tires and roots

[vr]

ok, i have an old 4500c with 2.1" panaracer fire XC pro tires. until recently i'd been riding pretty easy trails. or at least they didn't have many roots. but i just moved to houston and the trails near where i live are filled with them. i was constantly losing traction, culminating in me slamming neck first into a tree when i was going downhill and couldn't make a sharp turn. i'm not sure if my tires are to blame or if it's just plain inexperience. any recommendations other than finding an easier trail?

[proflex252]

what's your tire pressure?

You shouldn't have more than 2.5 bar (I don't know, some 37psi) in your tires if it's rooty. Or less!
You can try bigger tires. Like 2.25 or 2.35 inches. And then even less pressure like 2.1 bar (31 psi)

But another thought to have an eye on:

What about your suspension?

Does it still work propperly? Or is the damping unit on the front or the rear unserviceable?

You can even think about buying a new fork with more travel. If you have the original cross link fork from girvin it is not enough travel for roots in combination with comfort.

You can use forks with 4 to 5 inches of travel and you will have a lot of fun on the roots.

CU

Matti from Germany with a plenty of roots!

[vr]

danke matti von deutschland.

as far as i know the suspension is still working. but it's not the best to begin with. old judy rox shox fork in the front. stock noleen in the rear. any specific recommendations what shocks would work well for me at 195 lbs? i don't know much about parts so anything short of an exact model and i'd probably get the wrong thing.

[proflex252]

Bitte bitte! Gerne geschehen!

Well! Finding the right shock or fork is often some kind of philosophy.

Weighing 195 lbs it should be stable ones.
Lightweight parts are nothing for you then.
And you should have more travel than now, if you have it rooty.
And there are many parts that fit.

[Frankd3000]

Welcome vr!

Honestly, I can say that i've seen numerous people complain about Fire XC Pro's on roots - particularily when they're wet.

Are the roots you encounter wet? If so then it's the tire. Same can be said in rocky terrain, but predominantly roots.

Further still, the XC Pro's have a tighter tread pattern than other tires (ie, the knobs are closer together). This isn't necessarily the greatest attribute a tire ridden on roots should posess - this also depends on the size of the roots. If they're bigger roots (more than 1" diameter.... no, you don't need to measure them  [smiley=laughing.gif] ) then chances are that you could be on any bike (even a single speed fully rigid) and still have the same problem.

I'd look at;
your experience
tires (pressure first, then a different tire)
suspension

Don't get me wrong - i'm not saying "you don't know how to ride", but maybe you just need a little time to get used to the different terrain. Also, it's a free "fix".

Happy riding and show those roots who's boss. [smiley=nod.gif]

[Matno]

Are the roots you encounter wet? If so then it's the tire.

No way. Granted, I ride XC pros, so I may be biased.(But then again, I don't think the front is as stable as my previous Ritchey Z-max OR the Specialized on my other bike - which has a similar LOOKING tread pattern to the Fire).
However, I don't think ANY tire grips wet roots well (if at all). Few things are more slick than wet roots (I ride some wet algae-covered rocks at low tide that give them a run for their money). I am always skeptical when I hear someone say that one tire is better than another on wet roots because in my experience, the only tires that ACTUALLY grip on wet roots are ones with metal studs. Other than that, your best bet is to try to either hit all roots perfectly perpendicular or VERY carefully.

My 2 cents...

[jimbo]

I am always skeptical when I hear someone say that one tire is better than another on wet roots because in my experience, the only tires that ACTUALLY grip on wet roots are ones with metal studs. Other than that, your best bet is to try to either hit all roots perfectly perpendicular or VERY carefully.

My 2 cents...

Soft compound tires do work better on wet roots.  I have both the regular compound and sticky compounds of Kenda Kenetics.  The tires look identical except for the gummy bear feel of the soft compound version.  The difference is noticable.  

The soft tires still slip but it's not as sudden.  Since the slippage is slower I also have a lot more confidence of keeping the front tire weighted which in turn keeps the front from slipping.  Like Matno says you need to more carefully because the roots are still slippery.

The draw back of the soft tires is they WEAR OUT fast.  Especially the rear tires.  I like to use the soft tire in the front and a harder compound in the back so that I don't have to change the back tire so soon.

Here's an article by Joe Lawill about wet weather riding:

http://www.bikeskills.com/wet.htm

[Dennis]

ahhh, roots. don't you just love riding over roots? I know I do. especially wet ones.

anyway, after years of riding over roots, I concur that the specific tire doesn't much matter when they are wet. however, I have not tried soft compound tires.

tips:
be really loose with your arms and let the bike move over the roots beneath you. that is, allow your elbows to flex and deflex. however, try not to turn your front wheel on a root, that will spell disaster.
try to flow over the roots as much as you can, it may not seem like it, but speed can actually be a friend here, you'll spend less time on the top of a slippery root. this works for bikes from rigids to really cool, custom-painted carbon dual sussers (like you and I have).

also, like Matno said, try to go over the roots so that your direction of travel is perpendicular to the direction of root propagation. (sorry I just got home from teaching physics).

hope this is of some help to you. I am sure that some will disagree with me, some others will want to add more tips, and maybe, just maybe, one or two will agree with me. All I know is, these are things that have worked for me.

as far as equipment, my fav tires for all conditions are Panaracer Dart\Smoke Classics. I also like the WTB weirwolf as a front tire.

happy rooting!
[smiley=groucho.gif]

[kw]

the trail was a little muddy, but not too wet. most of the roots were 2-3 inches in diameter. some bigger. but i think mostly i just got in a little over my head. i told a guy at work about it and he said i rode the ho chi minh trail. i guess it's supposed to be the hardest trail in the park, so i don't feel quite as bad about wiping out. i'll try again this weekend and take a copy of my dental records for easy identification.

[Simon]

Ahh roots,
my local trail is mainly single track in a forest and with all the exposed
roots with the usual UK damp weather, in time I've
got used to these conditions,
its a difficult condition to deal with,just when you think you've got it sussed you find your self picking your self up off the deck,
how I deal with it has mainly already been suggested,
firstly as you approach un-weight the front wheel,controlling a sliding rear wheel is far easier than the front washing out,speed (or more of it)here is ideal,if possible approach the roots square on even if this means taking a less conventional line,eg sweeping a larger radius on a corner and cutting back in so you hit any exposed roots squarely,sometimes the shortest route is not nessessarally the fastest,
anyway practice is the order of the day and soon you'll
be comfortable with the conditions and
what works best for you,
and no it not the tyres,setup,suspension etc
even with these setup to perfection roots will still catch you out.
Simon.