K2 / Proflex Riders Group
General => Tech Forum => Topic started by: Spokes on March 24, 2014, 01:47:54 am
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I've been playing with this for a few years but not had the time to get stuck into it properly. I have two 4500/OZ frames and my idea was to build one traditional one modern. The traditional one I built but never used it as the frame was the wrong size. It sat unused until I swapped the frame with Colin for the size I wanted, ie large. Another year or so goes by and I've still not had time to do anything - why is life always so busy?!
Anyway, this weekend I did grab a couple of hours in the shed and finally made a start. I'm going to build the modern one first as I've got two other traditional Proflexs I use regularly so the variety will be interesting. Also I've invested a fair bit of money into the parts and they're wasting not being built up.
So this is the frame I swopped with Colin
(http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j413/proflexk2/IMG_0332.jpg) (http://s1084.photobucket.com/user/proflexk2/media/IMG_0332.jpg.html)
Chris
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This is the mockup I did with the new large frame I swopped with Colin
(http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j413/proflexk2/IMG_0403.jpg) (http://s1084.photobucket.com/user/proflexk2/media/IMG_0403.jpg.html)
I'm updating the suspension by using Fox Tallas forks, adjustable from 90mm to 130mm. I figure 90mm should keep things standard and then I can play with the extra travel if I need it.
The rear shock is a Fox RP23 although I think in this picture it's my spare Fox Float R. The RP23 has 3 way pro pedal as well as damping control so plenty of adjustment to confuse there as well. For this shock conversion the bottom bushes for the swing arm are a standard size but the top frame bushes I machine down from an oversize blank set. The bushes are available from MOJO SUSPENSION. The shock is fitted up side down otherwise you have to clearance the frame a little.
Chris
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So this Saturday I fitted a Hammerhead adapter so as I can run the Hope Tech X2 disc brakes I've bought for it. I've not done one before but it was straight forward and no problem. It lined up easily and the calliper lined up perfectly.
Holes marked for Hammerhead
(http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j413/proflexk2/B815EC4D-53AD-40B5-9FD0-16D45747FA21.jpg) (http://s1084.photobucket.com/user/proflexk2/media/B815EC4D-53AD-40B5-9FD0-16D45747FA21.jpg.html)
I drilled through with a 1.5mm bit first and then the correct size before tapping the threads.
(http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j413/proflexk2/8FF18309-620B-4BC7-A884-574111651BA3.jpg) (http://s1084.photobucket.com/user/proflexk2/media/8FF18309-620B-4BC7-A884-574111651BA3.jpg.html)
Then tap
(http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j413/proflexk2/422D8292-9194-498B-8256-3B7D928ACEE8.jpg) (http://s1084.photobucket.com/user/proflexk2/media/422D8292-9194-498B-8256-3B7D928ACEE8.jpg.html)
When the Hammerhead is attached it looks pretty cool I think and really is a good fit.
(http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j413/proflexk2/46CB32ED-CE42-4E8F-8294-07F4661A5B43.jpg) (http://s1084.photobucket.com/user/proflexk2/media/46CB32ED-CE42-4E8F-8294-07F4661A5B43.jpg.html)
Chris
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There seems to be an unintentional Easton theme going on here. The wheels are Easton EA70 and were on sale so too good to refuse. I like the all black colour of them and think they match the frame well. I picked up a Easton carbon Monkeylite bar at a bike sale the other weekend. Again it was dirt cheap so I couldn't refuse.
The groupset is XT with 9 speed cassette at the rear. This is also my first try with Hollowtech II but it looks quality and is nice and light. Again the black and silver suits the build I think.
XT770 and the Fox RP23
(http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j413/proflexk2/308812DD-73DB-49EB-9A47-375719E2A694.jpg) (http://s1084.photobucket.com/user/proflexk2/media/308812DD-73DB-49EB-9A47-375719E2A694.jpg.html)
Chris
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The forks weren't new and there's a slight leak in one of the seals so I've got to get that sorted next along with turning down the top bush set for the RP23. Once that's done I'll fit the crank etc.
