Swinger (or other shocks) - source for bushings?

[Matno]

Just got my Swinger Air 3 way in the mail. Looks Beautiful! I'm curious how others here have resolved the bushing issues. The ones that came with this shock certainly won't work. In fact, I'm not even sure how to get them out. They're much tighter than I'm used to (I always make sure that my bushings pivot freely before putting them on the bike).

They're too short to fit on my current bike, so I'll have to get new ones because I can't just grind them down. Also, the holes through the bushing are significantly larger than my current shock (and thus too big for the bolts). On the other hand, I do have a spare set of longer bushings from my Stratos, if they'll fit. We'll see. If I can't work something out with my current setup, does anyone know the best source of bushings? I know from past experience that dealing directly with Manitou is virtually impossible. My LBS could probably do it for me, but I want to explore faster options if possible.

Thanks for any advice...

Incidentally, I measured the eye-to-eye of both the Swinger and my Astro5, (both supposedly 8.25") and the swinger is slightly longer. 212mm vs 206mm. (i.e. the Risse is 8.125" and the Swinger is 8.375")  In other words, the Risse is 1/8" shorter than claimed and the Manitou is 1/8" longer. Interesting. I think I prefer longer  so I can run more sag, but we'll see.

According to Manitou's website, the bushings are ordered as bolt diameter x width. To me, it looks like my 5000 bolt/bushing measurements are (based on my current bushings):

top: 6mm x 31mm
bottom: 6mm x 24mm

Does that sound right? I suppose you could go up or down by 0.5mm without too much of a problem...

[Simon]

Do mean the bearings/spacers that fit in the bushes  ???Could you not get a set of bearings machined up to the correct O/D and I/D with the correct spacer width,this is what a Fox service dealer did for me for my Float conversion,
I have a pair of Risse astro5's one with an i2i 206mm
the other which I bought new as a custom build i2i is 209mm.
Simon.

[Matno]

Man! I get jealous every time somebody posts something like that. Having somebody "just machine something" for me is a luxury I've never been able to discover. Wouldn't even know where to begin. When I built my disc brake adaptor, I tried looking up machine shops here in NYC and couldn't even find a single one who knew what I meant when I asked for a piece of 1/4" 6061 aluminum plate. I finally gave up trying and just picked some up when I was in Utah (where people are much more helpful and friendly). I'd be scared to even ask about getting something machined around here...

Now, according to the Stratos website, the spacers are the "bushings" and the "bearings" are the thin metal sleeve that fits between the bushings and the shock body. Going by that reference, I need bushings. (You knew what I meant).

Just changed my measurements above (on closer inspection). Also, the owner's manual only lists one width (22.2mm). Hmmm. I'm sure they make wider ones...

[Simon]

Yep looks like I got it,
Unfortunatly it doesn't help you much
if only I was closer I'd get some made at the local engineers shop,hell if I had accurate measurements of what you needed I'd get them done anyway,
as times a factor you unfortunatly would have to wait a week or 2,its along way to post.
Simon.

[Matno]

I just found a spare that looks like it might work. It's 30mm, but should work (I can always shim with washers if need be). Had it left over from when I bought my Stratos. Unfortunately, the other one that came with that shock has an 8mm bolt diameter. Grrr. That could have saved me a lot of time and headache (I could grind it down myself). Oh well. Hopefully the diameter of the one I have will match up. If not, I'll just have to get two new ones anyway.

I hear there's a guy in my building who works at a nice LBS about 15 minutes from here, so maybe I'll try to figure out a way to meet him...

[Simon]

Ahh good news then your nearly there,
I think a direct approach to guy from the LBS would also be a good move,nothing to lose,he may be very helpfull and handy to know for the future,good luck.
Simon.

[Matno]

I tried the "call Manitou directly" route, but as expected it wasn't much help. Told the lady what I wanted, she said "are you a dealer?" I said, "no, but this is the number the owner's manual says to call for this particular part." "Okay, one second." Connected me to another guy's answering machine. Grrrr...

Tried my LBS/Manitou dealer. He doesn't deal in much high-end stuff (like full suspension), but as of two years ago, he was still riding a K2 4000 with a Stratos Helix Expert. (Even still had a brand new front SmartShock sitting in his display case last time I checked. If anybody's interested, I'll bet he'd go lower than the $225 price tag that's been sitting on it for the last 4 years...) He's looking through his parts box for me, but I have my doubts...

