Author Topic: Annual conversation (Read 17781 times)

Dennis · « **Reply #45 on:** August 02, 2006, 12:50:59 am »

Kiwi,

From what I've heard/read, extra testosterone takes awhile (days or weeks) to build up enough to provide a boost.

also, thanks for the heads up on the smiley thing.

[smiley=Groucho.gif]

jimbo · « **Reply #46 on:** August 02, 2006, 11:12:52 am »

Quote

Kiwi,

From what I've heard/read, extra testosterone takes awhile (days or weeks) to build up enough to provide a boost.

[smiley=Groucho.gif]

Ok, no expert here but from what I've heard/read is that testosterone helps you recover faster. Considering Landis miracle recovery you start to wonder.

On the other hand. Did any body catch the episode of Myth Busters about the poppy seeds? The myth is suppose to be that consuming foods with poppy seeds will make you fail a drug test. It turns out the test on myth busters showed that consuming poppy seed will test positive for drugs.

After watching that episode you start to wonder about drug testing.

I even saw another show that showed that it is possible for one person to have more than one set of DNA. That throws a curve into DNA testing.

Isn't cable TV great. I learn more from watch TV than I ever learned in school:)

kiwi · « **Reply #47 on:** August 02, 2006, 06:27:53 pm »

i have learnt more on the interweb in 15 minutes than i have over the last 10years by other means!

StoereVent · « **Reply #48 on:** August 04, 2006, 09:50:30 pm »

So: the contra expertise prooved to be positive too. Goodbye Landis and I hope you never come back. In general: if you have to win by cheating, you are the biggest looser around. Sorry for all the fans of The Tour, cycling, Landis, etc.

Jeroen.

shovelon · « **Reply #49 on:** August 05, 2006, 08:22:24 am »

Wow, what a black eye for his team. All that work for what?

Terry

orange · « **Reply #50 on:** August 05, 2006, 10:06:12 am »

All this makes me think that drugs is rife in cycling as why would he do it unless he though the likelihood of getting caught was minimal... if he thought the chance was small it must be because loads of his co-competitors are doing it and getting away with it all the time... depressing.

Matno · « **Reply #51 on:** August 05, 2006, 10:41:55 am »

I think he's innocent. Unfortunately, it may be something he'll never be able to prove. Maybe somebody "spiked" his meds without his knowledge. There's really no way to know what happened unless somebody admits to something. If nobody actually did anything wrong, I don't think we'll ever know.

I feel bad for Floyd. Mennonites (in my experience) tend to be very honest people (even if he's not strictly following the religion, at least he was raised that way). Also, he's a close friend (and roommate) of Dave Zabriskie, who I think is a very standup guy. Of course, if he DID do it, I would feel bad for Oscar P (assuming HE didn't cheat). But my gut feeling is that Floyd didn't do anything wrong.

StoereVent · « **Reply #52 on:** August 05, 2006, 08:06:07 pm »

@Matno: "I would feel bad for Oscar P (assuming HE didn't cheat)" Lets stick to the facts: Landis has been caught: HE did something wrong, Oscar P has not been caught: he didn't do something wrong. And I think it's a little naive to keep thinking Landis is innocent. He is at least more 'guilty' as Ullrich and Basso, who even haven't been caught yet.
BTW: have there been riders expelled after the stage Landis did win because of the maximum allowed time difference?

Jeroen.

kiwi · « **Reply #53 on:** August 05, 2006, 09:12:07 pm »

I may be completely naive here,and at the risk of repeating myself.....With the lead up to the tour,esp the lead up to THIS tour and the fact that he was tested on previous stages and his background......it doesnt make any sense......on the other hand his performance on stage 16 was unbeileivable.
I cant help but think this is going to have major repercusions

StoereVent · « **Reply #54 on:** August 05, 2006, 10:57:47 pm »

well, it makes some sense. After stage 15 Landis looked down and out: place 11 overall. So there was some kind of 'nothing-to-loose-situation'. Testosteron doesn't make you go any faster, but it makes the recovery easier. And Landis didn't look for something to go any faster, being the best rider in this tour at that moment that just had a very bad day, but he had to find his normal form.

