need help choosing rear shock for 5000

[chainsaw]

I want to replace my rear Smartshock on my 5000. I am leaning towards a Risse spring shock. I weigh 210lbs and am a XC rider.



what I have learned from the shock fit guide on this web site, is that the Risse should fit exactly, no problems, no alterations.



according to the Risse website only the three rear air shocks will fit.



so I wrote Risse, and Kevin there wrote me back that in addition to the 3 air shocks, the Jupiter 5R will fit my bike. it is the one with the remote resevoir.



I would rather buy the Jupiter 5 because it is less money, and because I don't really want a remote resevoir.



went to the Jupiter 5 web page at the Risse Web Site, and it lists an 8" 203mm and a 8.5" 216mm, whereas I know that I am supposed to use a 8.25" 210mm eye to eye size shock. Same thing with the Jupiter 5R, I would have to choose between 8" and 8.5 inch.



so when the fit chart on this website lists the Risse as a bolt on replacement for the stock SmartShock, does it mean that I have to choose between a little long and a little short? and does it mean that I have to choose one of the 3 air shocks or the expensive Jupiter with the remote resevoir?

[Oz-SUB]

I'd go with the 8.5", especially if the stroke (and therefore the wheel travel) will be more than with the original shock.  Did your new front fork lift the front of the bike up from original?  If so then 8.5" would be concrete decision, for me anyway.

[chainsaw]

no, the new fork I have did not raise the front, atleast I don't think it did. it has the exact same amount of travel, anyway. my old one and new one were both rated at 4inches of travel.

[Matno]

Don't overlook the Stratos shocks! They make great spring shocks that will fit perfectly. The Helix Expert isn't too expensive compared to other shocks. I love my Helix Pro and recommend it to anyone who asks.

As for the Risse, I'm not sure how they size their spring shocks. I have a feeling that the reason the Jupiter w/o the remote reservoir will fit while the other one won't is because of frame clearance (that remote model has a longer narrow part going to the bushings, the regular model doesn't look like it would fit). Either way, the Jupiter is not a XC shock, even if you do weigh 210 lbs!

The air shocks come with the exact eye to eye length of 8.25 if you order them specifically for your bike from Risse. I have an older Astro-5 that I just got a couple of weeks ago, and I really like it. I like the fact that you can service it yourself fairly easily (or pretty cheaply if you have Risse do it). It rides quite nicely. Air adjustability is great. I don't think these shocks have any real durability issues as long as you're not actually doing huge drops on your "XC" rides...

[Andy]

I would say the decision lies with your preference between, having a slightly slacked feel (for downhill & freeride feel) or having a quicker steering crosscounty feel.

I have tried a few different variations of shocks and ride heights on both the front & rear. When I first swapped my x-link for a 4" Marzocchi, I could not believe the difference when decending or clearing rock gardens. then I tried swapping the rear shock to a 7 7/8" fox. Too Much Slack!

Finally I got a 8.5" Fox Vanilla RC this definately raised the rear end and once again gave me a more cross county feel that I had with the X-link and the NR2 shock. I did not like this. So now I bought a Marzocchi Z1 w/ 5" of travel. This seems to bring me back to where I like it - slightly slacked, but not so much that climbs are more difficult.

So If you want a more cross county feel then get the 8.5" if you like the way it rides now then get the 8".

The other option regarding the 8.5 is to allow enough sag to recreate the stace you had with the smart shock.

In the end the difference will be slight either way you go. good luck!  

[Scott]

Drop a note to Bill Larson at wlarson@stdairy.com  He just quoted me $200 for a new Astro5 which is a very nice Risse airshock.  Being an XC rider you'l like it's lightness but keep in mind they've also used these for DH so it's an all around performer.

[Matno]

I have tried a few different variations of shocks and ride heights on both the front & rear. When I first swapped my x-link for a 4" Marzocchi, I could not believe the difference when decending or clearing rock gardens. then I tried swapping the rear shock to a 7 7/8" fox. Too Much Slack!

That's interesting. On my two bikes I have switched around between stock SmartShocks, Risse Astro 5, and Stratos Helix Pro. The first two are stock length, the Stratos is 7 7/8" and I honestly can't tell a bit of difference in head angle/steering. I'm sure it's there, but it's not big.

I've run various sag settings on all three shocks (four actually if you count two different Smart's with different weight springs) and found that I like the Stratos' ride quality the best, though I'm not sure if that's because of the slightly shorter rear end or the shock itself. Not many have tried the 8.5" shocks, but those that have posted haven't seemed to like it as much. Many of us run 7.875 and are happy as can be...

On a similar note, I did notice a change in steering when I rode a C'dale Jekyll. (It has that adjustable rear shock that you can change the angle of). I put it as slack as it would go, and that was the best for me - even for XC riding. Maybe the difference there is more than it is with these frames. Who knows...

[chainsaw]

thanks for everyone's help.  I had decided against a rear airshock. but let me run by my reasons. I might be basing my decision on erroneous conceptions. now I want to reconsider and think about the Risse Astro-5.

am I right or wrong in thinking:

- I thought that a spring shock would be better for me because it would be more durable, eaisier to work on. don't air shocks produce leaks?

