Pinch bolt torque and delam advice.. wheel off or wheel on?

[hyperhank]

Hey Gang,  New OzM owner here and starting to build her up.  Have run into some problems.  Got the frame off Ebay and after receiving I tested the pivot area for play...there seemed to be a little movement and with closer inspection the front drive side pivot drop out was loose.  So I removed the swing arm and sure enough the dropout wiggled in and out about eighth inch or so...  Sooo I after reading some posts here I knew it was time to work the rest of the dropout out of the swingarm to do a proper repair...  planning to use West System epoxy with High density adhesive filler and slow cure hardener..  also using the aluminum etch and treatment coating for the dropout.  BTW, the front derailer post basically came off by hand too!  Frame was listed as a 8.5/9 out of ten!
Questions are:
Anything I should be aware of before I move ahead?
I am assuming that other delam is in the offing since two cases have reared their head...  comments?
I have received and installed a pivot system rebuild kit from K2. the torque setting is said to be 250 Inch Lbs which I believe is approx 20 Ft lbs on the axle bolt but what should be the torque on the pinch bolts?  I know the instructions indicate that with the shock disconnected the swing arm should slowly drop but with the wheel on???  That seems pretty heavy and would have to be real tight to me..actually when I tightened the main pivot bolt to close to the 20 lbs the swing arm was dropping slow and smooth (with no wheel on) and the pinch bolts had not been tightened down at all yet..So am I doing something wrong?  I have backed off the pivot bolt so there is no play and the swing are drops fairly quick and smooth w/o the rear wheel installed.  Do not want to tighten down the pinch bolts till I hear from the group.  I have a couple of Diso Monkeys and know that if you crank too hard then the pinch bolt part of the swing are will crack!
Simon, I would love to get more info on your pivot bearing retro fit instructions and I tried to get OP's decreaking techniques but could not download -  can anyone forward them to me or point me in the right direction?  Lastly, when hitting the frame with bare knuckle on the downtube near the water battle carrier I hear a little vibration..can't see any cracks so really beginning to wonder if I should get ready to ship this back or is that typical of the OzM with its creaks and squeaks.  Appreciate all input...thanks  Henry   

[Simon]

I always adjusted the pivot pinch bolts without the wheel fitted,usually they are just lightly nipped up but make sure there is some thread locker on the bolts to ensure they don't work loose.
For sealed bearing info checkout all the info now uploaded and stickied at top of the topic's page.

Simon.

[shovelon]

I always do it wheel off, but the best is the sealed bearing conversion. Be careful if you go sealed bearing, you may have a permenant smile after that.

I reglued my drive side frame insert within the last month. No more creaking in that area. Good observation on the front shifter tube. I have never checked that.

I have not had anything else come loose, but my headtube makes the most annoying creaking. So I am going to install a deep cup headset just in case I wore out the lower cut seat. You may want to check that.

Terry

[Old Proflexer]

I tighten the pinch bolts with the wheel off - I'm surprised that the arm will not move freely with pinchbolts loose on your frame.  It may be that the components are a little snugger on the axle cups.  Do the cups move freely when just inserted in the swingarm and no cross bolt? and or do you maybe have a pinched quad ring or two? - they can be testy little creatures to get properly seated when reassembly on a stock unit.  Used to drive me crazy on my frames -

every now and then i get a creak in the main pivot area and over time it's been the pedal, crank, my shoe, bottom bracket that once went dry on the right side, and the mysterious one i get every now and then that goes away when i cross a stream and the area gets a little wet.  i may have something working loose as time goes on in one of my frames and just need to get in there and rebond but i've learned that the less i get in to the main pivot and play around, the more time i have to ride.

we've got to keep in mind that these frames are pretty much a decade old with usage, carbon does fatigue and even the best of epoxy bonds can fail

OP

[hyperhank]

Hi Gang,  Thanks for the replies.  The arm does drop with the pinch bolts loose and I believe the o-rings are in their proper place though I did pinch and sever one on my first attempt.  I am just a little puzzled on the directions for the axle bolt..It said 250 In Lbs (approx 20Ft lbs) and when I get close to that torque the arm does start to drop slow (have resistance) even with the pinch bolts loose...   I am guessing that I should snug up the axle bolt to no play and easy smooth motion of the swingarm and don't worry so much about the specs on the torque and then snug up the pinch bolts to a slow smooth drop of the arm and then just keep an eye on things.  Any follow up on this is always welcome and I have some other questions but they are a new topic..
Parts are coming in and the build is under way!  BTW, Simon thanks for the repost on the sealed bearings.  can I assume this assembly works on the OzM frame?  The biggest challenge would be the fabrication of the axle.  I think all the other parts would be easily available.  I have disco monkeys with the needle bearing assembly..wonder if there is a way for that system to work on the Oz?   thanks again!  Henry

[shovelon]

The "x-rings"(rubber O-rings) are available at McMaster.com.

