OzM ... All mountain? DH? XC? what it can be used for? Other swing arms work?

[hyperhank]

Just a question to throw to the masses of OZ carbon owners...
What style of riding do you use you Oz mostly?
I saw the "size of your the front fork"  question and some have some pretty long travel (170MM) but really didn't think the bike was designed for (or could handle) extreme drops or downhill use.  I know the main part of the frame seems pretty bullet proof but thought the swing arm would be best used as a XC bike.  I mostly do and planning to use the Oz for Aggressive XC/All mountain some 2 to 3 foot drops, rock gardens etc  ...Is this an acceptable environment for this frame?  Lastly, I see other frame styles mentioned with the carbon swing arm, do any of these models carbon swing arms also fit/work on the OzM?  Henry

[shovelon]

I think your all mountain build idea is great. In fact I think the carbon frame was overkill for 3 inches of travel. I am running 6 inches front and rear. Optimally I would go back to 5 inches someday as I get more frail. I think 4 inches or less would not bring out the best in the bike.

Personally my biggest fear is at the headtube, which I think the carbon part is great, but I have reservations about the alum insert ovaling at the headset. I have an annoying creak there, and I think the lower cup is rocking at the press fit. I have a bead on a deep cup headset, the same as I put into my 957 which definately had a loose lower cup.

I have my front and rear shocks set for 4 foot drops and it handles it fine. Extreme drops, no way.

With that said, I can say that if I did an epic ride, it would be on my Oz with a cushy saddle. Second would be my short travel bikes.

Terry

[Simon]

Lastly, I see other frame styles mentioned with the carbon swing arm, do any of these models carbon swing arms also fit/work on the OzM?  Henry

No except the evo carbon swingarm is exactly the same arm.
I have adapted an evo aluminium s/arm to fit (bit stiffer with no weight gain) but its a lot of work.

Simon.

[jazclrint]

To me, the bike was built to be a full on, fast as hell, climb like a banshee XC race bike.  If you look at the stock stem/seatpost/handlebar you'll see the classic riding position of the time (more up right now).  Now, I believe it had 4.5" of travel in the back stock and a claimed (optimistic) 3" in the fork.  The rear was and still is a lot of travel for a full on XC bike.  But it is a New England bread bike (where I live and ride) and this could explain the travel.  Either way you could build it as a blazing XC bike, but with a shock upgrade I have just over 5" in the back, and with a 4" travel fork I imagine it would make a great Trail/epic/mild freeride bike.  Something Like Trek's Fuel EX.
Just my 2 cents.
Rich

[Colin]

My current Oz makes a great XC ride for the wilds of Beds, Bucks and Northants here in the UK, <GRIN> (mostly bridleways, forest trails and some ridge riding and descents).
I'm planning (and slowly building) an Oz with more travel at the back, expect 5" and maybe a bit more, and a 6" Maverick fork up front but I expect I'll scare myself before I ever use it to it's full potential! It's mainly to raise the front end up a bit, as Rich says the stance is fairly flat as standard and more suited to XC.

  Lastly, I see other frame styles mentioned with the carbon swing arm, do any of these models carbon swing arms also fit/work on the OzM?  Henry

My 4000se has got the identical carbon rear swing arm as the Oz's and I have bottomed the NR-4 out many a time without any issues and I weigh 90Kg! The only other carbon swing arm is the x57 style with a strut and that is completely different and not compatible.

Bottom line is that, yes, I'm sure there are better bikes out there for massive drops and Alpine style stuff and also probably better all round Mountain and XC bikes (I've got my eye on getting a Whyte 46 one day....) but as a reasonably priced second hand ride, I can't think of anything better from that period.

I think if I was going to build the best possible K2 All Mountain/Freeride bike, I'd go for the Disco Monkey Evo frame.

Col.

[kiwi]

epic...unless it was a really rough one you already have the perfect bike for that terry...the shiny one....

[jeffhop]

i would say the oz is the perfect all day epic ride bike that can easily handle enduro`s and marathons and i dont think it would be outclassed in an xc race if it was fitted with lightweight bits, mines got 5 inches of travel front and back and i love it to bits 

[hyperhank]

"Personally my biggest fear is at the headtube, which I think the carbon part is great, but I have reservations about the alum insert ovaling at the headset. I have an annoying creak there, and I think the lower cup is rocking at the press fit. I have a bead on a deep cup headset, the same as I put into my 957 which definately had a loose lower cup."

Hey Terry,  What deep cup headset did you use?  I am thinking about a FSA PIG DH pro deep cup but I believe I may have to rheem out the tube a little to accept the deeper cup tubes..22mm each end. Did you have to do this or did they press in all the way without any additional head tube work?  Henry

[jeffhop]

terry have you thought about using an azonic headlock rather than a star nut to tighten everything down up front?
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=567
one of them should make the front end a lot more solid.  just a thought.

