K2 / Proflex Riders Group
General => Tech Forum => Topic started by: kevin7909 on September 02, 2012, 10:07:27 pm
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Hi All:
This is my first post. I bought a well used 855 many years ago and rode it a few times on road before the elastomers melted so I never had a chance to use it on the trail. I want to get back into off road riding for excercise and fun. The tires are old and probably dry rotted and the cassette, sprockests and seat are extremely worn. I would probably replace the front and rear shocks/elastomers with Risse components and keep the vector2 front end. I might also want to change the piece between the rear shock and the swingarm. it isn't bent, but the previous owner used a nut and bolt through the assembly so I assume the threading is shot. Although I think the proflex 855 is a cool bike, I want to get the most for my money (but old school/new school doesn't matter. I don't have to have the cool bike on the trail). I do not care about resale value as I don't plan to sell the bike if it will work on the trail. The frame appears to be in good condition and nothing seems to be worn enough that I have felt play or vibrations.
I am guessing that I would have to spend about $600 to $800 to get the bike trail ready. Is this realistic and can I purchase another complete bike for that amount that will be superior to the proflex? If so, does anyone have any suggestions? If I can get this bike trail ready for the amount listed above, does anyone have suggestions on a list of parts to get? I am not experienced with mountain bikes so any help would be appreciated.
More information: The wheels look like they are not bent and the Shimano XT parts seem to work without a problem so I am assuming I can keep them.
Thanks,
Kevin
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the suspension will be the problem.The risse stuff isnt cheap,but it isnt plug and play to get other shocks to work,espif you want to keep the vector.Be aware the proflexes are short quick steering short travel xc race bikes.Plush they aint,but they are a nice ride,and a wee bit diffferent.We all think they ARE cool but we are biased
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I think it all depends how much you like the bike I say that because I have spent loads aprox £600 on my 98 K2 4000 new air shock drive train sealed bearings and modified main pivot new front shock and wheels but then again I really like the bike so only you can decide.
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Thanks for the quick replies. The issue I have is that pretty much every other forum that I have found mentioning the 855 says that the bike is junk, so I wanted to hear opinions from people who still use it. I think that I will probably try to fix it.
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I have several of them including my 855 that I bought new in early 96 on sale. Yep, you'll hear that they are junk from people who either never rode one or are just plain convinced that the fork must be backwards or something. If you could figure a way to have them ride one without their being able to see the fork, they would probably get real confused. If your bushings are all good then you can just replace the worn out stuff with better stuff that is cheaper now and maybe pick up another gear or two out back if you get the matching shifters and chain. The original seat post is the only thing that was junk from the factory besides the sketchy squishies and dampers. You can buy Noleen coil/oil shocks and just bolt them on and they are spendy but it is a shortcut. If you were to watch for deals on the freewheel and such you could still stay at or under your budget point as well. Craigslist and ebay are your friend. Some of the guys here have some pieces they might part with too.
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Thanks for the advice. I don't feel anything vibrating but not really sure how to know if the bushings are worn or not and really wouldn't mind just replacing them with new ones. Any advice on where to get a rebuild kit for the bushings? To be honest I don't mind too much going over budget if it's worth it.
Should I replace the brakes with discs? I ask because for years bikes seemed to stop Pretty well and all of a sudden on the forums you would think that we had to Fred Flinstone our bikes to stop.
Also, does anyone know what will remove the sticky melted elastomer from the metal and plastic parts of the bike ( the bike was hanging upside down when the elastomers melted )?
I am leaning towards Risse for the front and rear suspension. Is this a bad decision?
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The best thing you can do is to strip the forks and pivot down using the diagrams here:
Frame:
http://idriders.com/proflex/smf/index.php?action=media;sa=item;in=281 (http://idriders.com/proflex/smf/index.php?action=media;sa=item;in=281)
http://idriders.com/proflex/smf/index.php?action=media;sa=item;in=282 (http://idriders.com/proflex/smf/index.php?action=media;sa=item;in=282)
http://idriders.com/proflex/smf/index.php?action=media;sa=item;in=283 (http://idriders.com/proflex/smf/index.php?action=media;sa=item;in=283)
Vector II
http://idriders.com/proflex/smf/index.php?action=media;sa=item;in=305 (http://idriders.com/proflex/smf/index.php?action=media;sa=item;in=305)
check the nylon? bearings and seals for wear, it'll be obvious if they are badly worn, the seals wear out first and if not replaced then the bearings may start to suffer.
usually the bearings last for ages unless the bike has been very badly abused and neglected.
