K2 / Proflex Riders Group
General => Tech Forum => Topic started by: 5500C on January 30, 2003, 03:26:30 am
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Hey guys, its Brad the guy with all of the crazy questions about the Fox Vanilla RC. Thanks for all of your help.
I've been searching the archives and can't find any links to how to order or more info on the Hammerhead disc adapter. Thanks for the help.
Brad
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You can follow the "Links" to "855 heads" then click on "Products".
Or you can just go directly to this link:
http://www.proflex.demon.co.uk/products/index.html
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I think I'm going to put that into the FAQ. :)
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I've just fitted a Hammerhead to my 5500c with Hope Mini's, and it's fine. One downside - it's made out of solid stainless steel, and come in at a hefty 64g. I'm searching for a 4mm x 100mm x 50mm bit of Ti to copy it and make some weight saving.
Overall - recommended. :)
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I've just fitted a Hammerhead to my 5500c with Hope Mini's, and it's fine. One downside - it's made out of solid stainless steel, and come in at a hefty 64g. I'm searching for a 4mm x 100mm x 50mm bit of Ti to copy it and make some weight saving.
Overall - recommended. :)
Using Ti will save you 30g according to my computer models and simulations... I have some Ti plates here, but am getting them cut up as HammerHead key rings/beer bottle openers... Be careful of the alpha case when you cut the Ti plate... could cause stress fractures. Also.. no citrus cleaners, no contact with lead pencils, marker pens or gold rings etc.
If you send me the plate I can get it cut for you using the programs... I'll do it as an act of goodwill... cos I really am a nice guy!!
Ciao..
Hammer.
http://www.racing-green.com
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I've just fitted a Hammerhead to my 5500c with Hope Mini's, and it's fine. One downside - it's made out of solid stainless steel, and come in at a hefty 64g. I'm searching for a 4mm x 100mm x 50mm bit of Ti to copy it and make some weight saving.
Overall - recommended. :)
oh come on... r u trying to tell me u can feel teh 64g out on the trail?
man thats some serious g-counting your doing....
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I did put it in the FAQ, just now. I'm such a lazy bastard when it comes to changing content on the website. :)
Now if I can only write up how to get replacement elastomers and put THAT in the FAQ, there will actually be all the FREQUENTLY askes questiions in it!
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well dave in the file archives there are part number sand every thing.If you want i can do it....tell me how
I will do a liitle write up on the elastomer bikes and maybe the x57 and 98 models as well.
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Actually, if you're voluteering... :)
Pretty simple, actually, just write up the text that would go into the FAQ, both the question and the answer.
It's way less effort to copy and paste. 8)
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so do you want me to write up teh afq and just post it as a reply here????If i includes link n that will all that be pastable?????
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That will work great! Links are pasteable, but complicated. Not a big deal, though.
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the 64 gramme question!
yes - I think you can feel 64g on the dropout - this is because it is unsprung mass and effects the suspension a little with regard to small bump sensitivity.
BUT!!! the real reason you can feel it is that you also have 350g of HOPE mini there as well.
I didn't know we could do Ti HammerHeads. bonus. Mike will have me out scavenging round the Iraqi desert looking for spare Ti next.
callum
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Using Ti will save you xxxg according to my computer models and simulations...Ciao..
Hammer.
[url]http://www.racing-green.com[/url]
Ho ho ho ho ...... Hey Rich..
Just collected your HammerHead Ti (CAHHTi) today...
Anyone want to guess the weight....???
I'll have it in the post tomorrow.
Ciao..
Hammer.
ps...
Callum... I think all you'll find there is depleted uranium shells... and a few Big Mac wrappers!!
Ti HammerHeads are not an issue really... apart from the costs to buy the material and make them... took a lot longer than the regular material, they charged me the earth. So I won't be making a habit of this...... so unlikely we will be making any more of these, this was a goodwill gesture to Richard.. if anyone else wants one.... we can do it.... but if you need to ask the price, you probably can't afford it.
Exclusive.............
So far... Only two in existance... got two out of rich's plate, sending one to him and the other is going in the test rig.
DS.
