When did K2 lose its innovation

[Simon]

Is it just me but when did K2/Proflex lose its ability to innovate?I remember when first there was the flex stem, then full suspension bikes that actually worked,the linkage fork,the linkage fork with anti bob,through shaft dampers,the stunning 855 and 856,with aluminium s/arm,subsequent use of carbon,infact along with AMP Proflex pioneered the way for f/sus in mtb,I know most of this is quite crude compared to whats on offer today but in its day it was pretty cutting edge,they did follow up with the excellent carbon Oz and the EVO,and the attempt at a smart shock and fork,but whats happened since, the R/back (Turner design) the new lithium (seen it all before),where's the innovation,look at Santa Cruz with its vpp, Intence spider vpp,Cannondale with its lefty fork,Scott genius with its own vpp pull shock,Whyte bike with its new twist on the linkage fork,Specialized with its brain,Orange with a 1.5" headset,Gary fisher with its unique geometry,I know there's loads more out there just couldn't remember them all,but this is my point is K2 going to start to innovate again or have they just been left behind,or have I missed something?why did they stop building the Oz and EVO when they where onto a winner,imagine if they had done a couple more years of development on them,don't get me wrong love my K2 but just wish I could see some innovation from them in the future not using other company designs if I wanted a turner design I'd buy a turner if I wanted a 4 bar design I'd buy a trek, you get the picture,anyway I was just wondering if anyone else felt the same way, I've noticed there's been a few from the forum moving away from the K2 brand has this anything to do with it or are most of you happy with the way things are going, Simon [smiley=disbelief.gif]    

[Phillip]

Maybe K2 never had innovation. Proflex(Bob Girvin) came up with all of the items that you mentioned.

[Dennis]

Maybe K2 never had innovation. Proflex(Bob Girvin) came up with all of the items that you mentioned.

Philip, you hit the nail squarely on the head on this one. I would just change your statement as follows, just to make it a bit more emphatic:

K2 NEVER had any innovation. It was all Bob Girvin, before the buyout of Proflex by K2.

[smiley=groucho.gif]

[bikendan]

  [smiley=upset.gif]the others are right. k2 bought girvin and proflex's innovation. but they put their name on the '98 models, the last with the girvin influenced designs. that year started the drop in mtb sales and popularity. k2 had bought proflex for a piece of the mtb craze but came in too late. so, k2 decided to go with proven designs and innovations to make more safer investments and profits.
remember, they are not just a bike company so each division they own has to be profitable.
plus they have hired non-proflex people and i think very few, if any, proflex people are still there.
it's a tough business anymore, i.e. schwinn and gt.  

[Jeff77]

I recently spoke with a VP at Easton (Easton helped me in a big way with a defective carbon swingarm from supergo). He mentioned that when Proflex was bought out, a number of the engineers left (some are still with Easton's bicycle division...) I guess the atmosphere just wasn't the same after the buy-out; as is often the case....

[Simon]

Its a shame that when K2 took over things seemed too of gone static and they just rely on other companies developments,I've been riding Proflex products for many years having owned an 853,still got an 856, 4500 and an Oz frame,But as Proflex/K2 pulled out of the UK a few years back I lost contact with how things where going and until I resently stumbled across this great site, didn't know much about there more resent products,unfortunatly not overly impressed with there current offerings,can anyone tell me whats Bob Girvin upto now?does he still work within the bike industry?I've a lot to thank him for, thorougly enjoyed owning owning some of his products, Simon  [smiley=beer.gif] [smiley=beer.gif]

[Carbon_Angus]

rumor has it he is enjoying tropical sunsets  

but i haven't seen him pinned down as to what he is up to.

the writing was on the wall when Pro~Flex sold to Armstrong and k2 took over the bikes. Most of the stuff on the drawing board from Pro~Flex made it to production, but nothing very innovative since. Noleen had a few interesting concepts with the smart fork and smart shock, but it seems with Noleen it never was improved upon and tweaked.

i bought my 857 right about the time k2/Pro~Flex moved from RI to WA. that one move really hurt the CS relations, especially regading the Noleen shocks and such. They became really hard to deal with and get parts warrantied and replaced, let alone service/replace blown shocks.

i am glad to have two bikes in operation that bear the Pro~Flex name.

[bikendan]

 [smiley=dead.gif]i have to agree with carbon angus. i bought my 4000 at the time k2 moved the bike operation from R.I. to Wash. they had a nightmare of dealer and customer problems, due to parts and equipment being in transition. they had problems with noleen shocks and weren't up and running to solve them. they lost a lot of dealers that year. i can't comprehend why they began moving right after the '98 models came out. dealers and customers got frustrated waiting and gave up.
i had to go directly to vashon island to get my nr-4 swapped out.