Now I've started this properly I want to keep the momentum going till it's built. I don't get much time free and it difficult spending my only free hours in the shed when I could be out riding, but I'll try to keep on top of it.
Chris
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Managed to get a few hours today so I machined the top bushes for the Fox RP23 rear shock. The new service kit has arrived for the forks so I'll change the seals and oil when I get my next hour. It's all coming together nicely.
(http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j413/proflexk2/2CB206BC-10F5-4787-93F6-E6F6A4EB939E.jpg) (http://s1084.photobucket.com/user/proflexk2/media/2CB206BC-10F5-4787-93F6-E6F6A4EB939E.jpg.html)
(http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j413/proflexk2/67891A10-71C0-42DB-9AAE-1FAA1F2AF31F.jpg) (http://s1084.photobucket.com/user/proflexk2/media/67891A10-71C0-42DB-9AAE-1FAA1F2AF31F.jpg.html)
Chris
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Sweet! Wish my Oz was still rolling.
Thunderchild
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I love reading this keep up the great work wish I had an OZ a dream bike for me
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Thank you very much. I'm away camping for a few days but Sunday/Monday I should get the forks serviced. More photos soon.
Chris
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So Monday I got a few hours in and serviced the Talas fork. New low friction seals and oil change. The sliders and bushes are in excellent condition and they don't leak oil now.
(http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j413/proflexk2/2FD77B9A-A400-434E-A9D3-51EBE2018614.jpg) (http://s1084.photobucket.com/user/proflexk2/media/2FD77B9A-A400-434E-A9D3-51EBE2018614.jpg.html)
This is how it looks with the fork and wheels fitted. Tyres are Maxis High Rollers exception series. Fork is set at 90mm here. I've not cut the steerer yet as I've not decided how many spacers to use yet.
(http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j413/proflexk2/B9500563-FE94-401C-A076-33B9198AE80B.jpg) (http://s1084.photobucket.com/user/proflexk2/media/B9500563-FE94-401C-A076-33B9198AE80B.jpg.html)
I fitted the Monkey lite bars just to get a feel for how it will look. Gratuitous carbon and Hope photo..
(http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j413/proflexk2/31548030-EC0E-46F9-9C6B-9BD5D4B3D8A5.jpg) (http://s1084.photobucket.com/user/proflexk2/media/31548030-EC0E-46F9-9C6B-9BD5D4B3D8A5.jpg.html)
(http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j413/proflexk2/57E8F5EB-EB60-4B9E-9613-732063277254.jpg) (http://s1084.photobucket.com/user/proflexk2/media/57E8F5EB-EB60-4B9E-9613-732063277254.jpg.html)
This is with the fork set at 130mm. I'm liking the chunky look of this OZ.
(http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j413/proflexk2/44219285-65AC-4919-BB00-3851815BDBBB.jpg) (http://s1084.photobucket.com/user/proflexk2/media/44219285-65AC-4919-BB00-3851815BDBBB.jpg.html)
The brake hose is cable tied for now but I have to get some proper hose clips. Front brake next and then the Hollow tech crank. Won't be long now.
Chris
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The brake hose is cable tied for now but I have to get some proper hose clips. Front brake next and then the Hollow tech crank. Won't be long now.
Looking good Chris!
Love the wheels!
I Dremeled the brake cable guides out on the OzX so that I could have through routing on the cable casing.
Col.
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Cheers Col. I thought of the Dremmel but decided against it incase I ever want to back to V brakes. I've ordered some Shimano Deore cable guides so it keeps my options open.
Chris
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Got a hours in today. Fitted the Hope X2 front disc brake, XT Hollow tech crank, XT front and rear mech, XT SPD pedals, carbon seat post with Charge Spoon saddle. Also pumped the rear shock up to pressure and set the sag.
I've got the XT shifters to fit next and I need to buy a chain and some grips. The brake hoses need shortening and then that should be it finished.
A quick freewheel down the garden path and it feels good. The suspension needs setting up but feels very nice. The brakes feel super sharp!
