Author Topic: Calling OP (Read 3699 times)

Sprucey · « **on:** August 12, 2004, 09:32:26 pm »

Hi OP,

I see you have the 5th Element fitted to your Oz (from the piccy on the Progressive Suspension website) and I am keen to go down the threshold damping route myself and replace the NR2 (which has given me surprisingly good service.)

I don't want to re-invent the wheel so would you be prepared to let me have the specs of the shock you fitted?

ie - I2I length, stroke length you used and bushing sizes. Did you get it specially valved for your weight? And what weight spring did you go for?

I have measured the NR2 (its 208/209mm I2I with 1.5" stoke) with 38mm x M6 and 24mm x M6 spacer bushings.

These measurements seem to fit between 2 different lengths for the 5th Element. Did you go shorter or longer? (My thoughts are to go slightly longer to help steepen the head angle slightly as I am now running longer 120mm travel Marz Marathon forks up front which has slackened the head a bit?)

Also, do you or anyone else have any experience of the Manitou Swinger 4way on the Oz? 200mm x 2" stroke is the longest they do which I think may be too short. It would probably need a mod to the shock mount.

Thanks in advance.

Sprucey

shovelon · « **Reply #1 on:** August 13, 2004, 03:40:44 am »

Srucey,

I have the Manitou Coil 4 on my Oz. I went with the longer i2i for the same reasons as you mentioned. The longer stroke allows me to achieve a sag that matches the position that the nr2 had, maximizing the swingarm semi lockout. Coupled with 90 psi in the spv chamber I get just enough threshold lock to keep out the rest of the bobbing. The striking effect is that I can adjust the progressiveness of compression with the bottoming screw and have smoother and more travel than before.

The 5th Element is the same configuration and looks like it needed no tweeking to fit, as mine did.

I do want to say thanks to all of you on this board for the information shared that has helped me keep my Oz humming.

Terry

Old Proflexer · « **Reply #2 on:** August 14, 2004, 02:47:29 am »

I picked up my 5th element to try something different and seem to keep coming back to it as my shock of choice. it is 8.5" (215 mm) e2e, 2.5" stroke and i use a 375 pound spring - all for a reason. i use the bike mostly for xc and these shocks are valved a little heavier than that - they weren't designed for xc so i had to find a way to soften the ride a smidge.

i run most of the settings at full open. air volume is at max for plushness in the stroke, beginning and end stroke is set at minimum, i sag to 15% or so 183mm (nr @12% should be 184) so i ride properly and softly and have a good deal of suspension left over what i would have with a stock shock.

i found with my 185 - 190 pound personal weight that heavier springs were too stiff for my taste but some who've ridden it said it felt soft for them. should i ever need to stiffen things up, i can constrict the valve settings for initial and end stroke damping and screw in the air volume adjustor to ramp up compression a bit - all without changing the spring.

when setting up the shock at progressives shop in hisperia with gerald leighton, bicycle product coordinator, we settled on this spring as well - even he rode it around the parking lot, up and over curbs.

i did have to make a couple of mods and they should be in some old posts somewhere - with pics. first, i had to notch the lower mount to accomodate the spring clip but nothing more than one would have to do for an rc. (i further extended this notch to accomodate the air valve on my talas)

i also had to file slightly at the top of the shock where it was touching the spine of the frame 'tween the upper mount plates. got in there with my "DREMEL!" and took out a bit of the external section of the spine as well to leave just enough room for the shock top without rubbing. as i recall, i needed to remove about 1/16" or so, not much.

i've had the 2's, 4's, 5's, RC's, the Talas on there and keep coming back to the 5th for general riding pleasure. i keep the Talas on my spare XTR 4500 - it is fun to use with my psylo sl front end - i find myself constantly raising and lower the rear shock at a flick of a switch. i usually only do the front end for a couple of big steep hills i encounter. pics in the gallery.

hope this helps - try to get one used but some say they are prone to needing rebuilds, - i had to send mine in once even after the initial fit, when they went thru the shock thoroughly. i understand they have improved some internals to compensate.

hope all is quite well with you

OP

Sprucey · « **Reply #3 on:** August 16, 2004, 12:41:30 am »

Hi OP,

TRhanks for getting back to me - the info is really useful.