Interestingly, the diameter of the Manitou bushings is smaller than my Stratos but larger than my Risse. Right in between, so the bushings I have don't fit after all. According to Manitou, new ones are only $5... if you can FIND them!

[shovelon]

Matno,

From my experience, the bushings are tightly fitted. However if you wrap the bushing with a towel or cloth you can grab the bushing with visegrips and twist out. This is what I do when shifting bushings from my airshock to my coilshock. It is a slight pressfit, or tight slipfit if you catch my meaning.

As far as the buying the bushings. I have had the best luck with REI. They are a huge Manitou dealer, and their bikeshop is eager to please. You could have bushings in a couple of days if possible. The only thing you need is to provide is the bolt size and the finished width of the installed bushings. In other words, the width of the frame and swingarm mount. They will do the rest. In fact I have heard that they have bins of mix and match sizes.

If you have the frame width, I can check into it for you.

Terry

[5500C]

Matno, check your mail.

I have a schematic listed for the bushings for Fox shocks, I'm pissed that they don't work.   Its in the file section

http://idriders.com/proflex/files/Bushing.JPG

[Frankd3000]

Funny, but none of you guys are mentioning the fact that you also need some type of shoulder (or step) in the bushing to keep the shock centered. You're potentially opening up a can of worms if you only use a straight diameter bushing, Matt. Think about it. You need that shoulder (oops, no pun intended!!! Sorry!).

Unless you're talking about a 3-piece bushing, as opposed to a 2-piece.

Anways, while that's important to consider, it means nothing without a LINK.  

I can't vouch for anything with these guys as of yet as i'm currently waiting my first order from them. I'm expecting it this week. Check that link out - they have what you need.... and then some.... and then some more.... and - ah, skip it. You know what I mean.

[5500C]

Actually you're right, I forgot to mention that I used 1/2" nylon spacers on both sides of the shock to center the shock.

[shovelon]

Andrew,

That link is cool. However they say that Manitou is the manufacturer, and that the material is Stainless steel. Mine are aluminum. One third the weight. My bushings came with the step machined into each side.

Also $33 is a bit steep. That is over $8 per 1/2 an end. You should go into bussiness.

I am going to talk to Fred at REI tomarrow, and get the scoop on the alum bushings.

Terry

[Matno]

I'm starting to wish I could just use the ones that came with the shock and make up the difference in size with washers. (I would if they didn't have a darn 8mm inner diameter!) What a headache to get the stupid mounting hardware. My LBS buddy is out of town, my local shop charges an arm and a leg for special orders, I don't know any machine shops,... Dang.

This is just going to make getting a machine lathe (someday) that much sweeter...

[Simon]

How about getting an M8 bolt about 50mm long (not a set screw with threads all the way down),
cut off the threads then cut the remaining shank
down to the required width (24mm I beleive),
this is the tricky bit drill through the centre all the way through to a M6 clearance hole (eg 6.2mm),
put this through the shock eye and pack out the
bush width clearance with washers evenly either side ,
the spacer you've just made needs to be very slightly
narrower than the combined shock eye and total washer width,this will ensure full clamping pressure is applied to the shock bushings and not to the new spacer,
then fit using your M6 bolt,
should work until you get the correct bushings,
sorry best I can come up with at the moment,
Simon.

[Matno]

If only I already had a lathe... (I'm pretty sure I'd NEVER be able to drill a hole that straight through a bolt without more tools than I've got. I've only got a drill - but a nice one, a Dremel, various hand tools, and some clamps. Ok, there's more, but those are the relevant ones. Not even a work bench with a vise. DOH!)

Got my swingarm mount ground down to fit the shock today. Looks pretty good. I took as little as possible from the mount so as to preserve the integrity of my frame. Spent way too much time trying to make sure it was "pretty" and even painted the ground edges with black paint!

I really wish I could have mounted this shock "right-side-up" though. There's just something inherently unnatural looking about having the shock body on the bottom - at least with an air shock. Oh well, I'll cover the whole thing with a Lizard Skin anyway. Have to cover up the "Setup Recommendations" to make sure nobody sees that my shock says "Trek Liquid" on it! (Not that I don't like Trek, I'm just proud of my K2)!