K2 / Proflex Riders Group
General => Tech Forum => Topic started by: Simon on May 06, 2008, 03:16:29 pm
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I've been getting asked so many times lately about info on my sealed bearing system that I thought I'd upload all the info I have here so anyone can read it at there leisure.Maybe it could be stickied.
You will notice a couple of inconsistencies as things changed as it was developed but from memory the main things are you need only four 2mm thick shims not the mix of 2mm and 1mm shims.
The depth of the threads in the through shaft where increased.
Oh and it works on an 856 with a different shaft I haven't uploaded the drawing for this as it may confuse things.
Simon.
(http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/6559/lastscan3go1.jpg)
(http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/6039/lastscan15lv4.jpg)
(http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/7936/lastscan16hg0.jpg)
(http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/9286/lastscan17fo2.jpg)
(http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/2075/lastscan100vp0.jpg)
(http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/8044/phto0028am6.jpg)
(http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/8986/phtoreamerpz4.jpg)
Above reaming the swingarm pivots to accept the sealed bearings. I do this with the pinch bolts fitted and they are
screwed in very lightly nipped up,this helps prevent the pivot hole oppening up when reaming and giving a concentric hole.
(http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/2520/phtosealedbearingnv5.jpg)
(http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/6639/lastscan20kn7.jpg)
(http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/3681/lastscan21xq3.jpg)
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Thanks Simon! I haven't needed to do this yet, but I'm sure it will come in handy in the future! :)
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([url]http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/8986/phtoreamerpz4.jpg[/url])
Above reaming the swingarm pivots to accept the sealed bearings. I do this with the pinch bolts fitted and they are
screwed in very lightly nipped up,this helps prevent the pivot hole oppening up when reaming and giving a concentric hole.
Did you make up that reamer yourself? ???
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No its just a standard adjustable reamer (I have a few in varous sizes) that I happen to have.
Its the sort of tool that was used for reaming steering king pin bushes on old cars that have a beam axle.
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Gonna save this away for future reference too, might be a daft question but which bike is the dimensioned drawing of shaft for. It says 4500 on the title, is that the same for all carbon swing arms? (Mine's a 957)
cheers
Ade
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No its just a standard adjustable reamer (I have a few in varous sizes) that I happen to have.
Its the sort of tool that was used for reaming steering king pin bushes on old cars that have a beam axle.
Ok, I think I found one called an "Extra long adjustable replacable bladed reamer".
McMaster.com Part # 3027A17
Man, these kind of tools are not common in my parts. What do you think Simon?
Terry
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No its just a standard adjustable reamer (I have a few in varous sizes) that I happen to have.
Its the sort of tool that was used for reaming steering king pin bushes on old cars that have a beam axle.
Ok, I think I found one called an "Extra long adjustable replacable bladed reamer".
McMaster.com Part # 3027A17
Man, these kind of tools are not common in my parts. What do you think Simon?
Terry
Sounds the right sort of tool, you need to make sure its adjustable from at least 20mm upto 24mm+ and that
it has the centralizing taper guide to ensure perfect alinement.
Simon.
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Gonna save this away for future reference too, might be a daft question but which bike is the dimensioned drawing of shaft for. It says 4500 on the title, is that the same for all carbon swing arms? (Mine's a 957)
cheers
Ade
Hi Ade
the shaft drawing is for the 4500/5500 and Oz ONLY
however I do have a shaft drawing for the 856/857/857/957 as well Here
Simon
(http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/1990/lastscan2ju9.jpg)
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Gonna save this away for future reference too, might be a daft question but which bike is the dimensioned drawing of shaft for. It says 4500 on the title, is that the same for all carbon swing arms? (Mine's a 957)
cheers
Ade
Ade, Simon did my Oz(4500), and my 957 swingarm at the same time and they both use similar parts, and work amazing. I have only 2 more carbon swingarms to convert and they are both 957 swingarms.(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-6/1036595/957sealedbearingconversion.JPG)
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Hello all,
I'm going to build and install the swingarm sealed bearing system on my K2/Proflex 4000 this weekend and am wondering: how much material will I end up reaming off? Is the reaming necessary just to create a perfectly round mating surface for the bearings, or is it needed or increase the inner diameter of the swingarm mount sheel so it can even accommodate the bearings?
