Integrated Headsets who rides one?

[bayarearider]

I've never ridden or worked with integrated headsets.  Are they as bad as some say they are?  So far i've only read postings from riders who feel they "suck".  But none from riders who have actually had a set go bad on them.  My main concern is the install, are there precautionary measures i should take before installing the headset.  I read something about reaming the head tube before an install, but won't this create a larger diameter seat for the bearings creating a less than snug fit?

I am interested in hear what you guys have to say about it.

[TCP]

Just to get a bit of information out there, there are two types of "integrated" headsets.  a few years ago, schwinn came out with an integrated system where the actual cartridge bearing was set into the aluminum of the headtube without any sort of cup being pressed in, ie. the headtube was the cup.  At around the same time, Giant and a few others started using a "zero stack" headset that fit into a larger diameter headtube but still had all the headset parts, including cups that had to be pressed into the headtube both top and bottom and then had a bearing set into the cup.  The schwinn version was called ICBM(no idea what that stands for) and had problems with missaligned bearing seats and headtube ovalizing.  This version is really a problem and doesn't work well and hasn't been produced in a number of years.  Well,  in the last couple of years Giant (and others) who use the zero stack headset(with cups) have started calling this type "integrated".  The confusion still lies in the fact that people remember the ICBM type as "integrated" and have horror stories about them.  The zero stack type work fine ( i have used them on an NRS frame and an XTC hardtail) but its really the way the name is used that's a problem.  inless it's an old schwinn frame, "integrated" headsets are fine.

[Tom_A.]

Not true....cane creek and others (such as Ritchey) make integrated headsets that use the head tube as the "cup" for a cartridge bearing.  I have one of these on my road bike...so far no problems.  But, a friend of mine has had a problem with his in that we think the headtube surface has been damaged and his headset won't stay tight.  The bummer is, there's nothing he can do short of replacing the frame.  Chris King has a good write up on why integrated headsets aren't a good idea.

http://www.chrisking.com/tech/int_headsets_explained/int_hds_explain_1.html

The "zero stack" or internal headsets are OK...

[bayarearider]

So which one is on the new razorbacks? The zero stack with cups or the ICBM?  Well mine is still in the mail on the way, so i'll check when i get it.  Yeah i read the chris king article, makes sense but other bike manufactureurs (such as maveric) say that some of the negative information out there is based on theory alone and not from riders who actually ride them.  But then again frame manufactureurs are just trying to sell the frame.  So that is why i want to get some feedback from the riders themselves rather than from people who are trying to sell you their product.

keep em coming!

[GaryF52]

I recently built up a Jamis Dakar Pro, which uses the zero stack style headset.  
Quoting from the instructions that came with my Cane Creek Headset:

1.Use a head tube reaming and facing tool to prepare the top and bottom of the fram's head tube.  

2.Use a crown race cutting tool to turn and face the crown race seat of the fork.

Note: It is imperative to complete these steps to insure a smooth operating headset.  If these steps are not completed or done improperly, the headset may be more rough in turning  or may tend to "stick" to one side or the other.  This applies to ALL frames and forks, new or used, painted or unpainted

The nearest bike shop to me is 40 miles so I didn't bother with the above instructions, but I did hand file a very tiny chamfer on the lower head tube because I was having a hell of a time getting it to go on straight.  

The headset is working perfectly fine, no complaints, but I would consider anything but a standard headset as a negative next time I choose a new frame.  

[bayarearider]

GARYF,

i believe your bike uses internal headset cups.  This is different from the setup the K2 has.  The k2 uses the headtube to seat the bearings.

Anyone know how the FORK FACE tool works?

does it just smooth out the part where the crown race sits?

[kiwi]

i have no opinion or experience with zero stack or integrated headsets.However the ide of the facing tools is to ensure the head tube and bearing races and cups are exactly perpendicular.

[Mike_Farris]

Here's a link to a PDF file from Chris King's website that goes into some technical detail about integrated headsets:
http://www.chrisking.com/pdfs/Int%20Headsets%20Explained.pdf

King also makes a "integrated" headset that solves a lot of problems. A frame may or may not be able to take one; you would have to contact the frame's manufacturer to find out. Here's the link to the King headset:
http://www.chrisking.com/headsets/hds_perdido.html

I personally think that the whole integrated headset thing is silly. It doesn't solve any problem with headsets in general, and is only done for cosmetic reasons. I also think that there's a bit of an ulterior motive for the bike makers to go with integrated headsets; they're practically guaranteeing that you'll have to replace your frame when the headset goes south.

I don't think I'll buy a bike that uses one. But then again, I think that lugged steel bikes are very sexy...