Shocks / upgrades (856 & Vector)

[Ziggy]

I've just finished the build of my 856, having dreamed of this day since 1996!    I've gone for 9speed XT (not exactly retro), but got some propah shiny vectors (& new elastomers all round) so it still looks nice & old skool.

Anyway, back to the point; I'm not all that impressed with the ride I'm getting - the elastomers seem too hard at the mo.  Are they likely to improve?  I've barely ridden it yet, so I'm still hopeful...

Or am I ultimately going to be better off going for complete new shocks?  Any recommendations / places to get em / sizes to look for etc?

Cheers

[Colin]

IMHO.........

Lose the MCU's and replace them with springs - See Callum from RapidDescent for help on this.

In my experience they are too hard in the UK climate and just get harder as they age, they are a rare commodity these days and cost more to replace than a one off spring replacement.

They limit the travel more than springs do and overdamp the ODS unless you drill them out.

An MCU equipped bike is a "bump absorber", a coil spring bike is a true "Full-Susser".

Bear in mind that anyone who provided you with "New" MCU's has probably had them sitting on a shelf somewhere for up to 10 years!

Hey! I've just realised! I've got a full set of "New" MCU's to sell to anyone who wants them. only used for 6 months and then replaced with Springs!

I don't think my ODS equipped Vectors compare at all well with my Crosslinks for plushness and response. But I just use my XP-X for road work now so the firmer ride is fine.

Col

[micah]

My elastomers simply melted while the bike hung in the garage... and I wasn't impressed with the coil spring I used to replace them, so I ended up going with an air-filled shock from Risse in the rear.

http://www.risseracing.com/airshocks.shtml

[Colin]

I agree  that an air shock would probably be even better, not that I've tried one yet!

Particularly as they're often very light compared to a Coil and Oil Shock.

Col.

[Ziggy]

The new elastomers are genuinely new stock - from Slim on this very forum.  I was just wondering if anyone had found that new elastomers softened up at all (that's mainly aimed at those of you who have had your bikes since new I guess!).

Calum hadn't had any of his springs in for months (though typically he has again now!) so they weren't an option.  How different does anyone think they'd be to good elastomers?  & how much difference again to the likes of the risses?  If I end up upgrading, I might as well go the whole hog if there's gonna be a significant difference...

Cheers.

[shovelon]

A word of warning in regard to the Risse genesis for the front fork. Risse really damps these hard, too hard. Unless you can afford to send them back numerous times until satisfaction. It will be costly.

My last return, They told me that there was a faulty transfer port. It had been drilled to small. I reckon that they ream it bigger for the front, and forgot to do it on mine. I bought a vector shock from banger and they discovered the same condition on his. I may still drain the oil and put in some 2 wt.

All is well now, but there is no service center in the UK.

Terry

[kiwi]

the elastomers wont change with age.if you have a vector the performance is dramatically  improved if you replace the old black seals with teh white "extreme seal" (or normal crosslinkk seals) or if you pull the fork to bits and grease the seals every three or four rides.If you warm the elastomers up a bit they will soften but will obviously go harder again.I dont know but maybe some softer elastomers would be good.I know I was quite happy with the performance of my extreme sealed vector but i tried two or three sets of MCU before i was happy.A crosslink withits proper coil spring is heaps more progressive though.The elastomers seem to rush through the travel and then stop.However a mcu vector is much much lighter than a noleenand coil  sprung crosslink

[rapiddescent]

I've had a poll on the RDS website for a while and it seems that most peoples MCU's have gone hard over time.

solutions:
+ risse genesis do proflex x56 attachments - but I'm not sure they do the front shock, correct me if I'm wrong.  These are fabulous shocks but quite expensive.  The air shock version can easily get the bike built up to a sub 25lbs bike.

+ RDS (this is my hobby) makes COR springs for the 856 and we sell front and rear springs.  the kits come with new CNC'd caps and a coil spring - with the front one being 'vari-pitch' (for those sad enough to know what I'm on about).