Thanks in advance,
- Doug
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Hello all,
I'm going to build and install the swingarm sealed bearing system on my K2/Proflex 4000 this weekend and am wondering: how much material will I end up reaming off? Is the reaming necessary just to create a perfectly round mating surface for the bearings, or is it needed or increase the inner diameter of the swingarm mount sheel so it can even accommodate the bearings?
Thanks in advance,
- Doug
Both your reaming to increase the diameter from (if I remember correctly) 22mm to 24mm so the bearings will fit and also ensuring the diameter is perfectly round.
In an ideal world you would have a machine shop line bore them.
Simon.
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Hey all,
I received my 7075 spindle and spacers in the mail from the machinist a few days ago...really nice work! The spindle is super light due to the through-drilling, and the spacers stop definitively at the spindle ridge.
My only question, though, is how tight the bearing-to-spindle fit should be? My bearings seem like they'd require a little force to get onto the spindle...is that correct?
Dropped my swingarm and bearings off at the local machine shop this morning...not sure when it will be done (hopefully not more than a few days), and then we'll see how this thing goes together :-)
Thanks again for posting all the info here!
- Doug :-)
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So I picked up my reamed swingarm at the machine shop today...and my otherwise reasonable shop made me feel a bit reamed too, $80 lighter when I left. They said one reason it took that long (and that much $$) was because they had to think hard about how to clamp it (so as to not break the bond between the allow & carbon) and that there were no flat areas to use as a reference. I'm thinking they used a line boring machine, as opposed to the hand reamer in the pictures. Well, the work looks great, and I needed a little project, so I'm not too upset about the cost. At this point I think I'm into this project for $140...and surprisingly the bearings were the cheapest part. An experiences machinist probably could've done it for the cost of the bearings, bolts & 7075 stock, seemingly about $30. Sadly, I am not a skilled machinist :-)
I also found some nice titanium, M8x25 flanged hex bolts on eBay (seller is nj-cycles). The pics aren't as accurate for the product you receive...on the bolts they sent the threads go nearly alll the way to the flange, and a run with an M8 die took them all the way to the top.
Tonight I'll start the reassembly process...this is the fun part :-)
- Doug
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DugB, the assembly is going to be SOOOO easy! Then you are done forever. Too bad, because nothing left to tinker there. ::)
Terry
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Hey!
That's nice to hear...I do know that I have some light reduction to do on the spindle end ODs, as the bearings were a tight fit when I test fitted them. A temperature differential would probably take care of it, but I didn't want to have a hard time disassembling it the next time around. Sound like the right approach to try to reduce the diameter a thousandth or so?
Thanks!
- Doug :-)
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Hey!
That's nice to hear...I do know that I have some light reduction to do on the spindle end ODs, as the bearings were a tight fit when I test fitted them. A temperature differential would probably take care of it, but I didn't want to have a hard time disassembling it the next time around. Sound like the right approach to try to reduce the diameter a thousandth or so?
Thanks!
- Doug :-)
Mine fit just right. I think you are right to take a bit off so the bearings slide on.
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Hello all,
I installed my sealed bearing upgrade this weekend and WOW, there was a noticeable difference. With the Risse Astro 5 installed on the rear I really noticed a reduction in stiction...but there's an issue with my Astro 5 right now, so mid-ride I swapped it out with the stock Noleen unit, which also seemed to perform better.
As per Terry's suggestion I chucked the spindle in my drill press and applied a fine sandpaper to the spindle ends while spinning to make the bearing installation a little smoother. Worked like a charm :-)
I'll upload a few pictures when I get a chance. Thanks again to everyone who created the tech specs and installation instructions!
