K2 / Proflex Riders Group
General => Tech Forum => Topic started by: agriff404 on April 16, 2013, 01:40:12 pm
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Hello everyone,
I had bought a 1997 proflex 757 a couple years ago with the intention of slowly upgrading it each year as there was no way I could afford a decent new bike and heard such great things about this bike. I have now saved up a bit of money $200 to spend on parts and was looking for suggestions on what to start replacing first.
As far as I can tell, this bike pretty much has original everything for parts. I was thinking either to replace the front shock, front fork, gears, or derailleurs to start. I have no idea what brands would fit or be the best replacement. I am hoping to buy top of the line stuff each time I do buy a new part so that it lasts me and improves the performance. Right now that bike doesn't shift all that well, so was thinking gears and derailleur might be best bet as they are pretty worn out. But the front shock is also pretty bad.
Any suggestions on what I should replace keeping it around $200 or so would be greatly appreciated. The more specific the better as I am quite new to bikes as this is first one I've ridden since I was like 13.
Thanks for your time,
Andrew
Reference to bike and what parts it has as default:
http://www.bikepro.com/directions/a97_proflex/757.html (http://www.bikepro.com/directions/a97_proflex/757.html)
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Any pro mountain bike person would be quick to tell you to stop and not spend any money upgrading that bike. It's not worth it.
Hardcore Proflex loyalists would consider it a crime to upgrade that Girvin fork.
You just can't win.
I'm neither.
But as a proud owner of a Proflex 756, I do lean more towards the latter.
I like my Girvin fork & wish I had one like yours, since mine is damaged & the yellow would look great with my lettering. (hint hint)
Seriously, shoot me a message before you chuck in in the garbage pail.
Nevertheless, I guess it depends on what kind of riding you want to do.
I spend most of my time riding with my kids on paved or mild trails.
I replaced the elastomers and it works great for me.
But I'd think twice about getting "the best" of everything for this bike.
Plus, for $200 you can't buy "the best" of anything for a mountain bike these days.
Your money would be better spent saving up a few more dollars and then scouring craigslist for a $300 - $400 bike with components that are really good.
For myself, I like to ride the Proflex in the park.
Sure the performance is a bit lackluster compared to today's bikes, but I don't care.
I saved up some money myself & bought a Klein Palomino. It's great on rough trails and heavy technical trails.
But I'll be the first to admit, it's more bike than I'll ever need.
My suggestion - The gears, shifters, cables and derailleurs might need some adjusting instead of replacing.
Take it to a bike shop and have them evaluate the gear situation, only fix what's necessary and leave everything else alone.
But that's my opinion.
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I have to agree, just have a shop do a tune up on it and then assess whether you really need to start replacing parts. If it were mine, I would probably consider a better seat post, saddle, a more upright shorter stem and riser bars as well as possibly replacing the front derailleur with an XT. Then just ride and maintain it.
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Have you always wanted a proflex or did you buy it just because you've read good things about Proflex? I only ask because old proflexs can be money pits and 200 could disapear in no time. It's worth bearing in mind that what you have bought is classed as a retro bike. It's not made any more and certain parts are difficult to obtain. You have got to really want a proflex to own one. So before you spend any money, make sure you want to get involved with retro bikes.
I have to agree with the others, if all you want is a tidy bike to ride, think carefully before you spend all your money on a project. Take it to a shop first for a check over. Ride it and see of you like it, then think about your options.
That said, if you particularly want a proflex and get the bike working properly you'll have a lot of fun. Welcome aboard.
Chris
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Thanks for your thoughts!
Just to clear it up - I bought this 2 years ago and have put many miles on it both off-roading and on pavement. It works well enough, but could definitely use some upgrades and now that I have some gift certificates from Christmas, I am hoping to upgrade a part or two.
I had only heard about Proflex once looking on Craigslist 2 years ago and figured that would be my best bang for the buck (was looking to spend 200-300) and got it for $225. It rode decently without any upgrades so figured it was a decent enough starter bike to get me riding - I have done lots of mountain biking on it along with 3 or so rides to and from work every week which is mostly pavement with a few dirt trails and then some light off-road trails with rocks/roots.