Chris
(http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j413/proflexk2/C9BA197A-8688-49AA-AD37-B500D837215C.jpg) (http://s1084.photobucket.com/user/proflexk2/media/C9BA197A-8688-49AA-AD37-B500D837215C.jpg.html)
(http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j413/proflexk2/231C0452-8FF2-4F39-BC82-DC7060AF780A.jpg) (http://s1084.photobucket.com/user/proflexk2/media/231C0452-8FF2-4F39-BC82-DC7060AF780A.jpg.html)
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I finished my OZx on Friday. I still need to shorten the front brake hose but it's all done apart from that. I took it out on a shake down ride Friday afternoon and it rocks! It's very fast and steers very quickly set at 90mm. I don't have a means of weighing it but it's noticeably lighter than my 4000 and 857.
For the last bit of the forestry I set the fork at 130mm just to see the difference. It all got quite bouncey but flew over some real bone shakers with ease.
Fair to say I'm very happy!
Full spec to follow.
Chris
(http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j413/proflexk2/5343CA03-5CCC-48A3-9986-2322BA1B9FBA.jpg) (http://s1084.photobucket.com/user/proflexk2/media/5343CA03-5CCC-48A3-9986-2322BA1B9FBA.jpg.html)
(http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j413/proflexk2/6DA01067-5E05-4821-816C-BA49CF4A5F78.jpg) (http://s1084.photobucket.com/user/proflexk2/media/6DA01067-5E05-4821-816C-BA49CF4A5F78.jpg.html)
(http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j413/proflexk2/27C2DB4D-0A9C-46EB-9E0A-40349619F2D8.jpg) (http://s1084.photobucket.com/user/proflexk2/media/27C2DB4D-0A9C-46EB-9E0A-40349619F2D8.jpg.html)
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Here goes with the spec:
Frame: OZx with Hammerhead adapter
Fork : Fox Talas RLC 90mm - 130mm
Shock : Fox RP23 Pro pedal
Head set : Crane Creak S3
Crank : XT770 Hollow Tech 2
Shifters : XT770 Dual action
Front mech : XT76?
Rear mech : XT761
Cassette : XT770
Chain : Shimano XT HG93
Bar : Easton Monkeylite carbon
Grips : HOPE SL
Stem : Tioga carbon
Seat post : Tioga carbon
Seat : Charge Spoon
Brakes : HOPE Tech X2
Wheels : Easton EA70XC
Pedals : Shimano XT785 SPD
Tires : Maxxis High Rollers Exception series.
Weight : 27.4lb
It's not super light but I didn't build it to be. It's my lightest bike yet and feels it to ride. The only scales I have are cooking scales and it's not that light! But I will get it weighed out of curiosity. Hope you all like it.
Chris
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That is a beautiful ride. It looks great even muddied up!
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Thank you :)
Chris
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Nice job Chris....you and Colin built up a nice pair of Oz frames :)
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Thanks again :) It's funny, the difference between the large and medium frames is not much but it's enough that I never felt right on the medium. This large is a perfect fit.
It was good to finally meet up with Col and great that we could swop frames (and stories) to enable us both to get what we wanted. Happy outcome for all.
Chris
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I weighed the OZ, 4000 and 857 today with a digital luggage scales. First lifting each bike by hand I put them in order of lightness. By hand i guessed 857 heaviest, then 4000 and lightest OZx. I was surprised to find out that the scales said heaviest was the 4000, then OZx and lightest was the 857. I checked several times so the scales must have been right.
But thinking it through, the OZx had a lot of stuff of it ie disc brakes with adapters, tele forks and it hasn't been built for lightness more best quality at a budget. I'm more than happy with it at 27.4lb
The 4000 has lighter wheels but a very heavy set of winter 2.1 Velocerapter tyres which are massively heavier than the Highrollers on the OZx. But I've always considered this to be a light bike. 28.8lb
The 857 is standard except for a Risse Astro 5, carbon seat post, charge spoon saddle and carbon riser bars. It even still has it's original tyres - 1.9 Velocerapters. 27.3lb
So they weighed:
857 - 27.3lb
OZx - 27.4 lb
4000 - 28.8lb
To ride them I would still put them in order of lightness OZX,4000,857 but may be it's down to wheel/tyre weight and age of parts?