Don't remove them, just inspect them for "ovalisation" and any wear on the metal pivot axles.
If apparant then replace as necessary with kits available on eBay in the USA.
RK002 - main pivot
http://idriders.com/proflex/smf/index.php?action=media;sa=item;in=223 (http://idriders.com/proflex/smf/index.php?action=media;sa=item;in=223)
http://idriders.com/proflex/smf/index.php?action=media;sa=item;in=296 (http://idriders.com/proflex/smf/index.php?action=media;sa=item;in=296)
http://idriders.com/proflex/smf/index.php?action=media;sa=media;in=256;preview (http://idriders.com/proflex/smf/index.php?action=media;sa=media;in=256;preview)
RK005 Vector seal kit
http://idriders.com/proflex/smf/index.php?action=media;sa=media;in=259;preview (http://idriders.com/proflex/smf/index.php?action=media;sa=media;in=259;preview)
RK006 Vector & Crosslink bearing kit
http://idriders.com/proflex/smf/index.php?action=media;sa=media;in=260;preview (http://idriders.com/proflex/smf/index.php?action=media;sa=media;in=260;preview)
RK004 Crosslink seal kit ( can be used on Vectors)
http://idriders.com/proflex/smf/index.php?action=media;sa=media;in=258;preview (http://idriders.com/proflex/smf/index.php?action=media;sa=media;in=258;preview)
Good luck
Col.
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The best thing you can do is to strip the forks and pivot down using the diagrams here:
Frame:
[url]http://idriders.com/proflex/smf/index.php?action=media;sa=item;in=281[/url] ([url]http://idriders.com/proflex/smf/index.php?action=media;sa=item;in=281[/url])
[url]http://idriders.com/proflex/smf/index.php?action=media;sa=item;in=282[/url] ([url]http://idriders.com/proflex/smf/index.php?action=media;sa=item;in=282[/url])
[url]http://idriders.com/proflex/smf/index.php?action=media;sa=item;in=283[/url] ([url]http://idriders.com/proflex/smf/index.php?action=media;sa=item;in=283[/url])
Vector II
[url]http://idriders.com/proflex/smf/index.php?action=media;sa=item;in=305[/url] ([url]http://idriders.com/proflex/smf/index.php?action=media;sa=item;in=305[/url])
check the nylon? bearings and seals for wear, it'll be obvious if they are badly worn,
usually the bearings last for ages unless the bike has been very badly abused and neglected.
Replace as necessary with kits available on eBay.
RK002 - main pivot
[url]http://idriders.com/proflex/smf/index.php?action=media;sa=item;in=223[/url] ([url]http://idriders.com/proflex/smf/index.php?action=media;sa=item;in=223[/url])
[url]http://idriders.com/proflex/smf/index.php?action=media;sa=item;in=296[/url] ([url]http://idriders.com/proflex/smf/index.php?action=media;sa=item;in=296[/url])
[url]http://idriders.com/proflex/smf/index.php?action=media;sa=media;in=256;preview[/url] ([url]http://idriders.com/proflex/smf/index.php?action=media;sa=media;in=256;preview[/url])
RK005 Vector seal kit
[url]http://idriders.com/proflex/smf/index.php?action=media;sa=media;in=259;preview[/url] ([url]http://idriders.com/proflex/smf/index.php?action=media;sa=media;in=259;preview[/url])
RK006 Vector & Crosslink bearing kit
[url]http://idriders.com/proflex/smf/index.php?action=media;sa=media;in=260;preview[/url] ([url]http://idriders.com/proflex/smf/index.php?action=media;sa=media;in=260;preview[/url])
RK004 Crosslink seal kit ( can be used on Vectors)
[url]http://idriders.com/proflex/smf/index.php?action=media;sa=media;in=258;preview[/url] ([url]http://idriders.com/proflex/smf/index.php?action=media;sa=media;in=258;preview[/url])
Good luck
Col.
you a legend Col,always the one to come up with the nitty gritty ;D
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Colin. Thanks! I can't wait to get started on my bike.
