ride quality, air vs. coil?

[keen]

  I have run 2 different coils on my 01' Disco Monkey- NR-2 and a Stratos Pro. My Stratos was off for repairs so I decided to try my freinds Fox Float air shock. It felt harsh on small bumps but blew thru quite a bit of travel on med hits. More or less air would lead to ultra harsh small bumps or bottoming on the med. hits. Is this the nature of an air shock? Feels very linear. I rode my freinds 03' Enduro (Fox Float RL) and it had the same feel. Am I just used to coils or am I missing something w/ air shocks? Thanx

[Phillip]

Maybe the compression damping was set too firm and the air pressure too low.

[Matno]

My experience with Fox air shocks was way different from yours. Extremely plush, and NO bottoming except just barely on the biggest hits. Go figure.

[Old Proflexer]

i ride two main shocks on my mono pivot - a progressive 5th and a fox talas r
(the noleens sit in a box as back ups and i may just sell them if anyone needs one in the future - they work just fine thank you)
i know you had that talas rl and mentioned bottoming but i don't seem to have that problem with mine - maybe it's just riding style and what we each consider 'ok' - for basic xc work, i think it's great.

i picked both of those shocks in particular just so i could take for me, medium to heavy hits and not bottom out the shocks - you may want to look to the AVA fox shock if you want lite and no bottom effect, but may have to trade off a bit of plush.  the newer fox tech is a decided improvement over their old - it's not great to the extent of a coil but it is good.  the talas i've run with lower pressures and haven't been able to hit my mark on the shaft for full travel use, but then i do notice 'bob' in my stroke.

small bump compliance, air shock, monopivot and bit hits aren't necessarily words that go together in the same sentence - higher pressure and one looses the plush and the bottoming

maybe look to the newer air shocks that are working out the bugs that you describe like the ava foxes, the progressive airs, swinger air etc.


OP

[Simon]

Maybe you should try the air shock again and spend some time experimenting with air pressures and damping settings,sounds like (as Phillip pointed out)that the shock wasn't set up for you and your bike,I've found my Risse air shock more than a match against the coil shocks I've tried in a XC application,Simon

[drtunit]

The small bump compliance issue was probably a combination of typical air shock stiction and a little too much dampening. The spring rate on an airshock is not linear because as you move through the travel you are compressing air and building pressure. Spring rate ramps-up quickly under compression.
Coil springs are linear, no difference in spring rate under comression.
Air shocks are not an improvement in dampening as much as they are lighter and simple to manufacture and some like the progressive spring rate on medium to big hits to help with bottoming-not me though.

[kkeen]

  I have taken a few rides now w/ the air shock. I don't think it feels anything like my coil shocks. I will attribute some small bump harshness to the stiction and possibly the rest to air as a dampner. I thought they designed some air shocks to act linear such as the Fox Talas?

[Matno]

Some air shocks are more linear than others. I'm not totally familiar with the engineering behind that, but it's supposed to work. (Personally, I'm not sure why anyone would want a shock that's NOT progressive. The ramp up at the end takes the pain out of big bumps without losing small bump compliance. But that's just me).

Coil springs can be linear or progressive. Depends on how the spring is wound. Very easy to make them either way. Far as I know, only Stratos makes progressive springs standard on their shocks.

Newer air shocks do not "suffer" from stiction nearly as much as the older ones did. It's still present, but from everything I've heard (and experienced), it's not anything like older air shocks, which I never tried.

drtunit, you said "Air shocks are not an improvement in dampening as much as they are lighter and simple to manufacture." What exactly do you mean? What do lighter and simpler have to do with damping? Air shocks (except for Cane Creek, which are air damped - and supposedly don't work as well) still use oil damping, and if anything, the newer air shocks are MORE complicated than the coil versions, not simpler. I'm just trying to figure out what you were getting at.

[kiwi]

the engineering is quite simple matno..in fact its not engineering at all its a LAW..... boyles law i think which says if you decrease the volume of a cylinder filled with gas it will increase its pressure..temperature is also a variable.....As the pressure increases it becomes harder to compress.....ultimately of course it will tirn into liquid ,but that occurs at slightly higher pressures that we deal with......

[Old Proflexer]

(Personally, I'm not sure why anyone would want a shock that's NOT progressive. The ramp up at the end takes the pain out of big bumps without losing small bump compliance. But that's just me).

agreed - linear in the front end should be important to many for ride quality, linear in the rear i'm not too sure about.  I have a progressive and a linear, the later taking the shock thru a little more travel than necessary to get the job done (IMHO) but is enjoyable on the bigger hits for my bones in that the bike takes the hit and not me, which would not be the case on the progressive.

(neither hit bottoming out)

this may be one of those 'different strokes for different folks' things -

and if it ever happens that the air in my shock ever turns liquid, paul, i told my wife to makes sure you get my spare frames and parts bin.


OP

[pedro]

My experience with air shocks has been shocks that were manufactured 4 or 6 years ago, before the "more linear" generation of air shocks.  To make matters worse, the bike that had the air shock was very much a "rising rate" type of suspension.  I was not pleased with that bike's suspension performance.
The evo however is a falling rate suspension design which could perform nice with an air shock.
That said, I do prefer the feel of coil, but am aware that for xcountry/trail use, air shocks will eventually be a better choice. (due to weight and adjustability advantages)