Author Topic: Weight Discussion (Read 4064 times)

ChilliConCarnage · « **on:** February 25, 2005, 07:23:57 am »

My apologies if you think this subject is already worn out, but I'm very curious as to what everybody's opinion is concerning weight.

I just found an old bathroom scale while cleaning out my garage and weighed my bike for the first time. Granted, an old crappy bathroom scale is not going to be 100% accurate, but I think I got it pretty close... My EVO comes in right around 36 lbs. (You euro guys will have to translate that into "stone" or whatever you call it

.

I know from reading posts in the past that 36 lbs would be considered pretty heavy by the members of this board. Particularly to you carbon guys (my Evo is all alum.). I guess it goes without saying that somebody who buys a carbon fiber bike is going to be concerned with weight.

What I am most interested in discussing, though, is your opinions on reliability vs weight. All of the parts that I picked for my bike were chosen based on these priorities:

1) Will I break this?

2) Can I find it cheap on eBay?

3) How much does it weigh?

As you can see, weight is not the tops on my list. I’ve been out on long rides in the past and gotten a flat with the wrong pump (presta tube, Schrader only pump); I’ve had seat posts break and crank arms fall off. I’ve broken spokes and shredded bolts. And it sucked every time!

So, perhaps I’m just old and cranky, but I hate getting a mechanical 10 miles into a 20 mile ride, and end up having to walk my bike back to the car. Nothing ruins my day more than a mechanical. And I hate breaking something that I spent good money on, even though this is mountain biking. Note, I don’t race (and if I ever do, I’ll buy another bike to do it on) – my riding is all basic single-track trail adventures. Also, I'm not really that hard on my equipment; I'm an old guy with a bad back, 5'9 / 185 lbs, with only the occasional jump or drop to kick the adrenalin up a notch. (EDIT: I forgot, I am planning on using the EVO for the 24 Hours Of Adrenalin Race)

Thus, I built my latest bike big, burley, and unbreakable (or, at least, more so than bikes I’ve owned in the past). Strong rims, thick-walled tires, tubes filled with slime, burley crankset, etc… And ended up with 36 lbs. Mind you, I’m not lost on the advantages of light weight. I’ve owned an FSR and a Gary Fisher hard-tail that were nice and light. Also, I live at the base of the Cascade mountain range, so a lot of my riding includes challenging gravity to a one-on-one duel.

So, is 36 lbs too heavy? Does anybody have any suggestions on how to lighten it up a bit without sacrificing reliability and without costing a mint? What is the weight of your wheels and tires?

Eagerly awaiting your opinions……….

will · « **Reply #1 on:** February 25, 2005, 08:22:21 am »

Con Carnage,

Couldn't agree more, but... I believe you can have it both ways. (And not just by spending a billion dollars/pounds on unobtainium and carbon fiber.)

Here's my 856 experience. The 856 you see in my gallery weighs exactly 30.0 pounds. It's got mechanical disks, a crosslink fork, tube tires, at least a pound of powder paint, a bottle cage, a 24 oz die spring in back(!), and rhynolite rims.

This bike handles my 210 lbs on four foot drops without serious problems. I've broken two freehubs, but that's all.

Try eliminating your front derailleur, left side shifter & cables, and two chainrings.

Another way to knock off nearly a pound is to go with Stanley's tubeless conversion. (That's a win-win for reliability and weight.)

I figure this baby will come in at 27 lbs when I get it down to a decent spring, single speed belt drive, and tubeless tires.

As long as I live two blocks from a Dunkin Donuts, the bike is going to have to stay on a diet!

Irby · « **Reply #2 on:** February 25, 2005, 09:20:05 am »

I think alot of hype is given mass. Sure, a very light bike is nice, but what about most folk's 15-20lb gut??
I've had many rides where a superior athlete kicks butt on a heavy/old bike...only to properly address the fat and overweight people that spend alot on equipment, eat too much and then whine about their bike being too heavy. Bikes are cool, but conditioning is cooler. Just my 2 cents

shovelon · « **Reply #3 on:** February 25, 2005, 09:51:31 am »

Hi Carnage,

My carbon frame weighed 6.7 lbs. with shock and swingarm. I would bet your evo frame is no more than 1 lb. more.When all parts were mounted it weighed 25.5 lbs.

