K2 / Proflex Riders Group
General => Tech Forum => Topic started by: bayarearider on August 17, 2003, 10:46:47 am
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Well i was checking my bike for chain stretch today and found out that the chain need's to be replaced. I then check the chain ring and cassette.....middle chainring needs to be replaced and the small and big ring is gettin their also. Well it's about 60 bucks for three new LX chain rings.
So i am contemplating whether or not to just upgrade my (98 LX Deore) crankset. BTW Any of you selling cranksets or BB's?
My question is i saw what seems to be a pretty good deal on price point for a Raceface prodigy XC crankset + BB, but the deal is only available in 9 speed. I currently have a 8 speed setup, can i still run this BB and crankset?
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a 2002 Deore XT/bb combo is good replacement/upgrade. if it's cheaper than what U are looking 4
[smiley=beer.gif]
you can run a 9 speed crank with an 8 speed rear. dunno if you need a diff front der. though
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I checked out the prices for the XT and it is around 100 for the crankset and probably about 20-30 for the UN73 BB.
The raceface prodigy crankset is 109 + shipping which includes a raceface BB.
so not too much difference.
any of you have experience with either crankset?
and will i need a new derailer?
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Running a 9 speed crankset on an 8 speed should be no problem. I run LX Mega nine cranks with 8 speeds on 2 of my bikes. Your front derraileur will work fine.
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For the price of getting new rings, you can get one of these and you don't have to get a new BB.
http://www.chucksbikes.com/cr0111.htm
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jimbo,
you ever order from them?
what model crankset is that?
one more question regarding fitment.
Since my BB is square tapered, can i use any square tapered crankset from any maufacurer?
will their be fitment issues?
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jimbo,
you ever order from them?
what model crankset is that?
one more question regarding fitment.
Since my BB is square tapered, can i use any square tapered crankset from any maufacurer?
will their be fitment issues?
Yes, I've ordered them from Chuck. It will fit any square taper BB. It's an older Truvativ model that they don't make any more. The 2 big rings are aluminun and the small is steel. It's a bargain if you want to stay with the square BB. It's probably equivalent to an older LX.
The other thing you could probably do is to take the rings off and put them on your LX. Aren't the older LX 5 arm models?
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my LBS adviced me to not take the XTcranks and BB, 'cause the XT cranks are the same as the LX and octalink sucks (sometimes the crank comes off the BB: not something you want to experience...)(and you must know that he's not one of those shimanohaters).
I then took the the Raceface Prodigy XC ISIS and must say that I'm very content about that. It's too short to tell something about the strength of the rings.
Jeroen.
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If you do go with a 9 speed crank, as per Shimano's recommendation, you should run a 9 speed chain. It will work fine with your 8 speed cassette. Scram chains are especially good for this application because their width is between Shimano's 8 and 9 speed chains.
Here's what Shimano says,
" The 9-speed chain is ~0.5 mm narrower and so is the front derailleur cage.
Using a 9-speed chain with 8-speed front derailleur and crankset will result in sluggish shifting and the adjustment is more critical. You may have to continue to hold the shift lever in an "overshift" until the shift is complete. In the worst case, some 8-speed chain rings have shown a tendency for "chain jamming" during downshifts with a 9 speed chain.
The 8-speed chain is too wide for 9 speed front derailleur; the chain will rub during cross shifting (large/mid ring/large cog).
9-speed chain should be no problem for an 8-speed rear drivetrain.
The 9-speed chainring release teeth and pick-up teeth are reprofiled for narrower chains, therefore you can not use an 8-speed chain, and the pick-up teeth will make noise against the chain during minor cross chaining."
