Short cage vs. long--rear derailleur

[willem]

Love my hollowtech external type BB. Elegant simplicity, light, and rugged.

Hate the expensive tools required. [smiley=disbelief.gif]
Be vewy vewy careful not to crosstread these [smiley=doh.gif]

With one 856 using a medium Sheemano square/taper BB and one 856 using the XBB, I gotta say I can feel the difference under heavy load. The XBB is pretty darn stiff... (When I say heavy load, I mean 210#... [smiley=dead.gif])

[kondilemma]

I've currently been riding the same old cast-iron hardtail for over a decade now, and haven't known anything else besides my Schmanno LX cranks with  square tapered BB.  Think I'm on my 3rd BB now.



I think it's time to upgrade!

[jazclrint]

I have a Race Face Ti ISIS BB with Next LP cranks.  RaceFace thought the cracks would be flexy for my weight (215+lbs), but the BB is stiff and soo smooth I never think about it.  But I don't feel the swingarm on my 5500 is flexy either.  Or maybe its the right amount of flexy for me.  Who knows.
Rich

[Matno]

I don't feel the swingarm on my 5500 is flexy either.  Or maybe its the right amount of flexy for me.  Who knows.
Rich

If you don't feel that the swingarm is flexy, you either have Simon's aluminum swingarm with sealed bearing conversion, or you really like side to side "give." I weigh 140, and if I could afford it, a frame with a stiffer swingarm would be high on the list. I'm used to it after 6 years, but that doesn't mean that I like it. Mostly it bugs me because every time it flexes sideways, I think about how that's side-loading my rear shock and prematurely wearing it out... On the other hand, I've landed some drops at scary sideways angles, and hardly noticed hitting the ground thanks to that rear carbon "sideways softtail"!

[Thunderchild]

In my experience it is difficult to separate tire and wheel lateral movement from swingarm movement.  Wheels can flex very differently depending on cross pattern, spoke diameter and butting, rim type, tension, etc.  Every rotation causes rim/spoke movement.  If the swing arm is flexing from side to side it should affect the rolling line of the rear wheel as the wheel is clamped in with the quick release.  Also, side to side should cause the main pivot and the shock pivot points to wear out.  I have been impressed with how little the pivot bearings have worn on my Oz and 5000.  Both have seen many years of year round riding with my 185 pounds.  I would like to have an aluminum swing armed EVO to compare.  

My thoughts
Thunderchild

[Simon]

An Oz with carbon arm will be be more flexy (laterally)than
an Evo with a carbon arm,
there's alot of flex in that arm but the carbon mainframe pivot mount flexes considerably more
than the Evo,
I would of liked to of tried an Evo with an
aluminium s/arm ,sealed bearings and a propedal
shock preferably one with large eyelet bearings
and large shaft bearings with alot of overlap,
think that would make a fast informative ride,
think the Evo frame gets unfairly overlooked because
the carbon looks so cool IMHO,
in hindsight I would of liked to of owned one to play
around with.

Simon.

[Matno]

In my experience it is difficult to separate tire and wheel lateral movement from swingarm movement.  

I did a little experiment -
First I flexed the rear wheel just by holding the frame in one hand and the wheel in the other - which gave me about an inch of lateral flex
Then I firmly clamped the frame in a vise (actually, a large very solid door) and did the same thing. There was about 1/8" less flex.

Therefore, I concluded that most of the flex was in the swingarm, and not in the wheel itself. Besides, if the wheel were flexing that much (or even a 1/4"), I'm pretty sure it would have made the brakes rub at some point, which it didn't. Subjective test, to be sure, but my experience nonetheless...

[Thunderchild]

Next Oz overhaul I will try the flex experiment.  I wonder what a 4-bar would do with such a test.  

[Matno]

I wonder what a 4-bar would do with such a test.

Solid as a rock would be my guess... (Especially a faux 4-bar like most of them are).

[shovelon]

An Oz with carbon arm will be be more flexy (laterally)than

an Evo with a carbon arm,

there's alot of flex in that arm but the carbon mainframe pivot mount flexes considerably more

than the Evo,

I would of liked to of tried an Evo with an

aluminium s/arm ,sealed bearings and a propedal

shock preferably one with large eyelet bearings

and large shaft bearings with alot of overlap,

think that would make a fast informative ride,

think the Evo frame gets unfairly overlooked because

the carbon looks so cool IMHO,

in hindsight I would of liked to of owned one to play

around with.



Simon.

My Evo with alum swingarm and factory sealed bearings is very rigid. It is a spare to my Oz, but has lots of potential.



On the note of alum swingarms, a conversation with K2 late last year before they sold to Iron horse, yielded a tidbit. No longer do they have any carbon swingarms of any kind. But they did have stock of aluminum Evo swingarms, for sale at $175 each.



Terry

[Simon]

My Evo with alum swingarm and factory sealed bearings is very rigid. It is a spare to my Oz, but has lots of potential.






Terry

Terry bet there's not much weight difference
between the 2 either  
talking main frame and s/arm assemblies.
Oh before anyone buys an Evo aluminium s/arm for
a carbon bike, don't won't fit too narrow to clear
mainframe,unless you cut it about but thats quite
involved.

Simon.

[shovelon]

Terry bet there's not much weight difference
between the 2 either  
talking main frame and s/arm assemblies.
Oh before anyone buys an Evo aluminium s/arm for
a carbon bike, don't won't fit too narrow to clear
mainframe,unless you cut it about but thats quite
involved.

Simon.

Carbons and the Evos share the exact same geometry. And all my Oz parts will fit, even the caboneous swingarmeous(ACME).

You are right that the alum swingarm would need to be modified to fit the carbon. I like your job. But don't you think it would be lazier to grind away the frame? I mean it is only a frame, right?  [smiley=laughing.gif] [smiley=turtle.gif][smiley=laughing.gif]

Now here is the ticket. Put the Evo alum swingarm on the Oz, 957 swingarm and strut on the Evo, and the Oz swingarm on the 957. [smiley=bomb.gif] [smiley=bomb.gif] [smiley=bomb.gif] [smiley=bomb.gif] [smiley=bomb.gif] [smiley=nod.gif]

Terry

[Simon]

Now here is the ticket. Put the Evo alum swingarm on the Oz, 957 swingarm and strut on the Evo, and the Oz swingarm on the 957. [smiley=bomb.gif] [smiley=bomb.gif] [smiley=bomb.gif] [smiley=bomb.gif] [smiley=bomb.gif] [smiley=nod.gif]

Terry

Eh my head hurts now  [smiley=laughing.gif]

Simon.