningfull ? Mine had both.

Do the frame numbers on these things tell anything useful ?

Cheers,

WD

DugB · « **Reply #7 on:** October 02, 2009, 11:01:46 am »

Hey!

I don't know that there's really a significance other than possibly indicating the age. Someone once told me that the "Factory Test" frames were made in the US, but I've never heard anything to corroborate that. Looking across the frames and forks I do have I see definite differences, especially in the thickness and quality of the welds...and especially on the fork legs. Other than that, though, I guess a frame is a frame is a frame.

- Doug :-)

WD Pro · « **Reply #8 on:** October 02, 2009, 11:43:22 am »

Ok, thanks for that

all the welds on mine look pretty good but the swing arm fabrication is particullary nice ...

I think the hardest area on these frames to get looking good is the straight welds on the seat gusset as they stare you in the face from virtualy every viewing angle !

sammydog · « **Reply #9 on:** October 02, 2009, 07:20:25 pm »

Quote from: Colin on October 02, 2009, 09:31:47 am

Yep! That's a "Way Big"

856's came in four sizes:
14" Small (recognized by upper shock bolt fixing being partially within the top tube)
16" Medium (top tube bend between seat tube and head tube)
18" Large (top tube bend directly in front of seat tube)
20" Way Big (top tube bend same as Large and tall seat tube)

The inch measurments above are "virtual" measurments i.e. the frame is equivalent to "traditional" frames of that size, so it's very difficult make an actual measurment that results in one of those sizes!

Here's a table with measurments in mm.

         14"   16"   18"   20"
Top Tube Length   519.8   554.2   578.8   592.0
Head Tube Angle   71°   71°   71°   71°
Seat Tube Angle   75°   74°   74°   74°
Chainstay length   429   429   429   429
Stand Over height   685   762   762   762
Head Tube Length   100   120   120   120

Hope that helps!

P.s. I'm 5' 8" and my Medium XP-X is about right for me, but maybe I could wear a Large...........<GRIN>

Col.

That's a great post.

Interesting, from that, if the sizing i the same for 955/855 then I am riding around on Large frames based on the location of the top tube bend. I'm about the same size as you and have always sort of wished the frames were a little smaller.

I certainly wouldn't want my frame to be any bigger (would love to have a medium) so I think I will leave the frame on offer alone and let it go to another home.

The search for a replacement frame will continue. Or I should just bite the bullet and get both of my frames repaired.

Its on ebay in australia if anyone wants the link.

sammydog · « **Reply #10 on:** October 04, 2009, 07:16:30 pm »

I've decided to bid on this after all. Worst case I will run a shorter stem to make up for the longer top tube. I don't think saddle height will be an issue and the stand over height is the same.

If I win it and don't like the size, I will offer it up here.

DugB · « **Reply #11 on:** October 04, 2009, 07:37:01 pm »

Ergh, are you all sure that the 20" 856 was the "Way Big"? I have 3 20" 856's (according to the size sticker on the seat tube) and none have the rear facing bottle cages or headtube/downtube gussett shown in the pic. Was the production of 20" frames really fewer in number than the others?

- Doug :-)

Colin · « **Reply #12 on:** October 05, 2009, 06:49:26 am »

Quote from: DugB on October 04, 2009, 07:37:01 pm

Ergh, are you all sure that the 20" 856 was the "Way Big"? I have 3 20" 856's (according to the size sticker on the seat tube) and none have the rear facing bottle cages or headtube/downtube gussett shown in the pic. Was the production of 20" frames really fewer in number than the others?

- Doug :-)

Sure? Yes.

I don't think the rear facing bottle mounts is significant to size identification.

The downtube gusset is not dependant on size, it is a factory mod to the x56 frame to fix known instances of frame failures. It indicates that it is a later production frame.

No idea on production runs, but I haven't ever seen many on sale, Mediums and Larges are most common.
Seems logical as it's one extreme of the sizing range as is the Small, which is also slightly rarer, but not very desirable due to shock installation problems.

Col.

DugB · « **Reply #13 on:** October 05, 2009, 07:13:34 am »

Wow, interesting. I had only ever come across a 16" 856 (my wife's) and the 20" frames I use, so I guess I assumed she has a Small and me a Large. I had always assumed that a Way Big X56 might have the taller headtube present on the Way Big 4000 and 5000. You guys are always teaching me something :-)

- Doug

The Mont · « **Reply #14 on:** October 05, 2009, 11:35:52 am »

Quote from: DugB on October 04, 2009, 07:37:01 pm

Ergh, are you all sure that the 20" 856 was the "Way Big"? I have 3 20" 856's (according to the size sticker on the seat tube) and none have the rear facing bottle cages or headtube/downtube gussett shown in the pic. Was the production of 20" frames really fewer in number than the others?

- Doug :-)

The rear facing bottle mount lugs are just another development and show that the frame is one of the last ones made. That frame looks to be just about the same spec as the 1997 spec frames used for the 97 Beast GDT and the 657, these are later frames than the X series frames but as already pointed out they don't have the uninterrupted seat tube that only seemed to appear on the X series frames.
By the way I’m 5ft 11 and always found the medium frame to be quite roomy.

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Author Topic: 856 sizing questions (Read 6514 times)