-I thought you had to pump up air shocks and measure the pressure in them. two tires are enough for me to do that with.

I do not do any big jumps. I like to buy a little air when I hit a bump on a  straightaway, but this is a very very small jump indeed. but again, I weigh 210 lbs.

the trails I ride do have a lot of tight twist turns. so I guess I want to stay away from any of this steering slack.

I am having trouble learning to do wheelie drops. someone suggested raising my handlebars or getting a riser handlebar to help me lift my front wheel. does this have any relationship with steering slack? or will steering slack be affected by raising my bars?

[GrimJack]

Ok, here we go.

Coilover shocks are definitely more durable.  This is not to say that an air shock will produce problems for you, it might work perfectly forever - but your chances of this are lower than if you get a coilover.  Inversely, getting a coilover does not mean that it will work forever - plenty of people blow their coilovers, too.

You will need to pump up and check the air pressure on an air shock on a regular basis.

Clydesdale class riders (200 pounds +) normally stick to coilovers just because of the durability issue.  When you are used to breaking things (which this class of riders does regularly) you just buy the toughest stuff you can in the hopes that it will last a little longer, even if it's not appropriate.  Ask any big rider - do you have an extra tough stem?  The answer is invariably yes.  Has anyone ever seen someone break a stem?  Hell no, you'll snap bars, forks, or frames long before the stem goes.

Slacker angles, higher bars (through risers, headset spacers, or higher rise stems), or a shorter stem will all make wheelie drops easier.  So will preloading your fork, then pulling up as you wheelie. Unless you are riding a recumbent, it will be possible to wheelie drop properly with whatever setup you have.

Slacker steering doesn't really affect your turning that much - there will be more wheel flop, meaning that the bike will rather turn than go straight, but not to the point that you cannot control it! Plus, it depends on what you ride.  Put a DH bike next to an XC bike on flat ground, and the DH bike looks like it's going to fall over backwards.  Put the same two bikes on a steep hill, and the rolese reverse, the XC bike looks like it's going over the front.

Air shocks are popular with the XC crowd, because they are hugely weight dependant.  The clydesdale XC crowd doesn't worry about it much.  

[Matno]

Ok, here we go.
You will need to pump up and check the air pressure on an air shock on a regular basis.

Slight correction: You only need to pump up a BAD air shock on a regular basis. Good ones should hold their air perfectly. They are not quite the same as tubes which are semi-porous and tend to slowly lose air over time (especially when they're just sitting there).

On the other hand, I agree with Dave that coil overs are probably a better bet for a bigger rider like yourself.

Another plus with the coilovers is that they tend to handle emergencies much better. For example, if you blow a seal 15 miles from the trailhead, with a coilover, you can still ride home without too much hassle. You'll bounce a lot more than usual, but you'll still have "suspension." With an airshock, you're in trouble. I recently rode a borrowed bike with a leaky Fox Float. If the trail hadn't been padded with 6 inches of snow, it would have been torture. (It was bad enough that the front shocks were just elastomers that were rock hard). Plus, the head angle was REALLY slack.

As for riser bars, they won't affect "slack" at all. The only thing that affects the head tube angle is the fork you use (and it's axel to crown height). I highly recommend raising your bars if you're doing any kind of technical riding. I did (from 3 to 4 inches), and it made all the difference in my confidence on technical stuff. Both flat and downhill. Between the riser bars, a taller fork, and a few spacers, I ended up raising the bars 3 full inches. I'll never look back! They're about level with my saddle now (when it's in XC position). I can lower my saddle for long technical descents, which is nice.

[d1sc0ver]

Matno's right!  

I have an 855 which is an XC racing frame, trouble is, I'm not exactly an XC lover...I'm an aggressive all mountain trail rider w/ light freeride tendencies wherever I can find opportunities...I ride up and then down the mountain.  

I have a Stratos Strata Pro on the rear, this is an extremely light air shock...I'm 200 lbs. and have been riding this shock for 3 years...it's held at 180 psi. for that whole period.  

I have abused this bike to no end and the rear suspension has been the least of my problems.  I also have gone to a Psylo, 1" headset spacer and 2" riser bar which lays me back quite a bit from stock.  I keep my saddle level w/ my bars w/ 3" in front for the climb, and then lower the saddle and increase to 5" in front for the descent...it works out great.  The rear, of course is not designed for this and more travel back there would be ideal...but it works for me...for now.

[GrimJack]

Another slight correction.

Two more things that can affect your headtube angle are your rear shock eye to eye ( i2i ) measurement and the size of your rear wheel.

[Matno]

Got me!   That'll teach me to talk in absolutes...

[chainsaw]

I want to thank everyone for their help.

Ok, to sum this up....

I am going to stick with my plan to go with a coil over.

I am going to get an 8 inch eye to eye

I am either going to get a

1. Stratos Helix Expert for $260

2. Fox Vanilla R          $208

3. Risse Jupiter-5 and install it upside down $350

don't want the Vanilla RC because I hear it is heavier than the others.
I am leaning towards the Stratos.

thanks again, for everyone's help