I mostly want to upgrade the shocks, gears and derailleurs. I am going to take it to the shop tonight and see if they have any input on what to upgrade first. I do love the bike and it works well enough for my needs right now, but having limited gears and not the most comfortable ride since the shocks are shot. I was thinking the seat post might be worth replacing someday too. I love the look of the bike now so not sure I would want to replace the girvin fork, just the front shock to start.
I think once I get a good front/rear derailleur, gears, front shock and seat post, then this bike will be pretty much perfect for me. I have ridden my friend's new $700-900 bikes and really prefer mine for how it feels and rides.
So if anyone can suggest good parts that will fit my bike and be worth spending the money on, I would appreciate that input so I know what to look for. Hopefully the bike shop owner can tell me this stuff also, but they deal with so many bikes, not sure they would know best or not for this particular bike. The last time I asked them about a new shock, they just told me they had none that fit and would have to order new fork altogether... which I would rather not do. I believe this is the only replacement shock available for me to get: http://www.risseracing.com/airshocks_genesis.shtml (http://www.risseracing.com/airshocks_genesis.shtml)
I may also look at buying a new front tire for mountain biking that I can swap in for when I am not riding to work. Any suggestions on a front tire that will fit my bike and handle rocks/roots and some mud or sandy areas?
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Well I have settled with a tune-up to start. The guy at shop looked at bike quickly and said all I needed was a good tune-up and that the bike should ride just fine. He said all the parts looked to be in good enough condition already and that I definitely shouldn't buy anything until it's been tuned up and THEN they can see if there is anything that needs replacing. I was very hesitant since I hate paying for labor - never used a mechanic, plumber, electrician, etc. as always done own work... but I gave in after a while.
So hopefully the tune-up at least gets all the gears working, and hopefully longer than a year.
I can't imagine they will do anything to make ride more comfortable but hopefully it will at least ride more efficiently.
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Take a bike maintenance class, then over time pick up the mechancal end of it. It's invaluable out on the trail.
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Allow me to pimp out my favorite picture of my 756 as inspiration:
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/deusexaethera/bikes/CIMG5363.jpg) (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/deusexaethera/media/bikes/CIMG5363.jpg.html)
:D
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Take a bike maintenance class, then over time pick up the mechancal end of it. It's invaluable out on the trail.
It's definitely worth learning to do your own maintenance, if you can do mechanics, plumbing and electrical then you shouldn't be phased by working on a PRO~FLEX.
I do virtually all of mine, as the LBS's can't be trusted not to muck things up. and even more important, it's immensely satisfying, see my Hippy Mantra ramble previously:
http://idriders.com/proflex/smf/index.php?topic=3898.msg29505#msg29505 (http://idriders.com/proflex/smf/index.php?topic=3898.msg29505#msg29505)
But you've taken the most practical route at the moment. just don't let them sell you a new bike! A friend of mine took a bike in with a buckled back wheel and needing a new rear derailleur (cause of the buckled wheel) and they said the bike wasn't worth working on and they should buy a new bike!
Use the exploded diagrams available on this site for your bike and look up on the internet for other maintenance instructions, Park Tools is very useful as is the sadly missed Guru "Sheldon Brown".
Col.
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Glad youve gone for the service first and hope it works out well. As well as Risse shocks there is still Noleen J4 shocks which will fit with no modifications.
Now that we know your history a little its easier for us to advise you on your best route forward with upgrades etc, although you seem to be on the right track anyway.
Keep us informed how you get on after the service and good luck!
Post a picture of your bike so we can get a better idea of the condition.
Chris
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(https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/487814_396347130424429_130030979_n.jpg)
If the tuning gets all the gears working properly, my next main concern would be some added comfort for all the rocks and roots I deal with (to avoid the headaches). I am not sure if a seat post would be a good investment for that rather than looking at the shocks. I do have the spring coils which the guy at the shop said was good to have since they didn't originally come on it.