+ new MCUs.  hard to find nowadays - we do MCUs for earlier bikes but have never made any for the 856 because the springs are so much better.

+ noleen made a short version of the NR-2 for the 856 but these are very rare and impossible to find.  One may come up on ebay but I've been looking and haven't seen one for a year

+ Girvin GDT was a shock that came out on the 757 and the X-series bikes (UK) - it's a black painted ODS shock with a coil spring.

callum
rds

[shovelon]

I've had a poll on the RDS website for a while and it seems that most peoples MCU's have gone hard over time.

solutions:
+ risse genesis do proflex x56 attachments - but I'm not sure they do the front shock, correct me if I'm wrong.  These are fabulous shocks but quite expensive.  The air shock version can easily get the bike built up to a sub 25lbs bike.


callum
rds

Yes, Risse does make genesis shocks for both the Vector and crosslinks, each cost $199 US. The Vector genesis is shorter and weighs aprox 230 grams.:-)

[Ziggy]

Cheers guys...  I'll probably give one of your springs a go Callum.  Any idea on options for a non-ODS Vector with the built in stem (that'd be a vector 1 I guess?) though?

Looks like it'd take a fairly standard shock but I doubt I'm that lucky!

Just been out for a ride, & while it's great I'm definately not seeing all the travel / performance...

Cheers  

[kiwi]

Just been out for a ride, & while it's great I'm definately not seeing all the travel / performance...
Cheers  

sounds like an MCU set up at its best.You need springs all right.If you do go the risse route take note of the factthat the shock needs different valving for the front.Remind risse of that!There have been at least two instances of that on this board recently

[rotorhead]

after trying out a lot of different elastomer setups and fiddling with the 'ods', i gave up on it. every time the temperature dropped below 60F or so, it may as well not have suspension at all. i replaced the front with a marzocchi z2 atom bomb IIRC, and for the rear i went with a stratos helix. the difference is night and day! it is a little heavier, but not by much, and still seems lighter than other newer bikes i've played around with. i also un-XC'ed the bike a little with a titec hellbent riser bar, some chunky oury grips, a ritchey stem that was a little shorter than stock, and avid sd (2.0?) v-brakes. when going with the v-brakes, having a 90 degree pulley for the rear helps tremendously. otherwise, the brake cable would bump my calf on every pedal stroke. i don't remember the brand of pulley, but it's very similar to the derailleur pulley from avid (rollamajig?). my only gripe about this setup is getting to the air adjust for the stratus, now located under the seatpost bracing. my shock pump just won't fit in there without taking off the rear wheel and extending the travel fully.

[Ziggy]

Hokay...

The back's not actually that bad - the front's definately worse, so it's got to be sorted first.

The issue now is that it's a vector-1 ie non-ODS.  That's not all bad news though - the actual 'shock' (a pair of sticks & a bit of rubber!) is a fairly conventional layout - 185mm I2I.  BUT the eyes aren't conventional diameters.  They run on two shafts, (roughly) 12.5mm and 15mm in diameter that clamp into the upper & lower links of the fork.

So does anyone know of a shock with eyes that big?  I think 12.5's doable?  As for the 15mm one, I may have to replace the shaft with a smaller dia bolt, & make a spacer up to clamp into the lower link on the fork...  I'd rather not have to bother though if anyone knows of anything suitable out there?

Cheers

Oh, & I'm using maguras - no v-brakes to get in the way!  Or at least there won't be when I've found a rear one...

[shovelon]

Risse does make a direct fit genesis for the vector. I replaced my "stick and bumpers", and it fits perfect.

Again, the downside is the lack of service in the UK for tuning. But if you contact Josh at Risse, and tell him to tune for  90lb school girl, and make sure those transfer ports are reamed for front suspension, you may make out perfect. Miine is now, and I still have more variability for tuneing with viscosities of oil.

Or wait until IronHorse restocks heavy to extraheavy sponges. Callum at RDI may be able to help with sponges also.

Terry