- Doug :-)
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Hello all,
I installed my sealed bearing upgrade this weekend and WOW, there was a noticeable difference. With the Risse Astro 5 installed on the rear I really noticed a reduction in stiction...but there's an issue with my Astro 5 right now, so mid-ride I swapped it out with the stock Noleen unit, which also seemed to perform better.
As per Terry's suggestion I chucked the spindle in my drill press and applied a fine sandpaper to the spindle ends while spinning to make the bearing installation a little smoother. Worked like a charm :-)
I'll upload a few pictures when I get a chance. Thanks again to everyone who created the tech specs and installation instructions!
- Doug :-)
This was the whole reason why I elected to post the drawings and instructions of my design.
I'm very pleased to hear your happy with it all ;), so far this system has been around for 4 or 5 years now and the very first one I did is still running strong and is still running the origonal bearings.
Yet to hear of a failure.
Simon
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So do you think you'll ever produce a complete kit for those of us that aren't so inclined to assemble their own kit?
Frankly I have no clue where to get the tubing machined and threaded...
You could make a few bucks off this selling the kit on eBay to schleps like me!! :)
Just a thought.
Thanks!
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Is this system aplicable to the 955 ?
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Is this system aplicable to the 955 ?
That would be YES! I think that is the World Cup Design frame.
Terry
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Update to my Oz sealed bearing conversion.
All has been well since I installed it, but lately it had developed a creak which I mistook for the cable ferrule. Over the last couple of months it got loud enough that I carried an oiler with me. On my my ride last weekend it came back and pinpointed it to the swingarm pivot. Thinking the worst I took it apart but could find nothing, but did notice a bit of flaring where the large diameter on the shaft flared where in contact with the inner washer. Ah-ha, looks like the washers were a tad loose on the pivot flange insert and moving ever so little but when dry conveyed a creak thru the frame.
I ran it up to the shop and turned 1 mm off the length of the large diameter and 1 mm off the overall length. I think that some frames may be slightly different and mine was a bit narrower.
See the original diameter lengths on this drawing. The large diameter length is now 52.8mm, and overall length is now 83mm.
(http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/6039/lastscan15lv4.jpg)
Terry
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Update to my Oz sealed bearing conversion.
All has been well since I installed it, but lately it had developed a creak which I mistook for the cable ferrule. Over the last couple of months it got loud enough that I carried an oiler with me. On my my ride last weekend it came back and pinpointed it to the swingarm pivot. Thinking the worst I took it apart but could find nothing, but did notice a bit of flaring where the large diameter on the shaft flared where in contact with the inner washer. Ah-ha, looks like the washers were a tad loose on the pivot flange insert and moving ever so little but when dry conveyed a creak thru the frame.
I ran it up to the shop and turned 1 mm off the length of the large diameter and 1 mm off the overall length. I think that some frames may be slightly different and mine was a bit narrower.
See the original diameter lengths on this drawing. The large diameter length is now 52.8mm, and overall length is now 83mm.
([url]http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/6039/lastscan15lv4.jpg[/url])
Terry
Sorry to hear this Terry but I'm glad you've been able to sort it out easily.Trouble is the drawing was done to exacting measurements from my bike and as you point out there probably is a tolerance difference between some bikes,I hope this turns out to be a one off.
I suspect if the shaft and shims had been made from steel this may not of happened.
Simon
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No worries Simon.
Better to be a tad big than too small. Seriously this conversion is gold. ;)
Terry
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I am liking the look of this conversion for my 855 and the newest addition to the shop too. Upon disassembling the 856 pivot, I found that the through-hole is not concentric in the frame pivot. ?????
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I am liking the look of this conversion for my 855 and the newest addition to the shop too. Upon disassembling the 856 pivot, I found that the through-hole is not concentric in the frame pivot. ?????