Would have to see if this would fit OK, but I imagine it will, but this product got great reviews:
http://www.amazon.com/Cane-Creek-Thudbuster-Travel-Seatpost/dp/B000T3BYH6/ref=sr_1_3?s=cycling&ie=UTF8&qid=1366769790&sr=1-3&keywords=seat+post (http://www.amazon.com/Cane-Creek-Thudbuster-Travel-Seatpost/dp/B000T3BYH6/ref=sr_1_3?s=cycling&ie=UTF8&qid=1366769790&sr=1-3&keywords=seat+post)
Any input on that?
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That's a size small frame. Looks like the seat is way up there also. How tall are you?
You do not need a susp. seat post. Just need to work on the rear susp. you already have. You may be too big for this bike.
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If the tuning gets all the gears working properly, my next main concern would be some added comfort for all the rocks and roots I deal with (to avoid the headaches). I am not sure if a seat post would be a good investment for that rather than looking at the shocks. I do have the spring coils which the guy at the shop said was good to have since they didn't originally come on it.
Would have to see if this would fit OK, but I imagine it will, but this product got great reviews:
[url]http://www.amazon.com/Cane-Creek-Thudbuster-Travel-Seatpost/dp/B000T3BYH6/ref=sr_1_3?s=cycling&ie=UTF8&qid=1366769790&sr=1-3&keywords=seat+post[/url] ([url]http://www.amazon.com/Cane-Creek-Thudbuster-Travel-Seatpost/dp/B000T3BYH6/ref=sr_1_3?s=cycling&ie=UTF8&qid=1366769790&sr=1-3&keywords=seat+post[/url])
Any input on that?
Yep, that's a Small, so are you "small"? I'm 5'8" and I ride Mediums
757's always came with Noleens and coil springs, the man in the LBS is thinking of the older generation of bikes with ODS and MCU's
Don't bother with the suspension seatpost, the money would be better spent elsewhere and quite likely our main concern here is that the size of the frame may be the limiting factor on it's ride-ability for you.
If it's not too personal , what's your height and weight?
Col.
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That pic is from the craigslist ad, so not after I got my hands on it. I lowered the seat way down and sawed some of seat post off if I remember correctly. I am 5'9" and weigh 160.
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I would say that bike is way yoo small for you. Text book says you should be riding at least a medium. You must find it cramped? But if you like it and are happy with the size , I would look into having your noleen shocks serviced. You will be amazed the difference it makes to the ride quality.
Chris
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I suppose a little cramped, but I like it for the most part. I have ridden my friend's large frame bikes and didn't really find them any more comfortable, but not sure I have ever tried a medium frame.
So you would say have the shocks serviced, rather than replaced? I found this site: https://j6shocks.com/Mountain_Bike_Services.html
Is that the best or only place to get them serviced?
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Servicing them will probably be your easiest and cheapest option over buying new replacements or making something else fit. Thats the problem with Proflexs, especialy the '56 and '57 range, as the rear suspension is specific to them. Vectors and crosslinks are the same with not much else on the market that fits them.
Noleen are not the only place but they are obviously the original suppliers. Over here in UK we take them to a motorcycle/car suspension service Center and they do the service as sending to Noleen in USA takes too long. Have a look what's local to you.
Chris
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I'm 5'7" and I weigh 175-180, and I ride a Medium frame with a 350lb/in coil spring on the rear shock. I also have a Noleen NR-4 rear shock which has compression- and rebound-damping adjustments, whereas your bike has a Noleen NR-1, which has no adjustments. I suspect the reason it rides poorly is because the bike is too small for you, and the spring rate is probably wrong as well. Not being able to adjust the damping characteristics can't be helping any.
Taking apart all the pivots, cleaning and relubing them, and tightening the bushings just enough so the swingarm slowly droops under its own weight, should help a bit, but ultimately the suspension geometry is what it is. If you're used to less-expensive bikes (Pro-Flexes originally sold for $1500-2500 when new), you might be expecting the suspension to be very "plush", which is a marketing buzzword that means "too damn soft because you bought suspension and you want to feel it working all the time". Whereas, Pro-Flexes were essentially designed to be "soft-tails", which means they were designed to round-off the edges a bit when you hit a bump, nothing more.