Jeroen.

Matno · « **Reply #55 on:** August 06, 2006, 05:51:36 am »

Quote

He is at least more 'guilty' as Ullrich and Basso, who even haven't been caught yet.

I haven't heard of either Ullrich or Basso protesting their innocence like Landis has. I ride with a German who is a huge Ullrich fan, and even he hasn't tried to defend him. Besides, Jan has always been ragged on for not training hard enough in the off season. (Which was part of the reason why I like him). NOBODY could say that about Landis.

I think the thing that bothers me the most about this whole scenario (not just Landis, but Ullrich, Basso, Hamilton, and a lot of others) is that there is such a huge presumption of guilt before any actual proof. (Although Ullrich's response to the whole thing was pretty convincing by itself). The evidence against Hamilton was really weak - especially in light of a documented history of elevated blood counts - but he may be banned for life for something he didn't do.

Personally, I think the people who look the most ridiculous in this are the lab people. There was actually a quote from the head of the testing laboratory who said that there was absolutely no question that the results were accurate. Only an idiot would say something like that. Having worked in medical research for the past 5 years, I've learned that there's no such thing as a foolproof test. Also, we're not talking about a normal person here. We're talking about a freak of nature who is bound to have abnormal conditions in his body from time to time. (Let's face it, anyone who can win the Tour is a freak - especially if they don't cheat).

StoereVent · « **Reply #56 on:** August 06, 2006, 07:41:28 am »

you really are a freak of nature if you have synthetic testosteron in your body!

Matno · « **Reply #57 on:** August 06, 2006, 12:22:01 pm »

True, but as a doctor, I have to say that the way they differentiate natural from synthetic testosterone is not as foolproof as some people say it is. Just as the testosterone/epitestosterone ratio (which was used to determine that his testosterone was elevated), both molecules tested to show "synthetic" or natural testosterone are naturally occurring. It's the ratio that they're complaining about. Still, I think the only way to prove this one way or the other will be a confession from SOMEONE about SOMETHING. Time will tell.

Also, I think there are too many people out there who can't stand the thought of another American win and would go to great lengths to discredit ANY American. I know most people are reasonable, but here in America, there are a lot of people who don't understand just how fanatical fans in other countries can be. (To go along with Landis' claims that somebody with an agenda is out to get him...)

On another note, how about Leipheimer's stage win in Germany? Jens Voigt ain't looking half bad either with the overall lead. I like Jens and actually hope he wins, but I wouldn't feel bad about Levi winning either. That was a sweet stage in heavy rain. Not for the riders, but cool to watch at least! I like races that prove toughness in more ways than one. (Originally, the Tour de France was designed to be so hard that there would be one very clear winner, and maybe even just one finisher! Of course, back then, you had to do ALL of your own bike repairs. Now THAT would be a race. I remember a story about one guy who actually broke his frame, found a shop and welded it himself, then - if I recall correctly - won the race).

orange · « **Reply #58 on:** August 06, 2006, 08:44:48 pm »

They also used to set off at 2 in the morning and ride all day completing silly milages back in the 20's....

StoereVent · « **Reply #59 on:** August 07, 2006, 08:19:31 am »

@ Matno: you mean Eugène Christophe ('Cri-Cri') in the Tour of 1919! Wore the yellow jersey, in the tour the jersey was introduced. Made it through the Pyreneeën (sorry for the Dutch spelling, don't know the english right now) and Alps in yellow and looked like winning the Tour. But the stage from Metz to Duinkerken (with only two stages left) he fell and broke his forks. He welded the thing himself indeed, but it cost him 2 hours and also the Tour... Great story anyway!

And there are so many more great stories! In the beginning riders only had two gears: one sprocket at each side of the rear wheel, so just turn your wheel to shift. Some sort of twist shifting avant la lettre. And ofcourse Wim van Est, the first Dutch in the jellow jersey. In 1951 he fell (wearing yellow) 70 meters from the Col d'Aubisque into a ravine, but nearly wasn't injured at all. He had to be lifted up with a chain of cycling tyres and persued to go to the hospital instead of going on!

Jeroen.

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Author Topic: Annual conversation (Read 17781 times)

jimbo