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Thanks, you're benefiting from my years of maintaining my XP-X (856) <GRIN>
If you have the time and patience, stripping these bikes down, cleaning and rebuilding them is a lovely therapeutic experience, thereby gaining your own appreciation of "quality"; they are beautifully engineered and the supporting documentation is superb.
By doing this you will better understand how the bikes work and also, when riding them, by paying continual attention, if something is not working properly, identifying it long before it becomes a major problem.
It depends upon your temperament whether you will enjoy the experience or not, or whether you don't wish to understand the mechanics and just want to experience the moment of riding, which is also a valid position. But the days are long gone when you could take one of these bikes into your local PRO~FLEX dealership and get a highly trained technician to fix it for you! I gave up using LBS's when they got a scared look in their eyes when I walked in with a PRO~FLEX..............
As you'll see from my comments on here, I'm just as keen to exort people to "get out there and ride it", so IMHO finding a good middle ground is the perfect situation!
Good luck and I'm sure everyone will assist with any questions that you have.
Col.
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I could not agree more with the above post. Working on my bike kick started me into doing all my own work so much so I am now going to try and build my own wheels
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what about seeking out another 855 or compatible bike? then transefring parts fromthe donor bike to the "rider" bike, or vice versa, end result should be a complete & working 855 and a whole load of spares to sell on or keep for future use. :D
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hmmm, could be a good idea, but I have bought bikes "blind" as donor bikes for projects and just ended up with a pile of junk.
My preferred option is to produce a list of the components that need replacing and then sourcing them on eBay or Chain Reaction etc as and when the prices are right!
Buying it all in "drips" is less painful on the wallet and less apparent to the financial coordinator (wife) <GRIN>
Her own very practical approach to "needing" new parts on her bike is to ride it until either something wears out or breaks and then present it to me, and then I decide whether to upgrade or just replace a component.
It's currently booked in with me for a service, which is awaiting a rainy day as we are fortunately experiencing a lovely "Indian" summer period in the UK.
Your posts inspired me to take the XP-X out for a ride yesterday, it's built up as a road bike with 700c Cyclocross disc wheels, 1.125" tyres and is a flying machine!
(http://idriders.com/proflex/smf/MGalleryItem.php?id=494)
Col.
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([url]http://idriders.com/proflex/smf/MGalleryItem.php?id=494[/url])
Col.
sorry mate that blue strut and swingarm just doesnt do it for me....swap out for silver immediately!
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I like the color scheme. Red, black and blue, sort of like bruised and bleeding. Much like my favorite trail rides produced.
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Is that a Fournales fork? and the disc mount is standard? I love my Crosslinks but the lack of a disc mount has relegated them to the attic in favour of something slightly more modern. But I might look into the Forunales fork if I can find one...
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Blue and Red was the standard XP-X colour scheme, so it originally had a Blue Vector II fork on it, from 1997...............
(http://idriders.com/proflex/smf/MGalleryItem.php?id=486)
(Yes I know the spinergy's will collapse and kill me out of pure spite, but don't pester me on this..................<GRIN>)
Until 2010, when I swapped the fork out to get front disc compatibility, which the Look Fournalles provides and yes, it is the standard OEM fork disk mount, it slides on over the end of the fork and has machined dropout locating grooves that position it accurately and clamp bolts to solidly lock it to the round carbon fork leg. The fork is another piece of engineering beauty.
(http://idriders.com/proflex/smf/MGalleryItem.php?id=492)
P.s. Actually..................I have a silver swing arm and strut that I practiced doing the x56HH conversion on......................and I considered using it, but that would have left the central frame as the only original piece of the XP-X!