Technically the suspension travel is in the 3" range, but it in the real world it doesn't perform the same as 3" suspension on a newer bike. Because Pro-Flex used a single-pivot suspension design, the shock has to be tuned pretty stiff to avoid bobbing while pedaling. Also, because the spring rate from a coil spring isn't progressive like it is with a compressed-air shock, the spring has to be stiffer than a comparable compressed-air spring to avoid bottoming-out over relatively small bumps. (there *are* progressive-rate coil springs available, but they make pedal-bob worse at any given spring rate, because most of the stiffness is at the end of the shock travel.)
The good news is that your 757 has a forward-mounted main pivot, unlike my 756 which has a rear-mounted pivot, so the pedal-bob effect is less of a factor for you than it is for me. It's still a factor, though.
Servicing the shock will certainly help a bit, because I doubt it's ever been serviced before; replacing it with an NR-4 or a Risse shock would help even more because you can tune it to suit your preference; but ultimately your best defense against getting a headache is to lift your butt off the saddle when riding over rough ground.
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Thanks, Fyr.
Well bad news - I took it for the tune-up and he called me and told me that the frame is cracked and to start looking for a new bike as he doesn't recommend riding this one anymore. He wasn't there when I picked it up, but the only cracks I was able to find was on the rear Pro Active yellow part, which I wouldn't consider the frame, but maybe that is what it is considered as I am not sure what to call it otherwise. I tried searching to see if that part was replaceable but couldn't find anything. Is it considered a rear fork? Is that part replaceable or is the bike junk now? As far as I could tell, the blue frame was still fine.
The two cracks were on the smaller poles on the yellow aluminum piece that runs up to the rear shock
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Most likely the two cracks on the rear strut (that connects the swing arm to the shock) are where the bonding joint is. Further inspection by someone familiar with bonded parts would be in order.
The crack in the swing arm could be solved by finding another swing arm on ebay, craigslist or on these forums.
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Post a picture of the 'so called crack'. It sounds to me like its just cracks in the paint on the rear strut. Nothing to worry about. Like I said, these bikes are retro and most people don't know what they are looking at as far as Proflex is concerned. Don't throw it away just yet , let us see it first!!
Chris
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Yea, that is what I was thinking as well - couldn't really tell if they were cracks in the aluminum or just the paint. The cracks are perfectly circular which I thought was weird. But the guy at bike shop loves to talk about how he's been doing this for lots of years whenever I doubt anything he says.
I don't have bike on me right now to get a pic as it is at parents, but will get one as soon as I can. May try scraping some of the paint away as well at the cracks and see if that reveals anything.
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Share the pictures before you scrape the paint off. Would be a shame to have to paint and didn't need to.
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Have a read of the thread "Cracked rear struts" , posted by Rossco a week or two ago. It sounds like you've got exactly the same situation as him. Like we said then, the rear struts are bonded together so a crack in the paint is nothing to worry about. There are photos to compare yours to as well.
Welcome to the wacky world of Proflex ownership where most local bike shops will tell you they are too old and no good for anything. Don't believe them!!!
Chris
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Yes, the crack is exactly like the one shown on the referenced thread: (http://idriders.com/proflex/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3958.0;attach=799;image)
I talked to the guy that did the tune-up and he said those were the 2 cracks he was referring to. He doesn't recommend riding it still. Is he just covering himself or is the bike safe to ride?
Anything I can do to ensure it is safe to ride?
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Those are seams where the adhesive bonds the strut legs to the crown, they are not cracks. His concern may be in part a desire to sell you a new bike. Grasp the strut crown and torque it by hand. I doubt there will be any movement.
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Honestly your strut is fine! He is probably just covering himself for lawsuit reasons!
Chris
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Thanks guys - glad to hear I don't have to ride my old bike with zero suspension and look to save for a new bike. Not going to bother doing a tune-up with that shop anymore I don't think. They have not impressed me in a few areas. I will just buy a few parts from them to use up the gift cert. I have with them and just do tune up best I can myself probably. I got most of the gears working last year, but I think the problem is the rear derailleur gears are pretty worn imo, as well as the front crankset has some pretty good chipped teeth. They cut all my cables before noticing crack, so need to buy new wires as well. I am sure with Youtube and Google, I can figure most things out and learn something along the way.
If anyone has suggestions on the rear derailleur to get or the crankset, I appreciate input on those.