Disco monkey compares to ?

[Redshift]

Scott wrote

"what's your camera setup?... "



I was using a Canon G2 for those photos with a Sunpak flash in most cases.  The shot of the guy on the DM was in a very dark part of the course and I had to bump the ISO a lot, so there's a lot of noise.  The rider on the BigHit was in a fairly bright area plus the flash gave a nicer image.



"We (monopivots) give up something in rear suspension action while braking and clearing logs has a way of making this Really obvious..."



I know there's a lot of dispute regarding brake jack on various suspension designs.  I do agree that applying rear brakes on a monopivot does lockout the suspension to some level.  Personally I think this is a big flaw, sometimes you have to ride the brakes!



Tom A wrote

"The only differences in the suspension portion of these frames are the shock actuation linkage."



Regardless of whether or not bike designs are fancy monopivots or not, the varying designs have very different riding characteristics or "feel" to them.   I like the EVO style bike for jumps and drops and just fooling around.  But, it's nearly killed me a couple times on DH runs though.   For XC and also smaller jumping I still vastly prefer the ProFlex 957 over any other bike.  



I think I've mentioned snippets of discussions a friend and I had over the course of the summer of 2000 regarding xc suspension rigs.  Both of us had owned or at least ridden a good bit, lots of bikes.  We finally came to agree that the best overall xc style was the mac strut monopivot.  Noticeably the quickest, most durable, laterally stiffest and best accelerating frames on the market.  At that time I was on a Razorback and he was on an off the shelf RacerX.  Later I switched back the 957 and he went with a custom RacerX which later became known as the Hammerhead 100X.  BTW, we agreed that the X and Razorback were equals as bikes, but with differing TT lengths (that great old Proflex geometry!).  My large Rback was the same as his medium X.



So anyway I guess my point is that certainly while "design" is marketable (evidenced by the fact that strut frames are rapidly dying off because they aren't sexy like the newest flavor frame) and 4-bar is the king of marketable right now, minor changes in any design can make a huge difference in ridability.  And further, ridability is in the eyes of the beholder.    

Finally, shock technology has not progressed as fast as suspension design.  It's going to be interesting to see how suspension changes to take advantage of the Romics and the like!







 

[TCP]

The reason for a lot of 4bar single pivot designs vs. a larger swingarm is that the 4bar is supposed to resist twisting forces a lot better.   the example explained to me was that if you took the axel out of the wheel and place a long steel bar that stuck out the sides by a foot or two in its place, if you lift one side of the bar and push down on the other side, the swingarm will twist far more than the 4 bar linkage.  i don't know how that really translates to real world riding since any twist like that will deposit you on the ground if you are trying to balance on two wheels, but that's the explanation for the linkages on a lot of monopivots.

[keen]

 I came across a pretty good website that takes an in depth look @ suspensions : dougal.co.nz . He discusses  Horst link , seat stay , and mono pivot suspensions in detail. Horst link sounds good to me. The brake jack associated w/ mono's is a big negative for me. I was considering a Kona Bear until I found out that all 4 bars arn't created equal. I would like to find a horst link style rear w/ at least 4" of travel.

[Mike]

Somebody was mistaken about the FSR.  The FSR is a "horst-link" system and is not like a single-pivot.  Many companies don't want to pay licensing fees on the "horst-link" patent and cheat by making a single-pivot with 3 more bars to look like a four-bar.  The beauty of the "horst-link"/FSR 4-bar is that the drop out is allowed to move relative to the swing-arm.  This is done to keep the distance from the bottom bracket spindle and the rear axle constant throughout the rear travel.  The problem with 4-bars is when all those pivots loosen up from wear and tear.

Mike
'99 4000

[keen]

 Well I am glad I looked into suspensions before I made a purchase. I thought most 4 bars were alike. I like the Specialized design but question its durability. Any other true 4 bars that won't break the bank ? Thanx

[Rich]

Example; 2001 Enduro Pro Specialized, 2years and many miles , pivots still tight and smooth. They do take a little more care, but not much. 4 bar is a great rear end. You ever heard anybody complain about their Turner, and they use bushings.

[Matno]

On the other hand, I hear a ton of people raving about the Cannondale Gemini and Santa Cruz Bullit, both single pivot bikes with lots of downhilling in mind. Kind of makes me doubt that the problem of brake jack is all that noticeable. I used to think my EVO frame was bouncy when braking on rough sections, but since I switched to a Helix Pro in the rear, it feels completely smooth. On the other hand, by the time I switched shocks, I had learned not to use the brakes much on really rough stuff. Much safer that way!

[TCP]

You're right matno.  the helix makes a huge difference on the evo frame and really smooths out the trail.  If you have your weight positioned correctly (ie. butt hanging back over the rear tire) brake jack is not really a problem on a single pivot frame and you should be rolling the really steep portions or very rough stuff with very little brake anyway.  I guess the thing i notice about the fsr vs. single pivot thing is that  the evo smooths the trail very effectively and i can hear the rear tire catching and losing traction, skidding and bouncing around while feeling very confident.  on the fsr, i can feel a bit more trail action, but there is almost no skidding and you can feel the rear end tracking the contours in a different way.  just my 'seat of the pants' impressions.  I liked the FSR so much i just picked up another enduro frame(as a spare if anything happens first one.....yah that's it) to add to the stable.   I  think i have a problem with bike collecting, we (wife and I) now have 6 bikes and 2 spare frames.  
-2000 Rocky mountain thin air
-2000 Giant XTC (frame only)
-2001 FSR enduro (one complete bike, one "spare" frame)
-2000 K2 evo
-2001 K2 attack 4.0
-2000 Giant NRS DS1
-2003 GT i-drive

does that count as a problem?  As for a medical question?  My wife ruptured her kidney in a mountain bike crash 3 weeks ago, got choppered out  and spent 9 days in hospital.  She's home now and we are signed up to ride the 24 hours of adrenaline in canmore on july 19-20.  She's itching to ride it but the doctor says she shouldn't.  how long does a ruptured kidney take to heal?  It didn't require surgery and the docs said it would make a full recovery.  psycho fall, no external bruising and no broken bones/head bonks at all.  just squashed her kidney and bruised the organs around that area.  Getting info is like pulling teeth with these docs so any info is appreciated.  thanks

[Matno]

Well, I'm no doctor, but I play one on TV... Okay, I just started clinical rotations 2 weeks ago, but I have enough personal experience with my own injuries to know that it's better to just do what the doctor says. It helps if your doctor understands your sport. (When I broke my hand, my surgeon just happened to share an office with my main riding buddy who's a physical therapist. I think that helped him to give me the okay to ride a couple of weeks early).

I would assure the docs that she's not going to be crashing (hopefully!) and see what they say, but ultimately, they should make that decision for you. They tend to know what's best in most cases, which may not apply to your wife, but of course, you're free to do what you want.

On the other hand, she's still got 1 good kidney... I did read an article last year about a guy who won a fairly large MTB race 6 weeks after donating a kidney...

[Old Proflexer]

internal injuries are a bit of a mystery and we all heal at different rates.

never, never, never, never, never, never, never take a chance on internal injuries, especially a kidney and especially if it's not your kidney and especially if it belongs to your one and only wife -

i have friends on dialysis - best to be safe -

not know the extent of the damage, the doctors probably can't tell you because they probably don't know.

i hope she fully recovers and you'll be riding again together someday soon.

OP