Did you have to modify the bushing kits as well? Te UK importer does not list the size required on the site but I think that bit is probably the easiest of the mods to accomplish.

I will be contacting them this week to see if I can sort it out.

Best regards,

Sprucey

Sprucey · « **Reply #4 on:** August 17, 2004, 08:54:08 pm »

Hi OP and the team,

I have taken the plunge and ordered the 5th Element Coil 216mm with 475pound spring (I am MUCH bigger than you guys!)

Hopefully it will be with me on Thursday or Friday in time to try it this weekend.

All I need to do now is go out and buy a Dremel!

Hopefully this will be the last upgrade I need to do to the Oz to bring it into the 21st century. It already rides well but I am really looking forward to the extra travel and the stable platform for uphill pedalling - I hope it doesn't disappoint.

I'll keep you all posted about progress.

Sprucey

kiwi · « **Reply #5 on:** August 17, 2004, 10:38:30 pm »

sprucey,saw some terrible floods on the news in cornwall....any where near you.....??Hope the 5th works out,dont be tempted by the DREMEL

Sprucey · « **Reply #6 on:** August 18, 2004, 01:39:29 am »

Hi Kiwi,

the floods are in small village on the nort Coast of Devon (or Cornwall? - not sure). Luckily, it seems that no one has been killed but the property damage is immense and the centre of this once very picturesque village has been destroyed.

I think we have our American cousins to thank for this - they sent the tail of one of their recent hurricanes over from Florida!

That is 2-3 counties west of me - about a 3-4 hour drive. I live right on the coast on the central south coast near Portsmouth.

Amazingly, while it is still raining down there in the west country, it has rained a bit here over the last few days but not too much.

Never used a dremel - I guess it's bit like a dentist drill?!! can't wait!

Sprucey

Old Proflexer · « **Reply #7 on:** August 18, 2004, 01:40:01 am »

progressive has a series of steel 'pins' that go though the lower and upper eyelets that take the place of our bushings. they fit snugly in the eyelet and the inner hole of the is the size of your bolt. there are many different combinations available.

originally i had the right inner diameter but the pin was too long so i was going to cut it to size. when i went out to the shop that one day, they did not have the right size available and offered to cut a new one for me on the spot. i ended up removing the pin and inserting some standard fox bushings with some washers 'tween the bushings and the lower mounting plate to take up the space as the bushings didn't fill completely. had to file one of the washers a bit to fit but -
works great.

congrats on the new adventure - the shock is a conversation piece to say the least, put one on an oz and you have a combination that turns heads and makes new friends.

i shot a quick pic of the one mounted unit i have - a bit dirty, sorry and put it in my gallery. you wont need to do anywhere near that much, 'bout the same as the fox rc's clip. the pic was way too big to post it here. keep in mind the lower plate is over filed to accomodate the fox talas and it's air valve i put on there once in a while.

OP

Sprucey · « **Reply #8 on:** August 18, 2004, 02:55:16 am »

Sad to see you have mud in So Cal in the summer as well! I thought it only rained in the UK!

Will keep you posted.

Sprucey

shovelon · « **Reply #9 on:** August 18, 2004, 03:32:50 am »

Sprucey,

I think that a 475lb. spring is too much. Do you have a trade in program for springs? I have settled for a 400 lb. spring on my Swinger, after starting at 500lb. spring.

I weigh 190 lbs. How about you?

Did you order the 8.5 or 7.875 inch stroke?

Terry

Old Proflexer · « **Reply #10 on:** August 18, 2004, 02:12:44 pm »

spruceys a pretty sharp cookie and i'm sure he'll come up with something innovative to make it all work.

springs and things are a matter of comfort and how your want your ride to feel.

