Author Topic: K2 5000 frame info request (Read 6340 times)

kondilemma · « **on:** February 15, 2007, 01:11:21 pm »

Hi there K2/Proflex gurus-

What can you tell me about this style of frame?
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2420576020100570517TJZKll

This is the same type of frame as the beloved OZ, correct? What other models share this design?
This is the easier of the Proflex/K2 lineup for rear shock replacement, in contrast to the strut style bikes--correct? No need for adapters--maybe a bit of dremel-work depending on the shock.
Does this frame use the same main pivot kit as the strut style, i.e. the 857,957?
Everyone has their favourite shock manufacturer--what works well on this frame as far as 1) fitment and 2) performance?

I'd love to hear your opinion.
-brad

(I'd also like to be smart enough to know how to drop in a thumbnail instead of the link)

Carbon_Angus · « **Reply #1 on:** February 15, 2007, 01:53:25 pm »

it's the same "type" but the Oz, or 4500, 5500 were carbon fiber frame. and i am assuming old style bearings because of the carbon swing~arm(?) the ones with aluminum swingarms on the EVO had sealed bearings(?)

The frame stye here is referred to as the EVO (i can't tell you what it stands for, if it's an acronym or what.)

it's really a great trail bike albeit with XC front geometry.

it has a cantilever beam rear as opposed to the strut of the world cup frames. this makes it less prone to blowing rear shocks and is much more adaptable to a wider range of aftermarket varieties of shocks, but i think most will agree the strut rear is stiffer

other guys have more knowledge about the shocks.

build it and enjoy it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

ps working links are just fine hehehe

shovelon · « **Reply #2 on:** February 16, 2007, 01:59:40 am »

I think Carbon Angus is right about all carbon swingarms having composite bushings. The main pivot bushings are indeed the same as the x57 series. The later alum swingarm evos had sealed bearings.

A lot of different shocks will fit. My favorite are air shocks. I like the Manitou Swingers, Fox DHX, Risse. You must watch out because the upper frame mount is narrower than the carbon frames. Usually some clearancing is required. But I think Risse is a direct fit.

My take on swingarm stiffness is this. My strut bikes are stiffer yes. The non strut carbon swingarm is flexy, but less noticable to me with a long travel shock, absorbing the flex throughout the extra travel. Coupled with Simon's sealed bearing conversion, the increased freedom has virtually eliminated all indications of flexing. I do get the sensation of wheel drift on ruts, which is quickly absorbed by wheel travel.

Enough of my ramblings. I think it is a good frame.

Terry

RhinoDave · « **Reply #3 on:** February 16, 2007, 09:19:35 am »

Even with several different MTB's I still ride my EVO the most. It is just a comfortable and predictable ride. I swapped out the stock Noleen rear shock for a Fox Vanilla R just after I got the frame and just recently switched to a six way coil swinger. I think with a stable platform rear shock, the frame is great. I think that the last couple of years for the EVO's the carbon swingarm did have bearings in them although I could very likely be wrong. They were the EVO4's. My bike is an EVO3 with the aluminum swing arm. Current suspension setup is 8.5" i to i with 2.5" stroke to get 6.75" of travel in the back and I just put the 145mm Nixon on the front. I've only test ridden the fork around the neighborhood but I hope to get to a trail sometime this week. Handles well but feels a little tall.

Matno · « **Reply #4 on:** February 16, 2007, 01:09:38 pm »

Terry is right on the money in his description. The carbon swingarms are a little flexy, but the overall ride is smooth and controlled. I've never ridden the aluminum swingarmed EVO, but I'd hazard a guess that the rear tire "tracks" a little tighter (like when the bike magazines say a frame "rides like it's on rails"). I've been riding my two 5000s (exactly like the one in the picture) since early 2000, and I love them.

These frames are pretty bombproof. Very strong for an XC frame, but still light enough to be a decent XC build. Strong enough for serious trail riding and even some extreme stuff (I have Kranked 2, and there are some HUGE jumps done on EVO frames - like 20+ feet). I drop mine 3-4 feet on a regular basis with no problem (except my fork bushings, which are worn). I took my pivot apart last week for routine maintenance, and the bushings still looked like they were brand new.

About the only real downside to the carbon swingarms is that you have to add an adapter if you want to use disc brakes (which I highly recommend). Several people here (including myself) have made homemade ones, which is not too difficult and works perfectly. Here are a couple of picture of mine built up.

(I've since switched the rear shock from the pictured Stratos Helix Pro to a Manitou Swinger Air).

kondilemma · « **Reply #5 on:** February 17, 2007, 04:02:54 am »

Thanks for the info, everyone. Hey Matno--is that a Medium frame in your photos? or Large?