Another idea I have is to build the same components onto an 857 frame that I have and so then the carbon swing arm will mirror the carbon Look fork, would that make you happier Kiwi? If so, I'll get straight on the case.....................<GRIN>
sorry for hijacking your thread Kevin!
Col.
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Update with links to buy seal and bearing kits for Crosslinks/Vectors in the USA
K2 NOLEEN Pro-Flex RK005 Vector 2 / Girvin AL Seal Kit
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=390468836354&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:GB:1123 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=390468836354&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:GB:1123)
K2 NOLEEN Pro-Flex RK006 Bearing Kit Girvan AL/X-Link
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=310439184879&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:GB:1123 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=310439184879&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:GB:1123)
and 855 etc frame pivot rebuild kit (657 was the last incarnation of the x55/x56 frame)
K2 NOLEEN Pro-Flex 657 Bearing Seal RK002 Rebuild Kit
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330793896165&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:GB:1123 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330793896165&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:GB:1123)
Col.
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Hi everyone and sorry for the late reply but I am new to the site.
However, Kevin definitely rebuild your 855. You will gain so much insight and creativity that you never knew you had. I did a complete rebuild on a 857 and that started me on my way. After that I did three more rebuilds and each one is totally different from the other. I will post pics when I get a chance. I modded all of them and with the upgrades they all feel incredible. When you are finished you will not only feel that you have accomplished something but you will have a great ride.
BTW Colin, the bike looks great and that idea of the carbon swingarm to go with the look of the fork is a great idea. But don't listen to me, I would wear carbon fiber underwear if I could find it!!! LOL!
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Carbon fibre under crackers ..... Hmm a man with an eye for fashion.
You certainly wouldn't have any accidents in those!
Chris
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Here is what i did for mine
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8205/8183779473_99c449b0ce.jpg)
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8483/8183817532_958f0cb9d1.jpg)
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8200/8183812690_914e1e7e5b.jpg)
NASHBAR had the wheelset on sale for 60% off plus free ship.
The vee brakes bolt in place and that gets tha hanger out of the way for the 165mm airshock (ebay)
Total spent so far (I'm always looking for bargins)
Bike with beat group $7 (bike shop was cleaning the "junk" out of the back and that is how much cash I had on me at the time)
New wheelset, middle chainring, cassette, airshock ~$350
About 4 hours work on the front end plus sourcing and figureing out how to make it fit.
The rear is a 1/2 by 20 threaded 1/2" id SS tube with bushings set up as a vibration dampener in the rear
I looked into a rear shock but no one makes them that short in the pressure that you would need to fit the gap.
Have fun
Dirk
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the suspension will be the problem.The risse stuff isnt cheap,but it isnt plug and play to get other shocks to work,espif you want to keep the vector.Be aware the proflexes are short quick steering short travel xc race bikes.Plush they aint,but they are a nice ride,and a wee bit diffferent.We all think they ARE cool but we are biased
They definitely are quick-steering, to the point of being scary in my opinion, but a fork with 100-120mm of travel cleans up that problem very nicely. You'll never get that with a Vector of course, but if you're willing to get rid of that there are lots of options. I de-Vector-ized my 756 back in 2003 and I never regretted it.
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Colin how does the LOOK fork compare to the Crosslink?
The Look seems to have longer links so i guess more travel? How does the ride compare, are the characteristics the same just more travel? Is there much of a weight difference between the two carbon versions?
Cheers
Chris
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I replaced a Vector II with the Look Fournales on my XP-X (856) in 2010.
The main reason for this was to allow 700c (29er?) disc wheels to be fitted to make it longer legged as a road touring bike, (yes, I know that's probably heresy, but it made a cracking long distance ride and allowed me to justify keeping it!)
Yes, more travel - 80mm claimed on the Look against 45mm for the Vector and 75mm for the Crosslink.
Weight wise, I'd say the Look is lighter than a Vector but a bit more than a CS Crosslink.
Vector weighs in at 3.6lb/1632g with a coil spring and an ODS.
The Look weighs 3.0lb/1367g ready for disk brake.