Unfortunatly some 856's are like that ( I suspect poor quality control), I had one like that and another one that was fine.
I never got around to working out how to over come this, sorry.
Simon
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That frame was the one that was recycled. The present one looks better. Could bore them concentric and increase the size of the axle. Meanwhile, I'll just keep on assembling and ride.
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Simon, your conversion is great in terms of performance. How much weight does this mod add?
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Simon, your conversion is great in terms of performance. How much weight does this mod add?
Oh, you are going to make me tear mine apart a weigh it? Now I have to know. :D :D :D
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hi all
looking at doing this conversion on my 5500 ,have stripped swing arm off ,so now i am left with frame do i need to remove the metal inserts from frame or does the new shaft fit inside these ?
thxs john
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Leave the frame pieces in there. The shaft slips right in.
Terry
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nice one ,thxs for the reply.
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Any chance the pictures can be put back up, as the don't seem downloadable.
Also, what type of aluminum do you recommend?
Thank you,
Richard
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I think it's on the blueprint/spec sheet, but IIRC it's 6061?
- Doug :-)
P.S. Driving back from Hilton Head right now with the 955 and 956LE on top of the car :-)
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I couldn't get a detailed enough picture to read it. But thank you!
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Just wondering - what happened to all the images from these threads? Just wondering if the sealed bearing diagrams (for the XX00 and X57 frames) are still available?
Thanks in advance!
- Doug :-)
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Here are links to my copies of the pivot diagrams for 957 and Evo.
http://idriders.com/proflex/smf/MGalleryItem.php?id=611 (http://idriders.com/proflex/smf/MGalleryItem.php?id=611)
http://idriders.com/proflex/smf/MGalleryItem.php?id=610 (http://idriders.com/proflex/smf/MGalleryItem.php?id=610)
Only the Evo is a sealed bearing
Col.
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Colin! Thanks for those! :-)
I could have sworn that someone has created an X57 version of the sealed bearing setup and posted pictures of it a while back, but maybe I'm mistaken.
- Doug
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Here are links to my copies of the pivot diagrams for 957 and Evo.
[url]http://idriders.com/proflex/smf/MGalleryItem.php?id=611[/url] ([url]http://idriders.com/proflex/smf/MGalleryItem.php?id=611[/url])
[url]http://idriders.com/proflex/smf/MGalleryItem.php?id=610[/url] ([url]http://idriders.com/proflex/smf/MGalleryItem.php?id=610[/url])
Only the Evo is a sealed bearing
Col.
Actually the EVO frame has needle bearings that are not sealed.
It would be interesting to recover pictures of the actual sealed bearing modification.
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Yes, serviceguy, you're quite right, needle not sealed!
Ahhh, Doug, you mean the conversions that some people have done on here to x57's, Evo's and Oz's!
Yes, these really happened!
Here's Simon's thread on it and you're quite right, the photos have disappeared! any Admin know why?
http://idriders.com/proflex/smf/index.php?topic=2927.msg20677;topicseen#msg20677 (http://idriders.com/proflex/smf/index.php?topic=2927.msg20677;topicseen#msg20677)
I'm trying to upload some files that I have on these, but can't do a Mass Upload!
I've considered doing this mod on my bikes, but as I have spare pivot kits, It's not too urgent!
(but, I do speculate whether the bearing conversion could result in less "stiction" in the pivot...?)
Here are links to my copies of the pivot diagrams for 957 and Evo.
[url]http://idriders.com/proflex/smf/MGalleryItem.php?id=611[/url] ([url]http://idriders.com/proflex/smf/MGalleryItem.php?id=611[/url])
[url]http://idriders.com/proflex/smf/MGalleryItem.php?id=610[/url] ([url]http://idriders.com/proflex/smf/MGalleryItem.php?id=610[/url])
Only the Evo is a sealed bearing
Col.
Actually the EVO frame has needle bearings that are not sealed.
It would be interesting to recover pictures of the actual sealed bearing modification.