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is there anyone else out there interested in a ti hammerhead?
maybe if we could get a few of us together, getting the plate and cutting some could be a viable option?
cause i know i'd 'really' like one myself.
i do have the ss version already...
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Why Ti or stainless Steel, how about 7005 or 7075 Alu, is it going to be too weak? (it works fine on other frames.
Y0u probably could add couple mm to it's thiknes.
I think Titanium would be problematic, you have to use that special antisieze compound(or what ever it called) .
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You should really use that anti-seize compound on bolts near your brakes anyway. I've seen hubs with the rotor bolts literally welded in from the heat. Anti-Seize only costs a few bucks for a tub that will last forever and a day, and it can save you hundreds in hubs and rotors.
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Dave... I strongly disagree about the anti seize or any other grease based thread treatments anywhere near the brakes.
Instead I suggest and reccomend that loctite be used. Both on the rotor to hub interface, and also to hold the calliper to the mount, also if applicable (to aftermarket brake adapter users) also on the bolts that hold the HammerHead onto the swingarm.
The reason being that loctite (just regular threadlocker) will hold the bolts in place, stop the ingression of water and other fluids (oooo-err missus) and also lubricate the threads when it is time to remove them.
So INHO, 5 chillis for loctite... and save the anti seize for your crank arms, and pedals..
For the record.. I use loctite on my BB interface too!
Ciao..
Mike - likes his loctite - Hammer
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Why Ti or stainless Steel, how about 7005 or 7075 Alu, is it going to be too weak? (it works fine on other frames.
Y0u probably could add couple mm to it's thiknes.
Ti and stainless alloys do not transfer heat so agressivly as alluminium, this keeps your dropout firmly bonded in your swingarm. Also Ti and the stainless alloy HammerHead use have flatter fatigue curves, whereas alluminium will always get to the point where it says.. "I've had enough cycles, I am gonna break now..bye bye"
>It works fine on other frames...
So did the o-rings on challenger... until they broke!
Re: Adding a couple of mm to the thickness...
You'll not be saving any weight then...... and I guess the attraction with a titanium brake adapter is is it's unobtanium value and drool factor... plus, theoretically we could make them even thinner... but I have to do the tests and simulations first (currently underway) I made two CAHH-Ti-6-4 HammerHeads Richard has one, and the other is in my test rig being Hammered... and once the trails thaw out, it will be out there doing the real life thing..... then a trip to italy should get the heat transfer, heat soak and temperature testing done... If the computer model analysis looks promising, I will get some test samples made in thinner material..... although I am sceptical.. and would never risk someone getting hurt, because we tried to save half an ounce.
Take it easy,
Hammer
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But...
Loctite is designed to become a lubricant when you add enough heat... and our disc brakes create enough of that.
Depends on the grade you use, though.
Anti sieze works awesome, however. I've never had a bolt come loose while using it, and I started at the recomendation of the local bike shops, who use it on all builds.
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In case you're wondering who Richard or Rich is, it's me - Oz-SUB!
Mike (he of Hammerhead), has cut the 4mm Ti plate I sent him, and managed to get two out of the plate. He is keeping one for testing / himself, and sending me the other one (after de-burring and polishing). So apart from the maker, I'll be the only Oz rider with a Ti Hammerhead.
It's probably in the post as I write this message. As soon as I get it, I'll take some pics of it and mounted.
Watch this space.
Richard Oz-SUB
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sweet - look forward to it Oz-SUB :)
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i can see where titanium would have it's distinct advantages over say, stainless steel (even a super secret composite ss) or an aluminum and considering the risks, i would encourage one to utilize the latest technology available for a project such as this.
i've found, and i have no computer simulators, cad/cam programs etc, just off road practical experience, that the heat dissipates from the area quite quickly and minimal heat is transferred thru the caliper mounting bolts and the bridge of appropriate 8 mil + or so of spacers from the caliper to the internal face of the plate which is attached to the aluminum dropout.
perhaps one could do some practical brake testing, similar to the one's the major auto manufacturers do down Pikes Peak in Colorado. attach some simple sensors to various critical parts of the area and do some measurements. that may be too much of a project for a bike hack like myself. maybe just make some 8 mil spacers with mini radiator fins to cool things down if it's measured to be a problem.