I hope all is well with the bad weather - i saw some pictures on the news and it didn't look good.

we just have earthquakes, fires, floods and riots - - - our four seasons

(oh, and our governor is really bad actor this time around and from austria as well, can barely speak the language -
sad thing is, he's better than what we had! at least he's not an ex wrestler)

OP

Sprucey · « **Reply #11 on:** August 19, 2004, 04:25:23 am »

Hi Guys,

well the shock has arrived and it's sitting here in it's box looking at me giving me the "Evil eye"

Why? I hear you all ask - well it's just seen how large I am! Circa 230pounds so I am hoping the 475 spring will work. I discussed it at length with Tim Flooks the 5th element expert and distributor over here and that's what we came up with.

The shock comes ready tuned from the info I supplied so for those who know about these things (I don't - yet!), this is what settings he dialled in for me.
8.5" I2I x 2.5" stroke.
Spring 475
Air 100psi
Pos sensitive vol adj - 2 turns back from max - 2 ret
Begining stroke - minimum ie 2.5 turns back from max 2.5ret.
End stroke - 2.5 turns back from max
rebound adjust - 2turns back from max
spring preload - 1 turn

I will read the book tonight and see what it all means!

The shock comes with a nice little shock pump though! very handy for the camelback.

Our prime minister is an actor as well - just never been in a movie or to stage school!

Best regards,

Sprucey

Sprucey · « **Reply #12 on:** August 19, 2004, 10:16:08 am »

Well guys,

this may seem painfully slow but here is a tempory update re the 5th Element shock.

It's arrived, looks great but also looked very big! It also seems heavy against the NR2 but when offering the two up side by side it is apparent that it is only the extra long spring of the 5th and the piggy back reservoir that is larger (and heavier). Hopefully the extra weight will be conteracted by the much improved performance - particulary pedal damping during climbs.

The good news is that both ends fit exactly between the top and bottom mounts on the Oz frame and my measurements (with confirmation and second opinion from Simon - thank you) were correct - so nothing needed there.

The second bit of good news is that the top mount at the seat tube does not need any alteration. The head of the fork fits perfectly with no need to grind down the centre spine of the Oz or the head of the shock. I have swung it through it's full range of movement and the only doubtful area is where the piggy back reservoir collar is very close to the back edge of the carbon side plates that hold the top mounting bolt. I may need to take a round file to
that area but will see what wears/touches (if it does)during real use.

It just goes to show that all the Oz bikes are slightly different - they are all hand finished. The basic moulding is consistant but the spine trimming, side plate mounting and bolt drilling is all done by hand and not the same between all the bikes! (OP had to grind both shock and spine down. On mine the sideplates may be 1mm back and the same with the bolt holes. The tolerances made all the difference.

That means I don't have to go out and buy a Dremel!

The bottom mount requires cutting to allow the botom spring collar to fit - as expected and warned by OP. I have not done it this evening - a bottle of wine means I am not ready to take a hacksaw to the mount! It will be done tomorrow at work when I have the tools and the workshop and I am sober!

Beem reading the manual - loads of adjustment - if I can't get thios to work then there is no hope for a techy like me!

Sprucey

Old Proflexer · « **Reply #13 on:** August 19, 2004, 03:15:39 pm »

i think you're going to have more fun playing with all the adjustments til you get it where you want it

air volume for ramp up
air pressure
beginning stroke damping
end stroke damping
spring weight
spring preload
rebound damping that really works

wait - is that 7 elements?

yeah, they're a smidge heavy but i don't even notice it - they weren't built as light weight xc shocks, more freeride and downhill.

you'll wanna notch that lower mount with a large round file - my spine was a little extended at that point of touch and i hope you don't have to get into the side plate at all - i had a good deal of clearance as you could see by my pic. mount the shock without the spring if you can - that'll help you with your range of motion for clearance.

sorry you're not going to end up with a "DREMEL!" -
hopefully your 5th will keep you happy

OP

kiwi · « **Reply #14 on:** August 19, 2004, 07:55:00 pm »

very interesting and informative guys......I thought that i had my geography wrong Sprucey....I am glad!.As you say the pictures we saw on TV tell a sad story.All the best!I might have to mount up your xtr cassette soon!Seems criminal!

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Author Topic: Calling OP (Read 3699 times)