This is a medium frame--I'm 5'7", 150 lbs soaking wet and like to keep my wheels planted nicely on the terra firma--any airtime would be completely accidental! But it is good to know it can take some good drops--maybe I could develop a taste for flight!

What would be the proper i2i and stroke for an upgrade to the current SmartShock?

And here's the usual question--what kind of travel can I expect from it? 4"?

If replacing the shock with another coil over--what spring weight would be ideal? Someone had submitted this link previously:

http://www.santacruzbicycles.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=25_72

That's a price tough to beat, if they still have stock.

Something with Propedal would be a great upgrade too--will have to keep an eye out...maybe I could sell the '96 Civic...hmmmmmm

Matno · « **Reply #6 on:** February 17, 2007, 05:22:13 am »

That's a Large in the pics. I also have an identical medium. Only difference is that the top tube is a little shorter on the medium. At 5'7", I'd say the medium is perfect for you. (I'm 5'11" and the medium also works for me, but it's just a tad shorter than I like for actual trail riding. It's nicer for doing certain "stunts" though...)

As for spring weight, it's hard to say. I weigh about the same as you (I'm 150 in full gear), and I've used different spring weights with good results. I had a 500lb spring on my original smartshock, which was a bit too stiff for my taste. I switched to a Stratos Helix Pro with a 500lb progressive rate spring, which was also too stiff so I swapped the spring for a Mountainsprings 400lb linear spring. That one was okay, but I still wanted something lighter, so I got a 400lb Stratos progressive spring. That one is a little lighter than I like (the "progressive" springs start at about 100lbs LESS than their stated number, but then "ramp up" after the first little bit of travel). Overall, I'd have to say that if I were to go with another coil shock, I'd stick with either the linear 400lb or try a progressive 450lb shock. They can vary between manufacturers, so take that with a grain of salt.

As for eye to eye and stroke length...
Stock eye to eye on these frames is 8.25", which is difficult to find. Stratos used to make ones that fit directly, don't know if they still do. Risse makes a couple of decent air shocks that fit (I currently have a Risse Astro 5 on my medium frame and it's great). Mine gives me the original "stock" 4" of travel, but I believe the newer ones may be closer to 5"...? I now have a Manitou Swinger Air 3-way, which is great. I love the ease of changing the spring weight with a pump. Only required a minor amount of dremeling to my swingarm mounts to make it fit. They are available in the right size too, because Trek used that size for its Liquid frames for a couple of years. I think Manitou's SPV system is slightly superior to Fox's Propedal too.

Oh, and for travel, just multiply whatever the stroke length of the shock is by 2.7. That's not a perfect calculation (because it's not a perfectly linear curve), but it will get you within about .05" of the right number. My Swinger has a 2.0" stroke, so it gives me about 5.4" of travel at the rear axle.

shovelon · « **Reply #7 on:** February 17, 2007, 07:02:21 am »

This Swinger shock may work awesome if you are so inclined. 8.375" i2i with 2.5" of stroke. That would give you 6.75" of rear travel. Right now I am getting 6" travel from my 2.25 travel.Swinger.http://cgi.ebay.com/Brand-New-Manitou-3-Way-Swinger-Rear-Shock_W0QQitemZ250084272291QQihZ015QQcategoryZ42317QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Terry

Matno · « **Reply #8 on:** February 17, 2007, 12:02:49 pm »

That's should actually be an 8.25" i2i since it's from a Trek Liquid and it's a 2004 model shock. Perfect for a K2 5000 frame (with minor modification). Looks exactly like mine, and mine was supposed to be a 2.5" stroke, but mine is actually only 2". Either stroke length would work fine - especially with the tunability of the SPV system...

wylyman · « **Reply #9 on:** February 17, 2007, 12:02:51 pm »

Hey Matno is that Arizona in your picture. Ive moved from Pheonix to MT and am missing the warm weather right now! I ride a 4000 and put a risse astro5 on it last summer and love it. I would say the best upgrade I did was Avid mechanical disk brakes and Kenda Nevegal tires. Those tires are awesome! I saved myself $100 and made the disk adapter myself. It bolts on without drilling the frame. I simply shaped a piece on my belt sander to fit tightly into the oval dropout keeps it locked in place. Its easy to do would defenetly recommend disks.

shovelon · « **Reply #10 on:** February 17, 2007, 03:29:51 pm »

Quote

Even with several different MTB's I still ride my EVO the most. It is just a comfortable and predictable ride. I swapped out the stock Noleen rear shock for a Fox Vanilla R just after I got the frame and just recently switched to a six way coil swinger. I think with a stable platform rear shock, the frame is great. I think that the last couple of years for the EVO's the carbon swingarm did have bearings in them although I could very likely be wrong. They were the EVO4's. My bike is an EVO3 with the aluminum swing arm. Current suspension setup is 8.5" i to i with 2.5" stroke to get 6.75" of travel in the back and I just put the 145mm Nixon on the front. I've only test ridden the fork around the neighborhood but I hope to get to a trail sometime this week. Handles well but feels a little tall.