every time i've gone down some very long, steep fire roads in the area and had the presense of mind to step off the bike and place my hand on the plate, it's never been much more that slightly elevated above ambient temperature. much of the heat appears to left the system before reaching the plate let alone the dropout.
now, fatigue and potential failure i can understand - but to date, none of the aluminum units i've made in my garage with simple hand tools have ever cracked or failed. many engineers think that some things cannot be 'overengineered' (no offense to any engineers) but sometimes, looking at the latest designs in bike technology, i have a tendency to think that they can -
long live the monopivot - it just needed a good shock to bring out it's full potential.
(http://home.pacbell.net/nph/discplatesnow.jpg)
OP
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perhaps one could do some practical brake testing, similar to the one's the major auto manufacturers do down Pikes Peak in Colorado. attach some simple sensors to various critical parts of the area and do some measurements[OP
I did temperature tests back in 1998 whilst in Italy... but brakes are getting better and better and maybe you are right... a trip to PP would be cool... and with an elevation of 4000m at the top, 2500m at the bottom (or the start of the hillclimb course) it should also give the brake fluid a really hard time tooo... considering that water boils at 60 celcius up there.
Great idea.... Just need to get callum to book the plane tickets.. maybe we can do it just after the PP hillclimb and go watch that first.
Which links me nicely into another subject..
Dave with all due respect that I have for bike shops and thier mechanics... I think that I'll take the advice of the guy who built the car that holds the Pro class record at Pikes Peak... yes.. the 800bhp SAAB.... that person being me!
IMHO, the potential risk with anti-seize compounds is that they are grease based.. and when heated the centrifugal force could throw the grease onto the disc rotor... I have seen it on race cars, which is why I would not reccomend it's use on disc brake rotor mounting bolts. Probably ok on the callipers though... but I prefer loctite...
Mikey- Until someone higher up the food chain tells me otherwise I'm sticking with loctite- Hammer !
;-)
Saab Picture here:
http://www.geocities.com/racing_green_uk/EKLUND_FRESH_AIR_180k.JPG
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take the advice of the guy who built the car that holds the Pro class record at Pikes Peak... yes.. the 800bhp SAAB.... that person being me!
Congratulations Mike! That's the first I've heard of a really noteworthy achievement here stateside-or anywhere else for that matter-you're a humble guy :)
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Näääh..... just a car mechanic.... ;-)
BTW.... snowboarding is dangerous.. be careful!
http://gallery.consumerreview.com/webcrossing/images/ouch!.jpg
*********** I remember the days when motorsport was dangerous.... and sex was safe.. [smiley=blankstare.gif]
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jeez youre even uglier than i imagined.. :D ;D [smiley=laughing.gif]
hammer you mentioned ti keyrings..are they in the shape of a hammerhead adaptor or what...... got any pics???
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Yepp... they will be the shape of the original HammerHEad, the one that really did look like a shark! And they will have a bottle opener on them in the jaws.... the design is done and they look cool.... just have to make some and start testing.... Ptschhhhhhhh!
Ptschhhhhhhh!
Ptschhhhhhhh!
Ptschhhhhhhh!
Ptschhhhhhhh!
Ptschhhhhhhh!
Ptschhhhhhhh!
Ptschhhhhhhh!
Ptschhhhhhhh!
Ptschhhhhhhh!............
But as always.... there is good news bad news...............
Good news is they are to be free.......................
The bad news is... You have to buy a HHTi upgrade to get one..........!!
Ciao...
Hammer
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oooh..how about x56 hh..you ever finish it????
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Kiwi... Here is the page with the order code for the x56 HammerHead... also fits x55.
These have been available for a year now....!!
http://www.proflex.demon.co.uk/products/X56HH.html
But because you are a moderator... and a nice guy.... if you order a x56HH then there may be a Titaniun HammerHead bottle opener on it's way to you-..... maybe. ;-)
Hammie
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hmmmm thought so just didnt see it on your site..............