The best place for me to reduce weight on a budget is carbon bars(135 grams), lite seat and post(500 grams), Bontrager innertubes(100 grams ea.), or Stan's tubeless. Take a look at pedals, eggbeater candy sl platforms are pretty lite.

A great place to compare weights is weightweenies.com.

Have fun,

Terry

shovelon · « **Reply #4 on:** February 25, 2005, 10:04:50 am »

Looked at your bike in your gallery, NICE!. I would swap out the hubs and shock, and do the Stans conversion. Stans has some pretty nice alum rotors too.

Terry

Simon · « **Reply #5 on:** February 25, 2005, 10:07:58 am »

36lbs is very heavy, you would find most D/H bikes weigh around that mark,with sensible component choice you should achive 26 to 28lbs with an evo without sacrificing reliability,I have a carbon frame but I've riden an evo many times and from my experiance there's not much difference in weight between the two,my first stop for weight reduction would be a quality built wheelset, properly built these can reduce weight and more importantly rotating weight,these I'd purchase new to custom spec,also get kevlar beaded tyres to aid weight reduction without sacrificing reliability,then I'd look into fork choice (around 100mm travel would probabaly suit you best) at around 4 to 4 1/2lbs which you could look into purchasing s/hand,then I'd look into getting an air shock there very reliable these days,Risse springs to mind,after these major components then would start looking at cranks,stems, seatposts,bars etc there's a massive massive choice out there and quality brands are pretty reliable these days,so much to list not enough time to type,
bottom line with carefull component choice you can drastically reduce weight without sacrificing reliability and you'll notice a massive difference (for the better) out on the trails.
Simon.

ChilliConCarnage · « **Reply #6 on:** February 25, 2005, 11:07:02 am »

Some good suggestions so far - I think Irby hit it on the head with me: my riding weight could easily go down 20 pounds if I went on a diet!

Will/Shovelon: I've heard good and bad about Stan's No-Tubes conversion; do you use it? Do you like it? Are there any drawbacks?

I already have a carbon fiber riser bar (Raceface NEXT), and I've broken a carbon seatpost, so I'm leary about that. But judging from the suggestions so far, I'll probably try to lighten the wheelset. Has anybody weighed their wheels here?

I love my tires (Nokian Gazzoladi Dual 2.3s) - they shed mud great (and Lord knows I contend with LOTS of mud here) and they have NEVER pinch flatted on me or ripped, but they weigh 850 grams apiece - has anybody found a better mud tire at a lower weight?

Thanks. I love this board.

GaryF52 · « **Reply #7 on:** February 25, 2005, 12:39:15 pm »

My Disco Monkey weighs about 34 lbs. My 5000 is about 31 lbs. I also have a Jamis Dakar at about 27 lbs. If I could get the comfort of my Evo's and the weight and handling of the Jamis, I'd be in heaven.

When is comes to bikes everything is a compromise. For me, strong wheels and a comfortable seat are a must. I'm not too hard on the drivetrain components so I don't need anything heavy duty there. Maintaining your machine in good condition is a big factor when it comes to reliability. Heavy duty wheels with poorly tensioned spoke will do you no good. Light weight components can be durable if you keep them properly adjusted and lubed.

My Disco Monkey is a bit too heavy in it's current state but I'm not going to replace good working parts unless they wear out or break. I think that for XC riding, 31 lbs. or less is fine. If you're not racing, I think handling and durability are the factors that matter the most when it comes to riding enjoyment.

shovelon · « **Reply #8 on:** February 25, 2005, 02:58:27 pm »

Chili,

I have not used Stan's Notube but I may in the future. Right now I am happy with my WTB 2.4 Mutanoraptor with Bontrager ultralite tube combo at 685 grams combined. I never have had issues with them on the front.
My new front disk wheel is wtb laserdisklite hub, mavic 317d,doublebutted spokes and alum nipples, and ritchey wcs ultralite tape. All combined weigh less than 700 grams.
My rear wheel is and XTR hub on Mavic 517 rim brake rims, with 2.0/1.5/2.0 spokes and alum nipples. This rear wheel speced out at 900 grams. This rear wheel has given me trouble. The spokes stretch, and rim is cracking. I keep a close eye on it. I expect it to fail soon.
What kind of carbon seatpost broke on you? I just picked up an early easton EC90. Going to cut it and swap it with my Thompson for about 60 grams saving.
Check out the Extralite website. They make some neat stuff that can be used on our bikes. I like their stems. By the way, all parts I take off the Oz I mount on my 4000, my spare bike.