Rhinodave, that is a nice looking bike. Have you ridden it with the shock and fork yet? It just oozes cushy.

Terry

RhinoDave · « **Reply #11 on:** February 18, 2007, 12:50:51 am »

Thanks for the compliments. I've managed to get several rides in on the rear shock and have managed to get it dialed in pretty much the way I want it. I had a 300 lb coil on it orginally and had to switch to a 400 lb spring to reduce sag with out sacrificing travel. I've used it with both a Manitou X-vert with 105mm of travel(preferred) and a Rock Shox air Duke with 100 mm of travel up front. The Duke was lighter but the Manitou cushier, especially over small bumps. When I switched from the Fox Vanilla R on the back (7.7875 i to i) to the swinger (8.5 i to i) the steering got a little more twitchy than I was used to so I decided to go to the longer travel Nixon. It's not that the steering was bad, I just prefer a more stable ride feel. Some first impressions were that I was able to set up a much softer ride with more suspension action without pedal induced bob. I may even switch back to the 300 lb spring. Both the orginal Noleen and the Fox had pedal bob to the point where I put much heavier springs on them to reduce bob. This resulted in a much stiffer ride that handled big hits okay but made the bike ride more like a hard tail on small bumps. I do a lot of back road riding to get from one trail system to another and pedal bob drove me crazy. All I've done with the Nixon is set it up with the recommended factory settings for my weight and ride it up and down the neighborhood streets. Too much snow to do anything else. When I first put the swinger on the bike my neighbors thought I was nuts because I kept riding over the curbs at the corner while I was adjusting the SPV settings and rebound. It was hard for me to realize I didn't have to lift my butt off the saddle everytime I hit the curbs. More details when the weather cooperates.

Matno · « **Reply #12 on:** February 18, 2007, 06:01:41 am »

Quote

Hey Matno is that Arizona in your picture... I would say the best upgrade I did was Avid mechanical disk brakes and Kenda Nevegal tires... I saved myself $100 and made the disk adapter myself. It bolts on without drilling the frame. I simply shaped a piece on my belt sander to fit tightly into the oval dropout keeps it locked in place.

Not AZ, but close - St. George Utah. That's the edge of Zion's National Park in the distant background. We were riding Gooseberry Mesa - possible the most fun technical "playground" anywhere in the world... I do miss the weather out there. My brother in law currently LIVES in Moab. His wife called me yesterday just to let me know that it was sunny, clear, 60 degrees, and he rode Slick Rock that morning in shorts and a T-shirt... Nice of her to let me know...

The Avid discs are indeed an awesome upgrade. I was actually pretty happy with my V-brakes when I lived in dry Utah, but after moving to the slightly muddier East Coast, the discs became a life-saver (or at least a wheel saver, plus they save my ears from hearing that sickening sound of grit grinding my rims away...)

It sounds like your homemade disc adaptor is just like mine. A nice tightly-fitted oval for the dropout and an outer plate for the actual mounting plate. No problems after almost 4 years of use.

wylyman · « **Reply #13 on:** February 18, 2007, 01:42:17 pm »

I had an interesting adventure in Moab once. I was moving to AZ from MT with some friends and we made a detour to moab. I had never been to a Desert let alone go biking in one. I decided to take a ride (alone) on the poison spider trail. After a quick look at a map in one of the local bike shops I was ready to go. I thought It was maybe a 5 mile loop. Completely unaware of desert riding I jumped on my recently bought GT LTS and a 16 oz water bottle, no map, no tire patches, nothing! Well I found out how easy it is to get lost in that terrain. Was having a blast riding the slick rock mounds and got completely off course. Well soon it was getting dark and I got two flats(dang thorns). Well long story short my friends called search and rescue and was found wandering completely dehydrated and freezing my ass off at 5am. It was desert learning experience! I go on all rides very well prepared from now on.

wylyman · « **Reply #14 on:** February 18, 2007, 01:58:48 pm »

Oh yeah, I lost my New GT in the desert that day which led in desperate need of another bike. So I had been shoping around, but short on cash no bike. So one day about 8 mos later a co-worker tells me he has this bike he wants to sell and hasnt even hit the dirt with it. Interested I asked him to bring it to work with him. It was a brand new shiny red k2 4000 with these funky Hed wheels. I test rode It and decided to buy it from him, payments of course. I rode it for a while thinking THIS thing corners like shit! Turns out it was those flimsy Hed wheels. Well replacing those with cheap used mavics from a bike shop made all the difference and am still riding it nearly 10 years later!

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Author Topic: K2 5000 frame info request (Read 6340 times)