The axle bolt is the big sucker that goes thru the frame and should be tightened as hard as possible. The way I do it is to pinch the opposite bearing until the cup won't spin, and then wrench it as tight as you possibly can. Then loosen the pinch bolt and work the swingarm drop. The cups should never move or disaster will follow.

The fabrication of the axle should not be as much of a chore as having the swingarm reamed out to fit the bearings.

Let me know if you have a tool for reaming the swingarm.

Terry

Terry

[Simon]

 Simon thanks for the repost on the sealed bearings.  can I assume this assembly works on the OzM frame?  The biggest challenge would be the fabrication of the axle.  I think all the other parts would be easily available.  I have disco monkeys with the needle bearing assembly..wonder if there is a way for that system to work on the Oz?   thanks again!  Henry

Yes this is for a 4500/5500 and Oz frame only

Simon.

[Old Proflexer]

a sealed bearing conversion is well beyond my capacity in my garage full of woodworking equipment -
i couldn't even imagine trying something like that. 

my best is to just keep them running as close to stock as possible ('cept for the disc upgrades)

OP

[Colin]

Hi Gang,  Thanks for the replies.  The arm does drop with the pinch bolts loose and I believe the o-rings are in their proper place though I did pinch and sever one on my first attempt.  I am just a little puzzled on the directions for the axle bolt..It said 250 In Lbs (approx 20Ft lbs) and when I get close to that torque the arm does start to drop slow (have resistance) even with the pinch bolts loose...   I am guessing that I should snug up the axle bolt to no play and easy smooth motion of the swingarm and don't worry so much about the specs on the torque and then snug up the pinch bolts to a slow smooth drop of the arm and then just keep an eye on things.  Any follow up on this is always welcome and I have some other questions but they are a new topic..
Parts are coming in and the build is under way!  BTW, Simon thanks for the repost on the sealed bearings.  can I assume this assembly works on the OzM frame?  The biggest challenge would be the fabrication of the axle.  I think all the other parts would be easily available.  I have disco monkeys with the needle bearing assembly..wonder if there is a way for that system to work on the Oz?   thanks again!  Henry

Hi,
It's deffo wheel off. (and the shock off as well)
Please refer to the RK008 EVO Pivot Rebuild Kit instructions:
k2bikes.com/PDF/techLibrary/serviceManuals/98evo.pdf
also this doc:
http://idriders.com/proflex/files/Pivot%20overhaul.doc

Either do them equally, or do one until the swing arm drops slowly, then back it off 1/4 turn, do the other one the same and then re-tighten the first one the 1/4 turn. It should still drop smoothly or maybe just a fine tweak will be needed.

Col.

[hyperhank]

The "x-rings"(rubber O-rings) are available at McMaster.com.

The axle bolt is the big sucker that goes thru the frame and should be tightened as hard as possible. The way I do it is to pinch the opposite bearing until the cup won't spin, and then wrench it as tight as you possibly can. Then loosen the pinch bolt and work the swingarm drop. The cups should never move or disaster will follow.

The fabrication of the axle should not be as much of a chore as having the swingarm reamed out to fit the bearings.

Let me know if you have a tool for reaming the swingarm.

Terry

Hi Terry,  thanks for the info..  I am going to give the bushing system a try before I convert to sealed bearing but if I do go for the conversion I will get in touch with you.  Since I did pinch a seal/O-ring  on the first rebuild attempt would you happen to know the McMaster part or Catalog number..always good to have spares!  Have completed assembly and taken her on a few good rides and swingarm is working great.  There is some creaking  but not real sure if its the swingarm but when I got caught in the rain on sunday and I noticed the whole bike was very quiet...hmmm..  my cable cover ends are metal so I think I am going to convert to the plastic ends and do the quick 5 minute lube/check of the swingarm..as mentioned elsewhere in the forum I am considering the deep cup Pig DH pro headset so that maybe should narrow down the creak and squeak... really startin to like the bike..hope I can quiet her down..   Henry

Terry

[shovelon]

Henry, they are called "Double-Seal ring". You would have to measure the O.D. and thickness, and pick the appropriate dash number or use thier guide.

 Page 3394 in book 114 shows all the parts, Page 3382 starts the sizing if you want to go that way.

Terry