[shovelon]

"Personally my biggest fear is at the headtube, which I think the carbon part is great, but I have reservations about the alum insert ovaling at the headset. I have an annoying creak there, and I think the lower cup is rocking at the press fit. I have a bead on a deep cup headset, the same as I put into my 957 which definately had a loose lower cup."

Hey Terry,  What deep cup headset did you use?  I am thinking about a FSA PIG DH pro deep cup but I believe I may have to rheem out the tube a little to accept the deeper cup tubes..22mm each end. Did you have to do this or did they press in all the way without any additional head tube work?  Henry

Henry, I did have to remove reduce the lower to 22 mm on the lower. The upper pressed in just fine. I used the FSA orbit extreme pro deep cup, which are no longer made, but still available at some distributers.

I just bought an Acros deep cup which is made in Germany, for my Oz.

Terry

[shovelon]

terry have you thought about using an azonic headlock rather than a star nut to tighten everything down up front?
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=567
one of them should make the front end a lot more solid.  just a thought.

Oooooh, I like that! Would certainly stiffen it up. My Maverick actually has that style of bolt, but my MegaAir forks with alum steerers will benefit greatly.

Thanks for that,
Terry

[Luke]

terry have you thought about using an azonic headlock rather than a star nut to tighten everything down up front?
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=567
one of them should make the front end a lot more solid.  just a thought.

Oooooh, I like that! Would certainly stiffen it up. My Maverick actually has that style of bolt, but my MegaAir forks with alum steerers will benefit greatly.

Thanks for that,
Terry

Hi, I hate to pee on your bonfire, but clamping down on your stem and the rotating part of the headset is really going to hurt the bearings and slow (stop) you steering before it helps keep the cups in place.
Glue cups in place; it's so much easier.

My 5500 is my daily commuting hack, XT running gear, Hope brakes, SID XL (the 100mm double crown one) fork, stock NR4, supermarket knobblys and mega DH tubes. 15KG and MINIMUM maintenance

My daily commute is what keeps me (in)sane, it involves a 850M altitude drop in the morning on scary rocky stuff, and a 2 hour climb in the evening on gravel track... time to meditate.

Never a ride home goes by without my appreciating the single pivot, super reactive geometry.
It's too floppy to race XC, but that same flexy frame means you can spend hours and hours in the saddle.

(I pulled a Ferris Beuler the other day, 130km OFF road in the mountains! Fantastic! My wife couldn't understand how I could be so tired from my "normal commute home")

There is nothing that comes close. They were so ahead of their time, someone's got to start remaking them with HMF...

[hyperhank]

"Personally my biggest fear is at the headtube, which I think the carbon part is great, but I have reservations about the alum insert ovaling at the headset. I have an annoying creak there, and I think the lower cup is rocking at the press fit. I have a bead on a deep cup headset, the same as I put into my 957 which definately had a loose lower cup."

Hey Terry,  What deep cup headset did you use?  I am thinking about a FSA PIG DH pro deep cup but I believe I may have to rheem out the tube a little to accept the deeper cup tubes..22mm each end. Did you have to do this or did they press in all the way without any additional head tube work?  Henry

Henry, I did have to remove reduce the lower to 22 mm on the lower. The upper pressed in just fine. I used the FSA orbit extreme pro deep cup, which are no longer made, but still available at some distributers.

I just bought an Acros deep cup which is made in Germany, for my Oz.

Terry

Hi Terry.. whats the depth of the sleeves/collars on the acros?  let me know how it goes on the installation on your Oz, reaming needed etc....  Where did you get your Orbit extreme pro deep cups and how is it working for you..  I have been reading that for some people that the deep cup solution did not solve the creaking problem so I may disassemble headset, lube cups and re-assemble and see how that works.  Don't think this will solve the problem as the cups went in pretty easily on the first go around so I am sure age and use has stretched the headtube.. will look real close for cracks as others have mentioned here of having them in their head tubes...  Thanks for your input... Henry

[shovelon]

Henry, the FSA orbit Xtreme deep cup set is out of production now. But a google search found some parts houses that still have them for about $90.

I will measure the cup on the Acros set tonight. As far as your cups going in too easily, I agree. My 957 in fact would rock front to back, and make an annoying sqeak. My know-it-all bike mechanic shot some WD-40 on it and the sqeak ceased. When apart, he showed me how he could wiggle it while still in place.

Anyway it is not too hard to trim a little off the cup to fit your head tube if necessary. If you are good with a pencil and a hacksaw, you could do an adequate job.

I have been looking at those Crank Bros. steel headsets, and came to the conclusion that the cup walls are way too thin, and too flexy to do any good to prevent ovaling of the lower headset seat in an alum. frame. They just don't look right as the cup itself is part of the bearing which may not last. Any opinions on this???

Terry

[shovelon]

Henry,

The Acros deep cup sleeves are is 22 mm. I should be able to do the install next week.

Terry