A Carbon Crosslink weighs 2.77lb/1255g with an NR-5 fitted.
also, for me, allowing conversion to disk brakes saved weight over the Magura HS11's that I had on the bike (V brakes may be similar weight to disks).
The Look fork rides like the Vector (and the Crosslinks that I have on other bikes) exhibiting great lateral stiffness and precise steering, with very little pedal bob and just a bit of brake dive that stiffens up as the weight comes onto it.
The air shock is much more sensitive than the ODS with coil, with little or no stiction and so makes a great rough road ride and I'm sure would be great for XC riding. On the downside, it's probably even more bespoke in it's manufacture than the ODS fitment and is probably irreplaceable.
For me, the Fournales delivered my essential needs of a rebuild of the XP-X, but is quite a unique bit of kit and won't suit everyone, or else they would have sold many more of them! Fortunately I paid nowhere near the original Retail price for them despite them being BNIB.
Col.
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The Look fork surely is a pretty fork and even better for the disc option. But like all linkage forks they are a Marmite fork( Vegimite for those on the other side of the world ;)). You either love them or hate them. Love Marmite me!
And Nothing wrong with tailoring your bikes for the use they get. Like your XPX my 857 wears semi slicks and is mostly used as a road training bike with a few dry trails on the way back. With its firmer suspension, high seat height, lightweight crosslinks and smooth tires it flies. I've even been thinking of putting higher gearing on it.
My 4000 is used once mid week and every weekend off road and the crosslink cs are brilliant. I do still look at OP's disc convention with envy though!
When I get my arse in gear and build this 4500 Ill see if I praise Fox Tallas forks as much.
Chris
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Looking at these pictures again, I'm amazed how tall some of you guys are. Your seats are so high I wouldn't be able to touch the pedals even with just one foot at a time.
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Fyrstormer you must have left out the laughing emoticon. When the mtbs of the early to mid 90's were made, the riding position was still very nearly the same as on a road bike. Crazy steep downhills were done with the saddle in the middle of your chest and butt almost on the rear tire. The ULM on the 855 left no alternative and the stems were long to stretch the rider out. My saddle is still pretty high but there is a riser stem and riser bars to better suit my ability to bend, though not doubled over.
Many of the bikes presently being manufactured are in my opinion overgrown BMX bikes with the very low saddle position. It is telling that a lot of the riding I see with those consists of standing on the pedals or pushing them up hills with very little saddle time compared to the more cross country style of bikes.
I realize that my 855's and sixes are old bikes and aren't meant to be serious downhillers or take the serious drops that some of the new ones are built for, but they have been there.
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Just a mere 5'8" or 174cm and not unusually long legs (30" inseam)........
.........but bear in mind my XP-X is set up as road racer/tourer!
Yes, W2Zero, I remember the days! LOL! What a great downhilling technique that was, I think I've still got the bruised ribs from it!
A couple of years ago I did the Black run at Dalby Forest (UK) on my 4000se with the Carbon Crosslinks on it and it performed beautifully, never bottoming out and flowing the jumps like I couldn't believe, I honestly thought that the bike would not cope with it, but it exceeded my own skills and nerve level. The best bit was a youngster on a modern bike who watched me from the bottom and waited to ask me what forks I was running as they seemed to cope so well that he wanted a pair, he was a bit taken aback when I said "they stopped making these a decade ago".
Then again, maybe it was my superlative riding skills that carried the day...............? NOT! <GRIN>
Col.
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I do tend to have my seat quite high due to being 6'2" tall and having a 35" inseam. Compared to the Orange 5 my friend rides the our riding positions are noticeably different. Funny thing is my 4000 gets all the admiring comments and his bike doesn't get a second look!
I regularly ride Cwmcarn and "The Wall" at Afon Argoed in S Wales and my crosslink cs easily handle everything I can throw at them. It's only when I try and race him down the rocky descents that I loose out. But he has 140mm front sus so it's to be expected. Everywhere else he wishes he had a lighter bike!!
I think it testament to the desighn and quality of Proflex that they can be fitted with either linkage forks or Tele and ride superbly.
Chris