Author Topic: Carbon frame (Read 6087 times)

rapiddescent · « **Reply #15 on:** November 08, 2006, 07:16:15 pm »

how hard do you think it would be to manufacture the carbon outer skins in some sort of volume?

I wonder if there is a market to make these bikes again - not in particularly large numbers - as some sort of co-operative for us lot.

callum
rds

Proflexman · « **Reply #16 on:** November 09, 2006, 02:43:39 am »

A thoughtful question.
The mould would cost about £700 and you should be able to manage runs of about 20 frames a day.
I spoke to the company in st annes chapel in Cornwall that manufacture moulds for people.
I spoke to the manager at length about the process.
You could use the ballon then lay up with a semi cured carbon then close up the mould and vacum the mould to draw off excess epoxy thus reducing weight further.
It could work but you would need to take moulds of the large and medium frames.
I believe the swinging arm mounting point would need re-designing.
and head angles need altering to run a longer fork.
As for customers, I dont believe you need to limit yourself to only these lads.
Did you know that the moulds for the carbon K2 frames are still out there!!!
I was in contact with the company that made them and they asked me if I would be interested in them!!
Trouble is the frames were hot moulded then cooled.
Perhaps one could locate the frame mould.
I am still interested in continuing my work with these frames.
Even the original frame build used too many layers of carbon and to get thickness and strength they used a heavy coarse weave.
Where as people like a finer weave as this is more pleasing to the eye.

Proflexman · « **Reply #17 on:** November 09, 2006, 02:54:09 am »

okay mould at worst £1000
I would use one layer of the carbon coarse weave then follow up with one layer of 450gsm weave.
Each roll 25 meters ish £7500.
Lightweight epoxy £500 a barrel 45 gallon though you may be able to buy semi cured carbon.
The chap that built Chris boardmans bike runs Colin lewis cycles in Paignton Devon.
His advice would be usefull.
You would also need to pass destructive tests which is law so thats two frames for each size.
£30k at least

One weeks pocket money Callum

orange · « **Reply #18 on:** November 09, 2006, 03:49:58 am »

so realistically what would the long run cost of a frame be per unit? Obviously depends on how many are sold I suppose...!

Proflexman · « **Reply #19 on:** November 09, 2006, 04:11:29 am »

If we could locate the original moulds and apply for patents then we have control.
I believe that John Landseratt at K2 said something about an open patent on the frames.
Not sure what this meant.
I assumed it meant that should K2 wish to re-make the frames at a later date the open patent allowed them to.
He did say that in a board meeting that K2 had been following the threads on here and had been watching my threads about the carbon frame and that they had no intention of making them again.
And when they saw my finished frame they allowed me to build them on an open patent which could be revoked if I were to run into trebble figures each month.
The bikes could be sold as frame shock and swinger.
Prices well its early yet and depends on demand but from £1500 each and would depend on the quality of the finished article.
Afterall you may wish your frame sprayed with a colour, so there would be no need to apply the finer weave, because you would not see it.

rapiddescent · « **Reply #20 on:** November 10, 2006, 01:43:31 am »

I'm definitely *not* interested in doing this as a business* - just as a co-op online friendly thing to see if we can do it. I'm happy selling springs and stuff but I run it so that it doesn't make any money, like as a service to the proflex comunity.

If we could get the cost down to say, £15k and then got 25 people interested then I'd be happy to do the distribution work and some of the manufacturing design/ supervision for no fee etc.

that way, we won't annoy K2 who own the patent for the techniques and geometry being used, we won't upset the trademark holders and also we are sending a clear message to K2 that if an online community is this serious about building k2 like bikes then perhaps the board of K2 might want to reconsider the mothballing of K2 bike.

* the reason i wouldn't want to do this as a business is because of the insurance risk and also, past carbon mountain bikes have always been fraught with risk - Faith racing from Leicester in the UK made their frame way too expensive and K2 bike were ahead of their time but made a mistake with the non-weatherprooven smart shocks.

any thoughts?

cheers
callum
rds

Proflexman · « **Reply #21 on:** November 10, 2006, 07:36:53 am »

Poll.

How many on here would like an Ozx Ozm.
Which models and size would you like.
Painted or shiny carbon.

I am counting rough numbers so kick ur m8s butt and wake him/her.

jeffhop · « **Reply #22 on:** November 10, 2006, 09:47:59 am »

i wouldnt mind another oz, if you need one to make a mould from ive got a medium you could use. what i would REALLY like would be a carbon swingarm for the xpx that uses sealed cartridge bearings and is disc ready! and would bolt straight onto a normal shock rather than using a cone or maybe just a replacement strut assembly (been looking at the carbon struts on a fisher today which is where i got the idea from!)

Proflexman · « **Reply #23 on:** November 10, 2006, 10:14:10 am »

Oh Jeff would you like cream with yours !!!! :-)

jeffhop · « **Reply #24 on:** November 10, 2006, 10:27:28 am »

yeah, and i want first lick!!

jeffhop · « **Reply #25 on:** November 10, 2006, 10:45:50 am »

i must admit i think the strut assembly is the weak point on the strut bikes, how many people on this forum would like to swap their ods or noleen for a more modern shock. without having to make the adaptor themselves?

orange · « **Reply #26 on:** November 10, 2006, 06:11:28 pm »

yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes ... did I say yes

Proflexman · « **Reply #27 on:** November 10, 2006, 08:52:58 pm »

And your answer to the rest of the question Orange is !!!!!!!?

orange · « **Reply #28 on:** November 10, 2006, 10:04:46 pm »

Proflexman · « **Reply #29 on:** November 11, 2006, 02:18:37 am »

Well Callum going on the number of times Orange has replied with yes, I assumed he alone wants 40 assemblies.
So this should be quite viable.
We just need to slow his enthusiasm down ( a brick should do nicely ) a tadge.

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Author Topic: Carbon frame (Read 6087 times)