Terry

ChilliConCarnage · « **Reply #9 on:** February 26, 2005, 06:57:35 am »

Terry: Wow, that front wheel/tire combo is LIGHT! I have wanted to try the Mutanoraptors - I have heard good things about them. I may try an ultralite tube (and go without the slime) - I could probable shave lots of grams just from that (cheap, too!).

The seatpost I broke was from LP Composites - it was on an older Marin bike.

Sprucey · « **Reply #10 on:** February 27, 2005, 04:12:50 am »

You are absolutely correct about losing body weight - I am a classic - if I got rid of 28pounds (That s two stome - work it out!) I would climb so much better.

But, and it is a bog BUT - having a light bike does make a huge difference, no matter what your weight.

The single biggest weight saving area that will make the biggest noticeable difference is in the wheels and tyres. Everyone has covered this above but believe me, fit light tyres/tubes wheels and you will notice the difference. The bike accelerates faster, feels lighter and is much easier to climb on.

I learnt the lesson when I fitted Nokian Gazzaloddi mud tyres to my bike - the extra performance from grip was totally wasted by the ectra effort to ride and climb XC with these heavy tyres. It was awful and I expended a lot of extra energy.

Sprucey

Sprucey

shovelon · « **Reply #11 on:** February 27, 2005, 05:33:31 am »

Check out this wheelbuilder.

Oddsandendos.safeshopper.com.

He has fantastic commentaries regarding his wheelbuilds. I am thinking of purchasing a disk rear wheel from him. The huge thing is that the rear wheels are cheaper new that I can build from used parts. I patterned my front wheel from his, and it works great.

Terry

shovelon · « **Reply #12 on:** February 27, 2005, 05:41:08 am »

Make that www.oddsandendos.safeshopper.com

ChilliConCarnage · « **Reply #13 on:** April 03, 2005, 09:47:12 am »

I posted this in another thread, but I thought I'd add it here too, since it is directly relavent.

I will still be trying to lighten my EVO, but now I have a light-weight race bike to take with me to the 24 Hours Of Adrenalin Race:

This is a full scandium Salsa Caballero. I got it at a ridiculous price - it's essentially brand new. It's got crap for wheels and crank, but I'll be updating those in the near future.

I would estimate that, as built, this bike hits about 27 lbs. I'll be swapping in my carbon fiber handlebar and eggbeaters, as well as buying new wheels and a crank - I'm hoping the final weight will be in the 25 lb range. A full XTR with all the goodies could go sub 23 lbs (but I'm not going to invest THAT much!).

Now I've got my trailbike (EVO), a race bike (Caballero), and I'm pretty durned happy with my road bike as well (Felt F65)!!!

Life is sweet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Frankd3000 · « **Reply #14 on:** April 03, 2005, 12:36:47 pm »

Chilli,

36 pounds?!?!?! That's insane! Agreed, that's easily DH territory.

As per your first post, my "purchase priority"...

1A) how well does it work?

1B) can I find it cheap wherever?

1C) how light is it?

Parts breakage never comes into the equation with me. In my past i've never had a mechanical problem while I ride. I'm usually very smooth and technical with my riding, and don't make a habit of dropping off 4' walls. When I am airborne I do what I can to make a buttery-smooth landing. It's all in the legs.

Being a lightweight myself probably helps, too.

The new ride doesn't look like a bad one.

Funny, i'd think that a carbon bike would weight less than 30 pounds. Even my "dinosaur" is under 30. (shrug) Strange.

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Author Topic: Weight Discussion (Read 4064 times)

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