They're all cool bikes to ride though!
Chris
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Yes, the tyres can make a bit of difference, here's a comparism of some of the tyres I've used over the years:
Make Name (Front) Width Weight(F) Name (Rear) Weight ( R )
Panaracer Fire XC Pro Kevlar 1.8 720g Fire XC Pro Kevlar 720g
Panaracer Mach SK 1.95 (actual 1.80) 714g Mach SK Comp Kevlar 1.95 (actual 1.80) 570g
Panaracer Mach SS 528g Mach SS 528g
Panaracer Fire Mud Pro XC 1.8 440g Fire Mud Pro XC 440g
Specialized -------------------- 1.95 -- Ground Control (Kevlar) 576g
Specialized Fast Trax 2.0 596g Fast Trax 596g
TIOGA Psycho Edge 1.95 (actual 2.2) 795g Psycho TT 775g
WTB Primal Raptor 621g
WTB Velociraptor Race 700g Velociraptor 675g
WTB Velociraptor Comp 2.1 795g Velociraptor 770g
The missus' OzX came in at 12.7Kg/28lb with the spclzd Fast Trax on , so quite light tyres.
My Brand New. as original OzM with Fire XC's weighs just 11.5Kg/25.3lb which is actually lighter than the 26.25lb quoted by K2 in 1999!
My pretty original 4000se weighs 13.0Kg/28.6lb with Fire XC's on it
and my XP-X weighs just 12.2Kg/26.8lb in road set up with skinny Continental Ultra Gatorskin 1.125 at just 350g. but that is weighed with a rear carrier and Dumbo "comfort" handlebars!
Col.
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Wow, those weights are really close! I don't think you'd even feel the difference if all ran the same tires and drivetrain... by the time you add your weight to the mix, a pound just isn't that big of a deal. It's all about how smoothly the tires run, friction in the drivetrain... and I bet whether the chain *sounds* smooth probably impacts your perception of how heavy it is!
Nice build though! ;D
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I agree and before I weighed them all I would have sworn the OZx was the lightest but it's not. It does however have a brand new XT groupset and the lowest rolling resistance tires. New tires for all me thinks!
Chris
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Back in the early 80's when I was a roadie, the biggest difference in a bike that I could make was in lightweight wheels and tires. A set of Fiamme Red Labels and Clement sew-ups would absolutely feel like a living thing under me.
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That makes sense to me. The wheels and tires carry angular momentum and it takes energy to get them up and spinning. The further the mass is from the center, the more you'll know about it. So shaving a fixed mass from the hub would have much less perceived advantage than removing the same amount from the rim itself. You'd feel quick off the start and think you could drag race anyone... ;D
The location of the weight reduction should also have a similar effect in the gyroscopic sense. That is, you might feel that you can change direction more easily, but given the low speeds at which sharper turns would be made (less gyroscopic effect), I'm not sure how noticeable that would be... if at all. Probably more of a factor in mountain bikes doing quick deeks and dodges around obstacles where it isn't a turn so much as a quick lean one way or the other.
Thinking further, our bikes with full suspension would see two benefits from reducing weight from the wheel assemblies... the same rotational values as you saw on the road bikes, but also a more responsive suspension. The unsprung mass will impact how efficiently the suspension can keep the tire on the ground. That is important, IF your riding style has your tires on the ground most of the time... 8)
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Another proof is when you see the cars with the 22 inch alloy wheels running around with original brakes. The owners, if they have any sense, feel like they have much worse braking and acceleration. The heavier wheels with more mass farther from center make a huge difference. A completed change will include power adders and bigger brakes on the automotive side.
When I was commuting, early on I had panniers but eventually switched to a back pack because I did not like the handling of the bike with all the weight there. It makes a big difference where the weight is placed and how the bike handles. You can hop the bike wearing a back pack a lot better than with panniers and the same load. Yet another reason I like a fixed gear bike with no accessories. It fairly leaps with every input.