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Hey guys,
anyone know the difference between the 1999 XT crankset line and the 2003?
i have someone in my area who is selling the 1999 crankset for 55 dollars, but i can't find any info on it.
mine is the 4 arm configuration.
let me know what you guys think
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http://www.cambriabike.com/SALE/crankset/index.htm
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money,buy the Shimano. Buy the LX crank and BB. Yes, the Octalink. Octalink is much better and longer lasting than ISIS. You need to grease and torque it properly. Nothing shifts better than Shimano rings. Be sure to get the right BB if you go LX, the 2003 XT and LX are not compatible with each other. The difference in LX and XT is the LX weighes a bit more, because the granny gear is steel and the different BB. LX and XT are very very close performance wise. Raceface Prodigy cranks are heavier and you must use ISIS. Read the reviews on ISIS. Rich
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I'm gonna have to go with Jedoaks on this one. Shimano's Octalink is better than ISIS. Period. There's nothing wrong with, for example, the RaceFace Prodigy, but the quality isn't as high as the Shimano XT.
my LBS adviced me to not take the XTcranks and BB, 'cause the XT cranks are the same as the LX and octalink sucks (sometimes the crank comes off the BB: not something you want to experience...)(and you must know that he's not one of those shimanohaters).
I then took the the Raceface Prodigy XC ISIS and must say that I'm very content about that. It's too short to tell something about the strength of the rings.
Jeroen, your LBS is a little confused. He's right in saying that the XT are not significantly different from the LX (at least not until this year's models came out - now they use different bottom brackets for LX which aren't as good). However, Octalink not only doesn't suck, it's the strongest, most reliable system out there. Check MTBR for a lot of negative reviews of the ISIS design. Poor quality control between brands (i.e. you may not have the best of luck mixing and matching BB's and cranks) and an inherently weak design (something to do with the amount of room not allowing big enough bearings). Personally, everyone I know who has used the ISIS system has replaced the bottom bracket within a year. Shimano BB's tend to last several years, as do the cranks.
Matt
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I am a confessed "Shimano lover." Not out of brand loyalty, but because they almost always have the best designs, and I like whatever is best. Others may compare favorably, but I don't think any are better, especially not in the same price range. I have a good mix of LX/XT/XTR, and I love it. Now, if only I could afford a set of those new XTR disc wheels...
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i am now considering gettin the LX's
Matno,
you mentioned that this years LX's (572?) are not as good as last year because of the spindle. Do yo mean the ES-51?
I am thinking about getting ES-71 with the LX-572's, I remember seeing someone post on MTBR that i should get a longer spindle length because this year's LX's ride closer to the BB?
not sure what he mean but do you guys know?
My current (1998 LX) setup is 113x73
Is this the BB size i should get?
let me know ASAP beacuse i am going to order tonight(performance coupon expires tommorow)
thanks alot everyone
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Dare I toss my two cents in as well? Sure...
I'm first gonna start by qualifying that this response is based on my personal experience and what's worked for me. I run Tru-Vativ Firex cranks on both bikes. (Yes, they're ISIS). I haven't had any problems with them in terms of stifness, creaking, or shifting since I've had my first one (approx 1 1/2 years). However, it's primary use is intended to be XC oriented. (I guess I'll soon find out if putting them in the new bike was wise or not). Also have never had a compatibility problem between brands. My HT has a RaceFace BB, the EVO has a Tru-Vativ BB. Again, my personal experience. Anyhow, Pricepoint has them for $54.98, BB's start at $25.
I wouldn't say that I'm anti-Shimano, but I like to keep my options open. If there's something that works just as well, meets the price range I'm looking for, looks good, and is comparable in every other respect I'll buy it. And I did twice...
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bayarearider
If you are going to use 2003 LX cranks and ES51 BB the spindle length is longer. Rule of thumb 113 is now 118, because the cranks set deeper. You can't mix 2002 with2003. You can mix any other year octalink,LX with XT. Shimano purposely made the 2003 LX heavier, so weight weenies would buy the XT. Before, the difference in weight was nothing, so the smart buyers all bought LX. Now people think, hey , LX weighs so many grams more, they buy the XT. Still a damn good set of cranks. If you follow the MTB forums, there is a lot of good info, and this subject has been beaten into the ground. A lot of high end bikes use Raceface and Truvative, and they have a good reputation, for shifting well. The real reason for not using LX is the CHI CHI factor. I recently bought 2002 XTR Cranks/BB used 140.00. Rings were in great cond. I would never pay 250 or 300 for a pair of cranks. There are a lot of good deals to be had used. Hope that helps Rich
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jedoaks,
is that spindle rule the same for the ES71? because i plan to order in a couple hours and need to make sure i am getting the right spindle length.
so i need to get the 73x118 size correct?
thanks for all the replies
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starting to doubt myself.....one last question......what is the difference between the es71 and the es51?
is it worth the extra 5 bucks?
i just checked the supergo web site...under technical notes section for the ES-71:
"Not compatible with FC-572 LX Cranks. 113mm width results in a 47.5mm chainline. 118mm width results in a 50mm chainline. 118mm is also used for frames with wider chainstay spacing, to allow crankarm clearance. Consult your frame's manufacturer if you are unsure which width will work best for you."
is this right?? i am guessing this means i can't get this BB if i get the LX crankset?
and where can i look up the chainline for my bike?
98 way big proflex 3000
thanks for all the responses!
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Yes, I've ordered them from Chuck. It will fit any square taper BB. It's an older Truvativ model that they don't make any more. The 2 big rings are aluminun and the small is steel. It's a bargain if you want to stay with the square BB. It's probably equivalent to an older LX.
The other thing you could probably do is to take the rings off and put them on your LX. Aren't the older LX 5 arm models?
That's the crankset I have on my '99 4000. I ordered them through chuck and didn't have any problems. The model is a Truvative 4D which is a discontinued model. They work great and aren't boat anchors.
Tom A.
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@Matno:
Personally, everyone I know who has used the ISIS system has replaced the bottom bracket within a year. Shimano BB's tend to last several years, as do the cranks.
Another thing my LBS told me, was the weakness of the RaceFace-BB! So I suppose you're right about that. He installed another BB in my bike, but I don't know what brand. His experience with RF-BB was the same as the experience of youre friends.
BTW: You think his story about octalink cranks comming off the octalink BB can't be real? Might it be an old problem with octalink? I always thought I had a good LBS.
Greetings, Jeroen.
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bayarearider
So what did you end up doing?
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Hey,
i didn't order yet....my damn performance coupon expired. I am looking for a new one. I decided to go with XT with the es-71. It's about 30 bucks more than the lx setup. I am also getting a new cassette and chain. Basically drivetrain overhaul, considering parts are all original (98 proflex).
i'll let you guys know when i get everything ordered and in.
thanks again for answering all my questions
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because most are leery of the new LX. I'm not trying to be rude, but that is what Shimano had in mind. Upgrade to XT, because of the strange BB length and incompatibilty with XT. Where do you find the coupons? Rich
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i got mine from bike magazine. i know there are some floating around.
i'll let you know if i get some extras
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Hey guys,
i got all my drivetrain stuff. Now i am ordering some tools needed for the install. Hopefully someone can answer 1 more question for me.
I ended up buying last years 751 XT crankset. I took a look at the crank bolts and i believe i need something called a pin spanner. I checked out parktool.com's website and they have two different versions. SPA-1 and SPA-2
anyone know which one i need?
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Good choice, that is just for the dust cap. Do you have a crank puller? Mine has the little spaner on the end. Snap ring or circlip pliers work good. I have never used the special tool. The first time I used two 16p nails, one in each hole, and turn together. Doesn't do anything, but keep the inside clean. I think it is a poor design. Why not make the bolt big enough, so that it comes out flush with the crank arm, like the old style cranks .I would not worry about it. Rich
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hey jedoaks,
yeah i got the crankpuller and bb tool. I guess i'll skip the span tool. Is it ok for me to use automotive grease? I have loads of this stuff. Or do i need bike specific grease?