K2 / Proflex Riders Group
General => Tech Forum => Topic started by: Spokes on July 24, 2012, 04:23:41 pm
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So Ive been riding xc recently with a friend who has an new Orange 5 and Im struggling on the rocky down hill sections. I feel my crosslinks are loosing out to his 140mm(ish?) tele forks.
As I have a few bikes all with crosslinks,which i love, Im going to build a 'modern' proflex to see the difference it makes having more travel.
For all you people who have tele forks on your rides what do you think the maximum travel fork could be fitted before the geometry is upset. Im thinking 100mm or may be 120mm at a push would be max before the steering slows down too much, but what do you guys use.
I have a Fox Float R for the rear which ive just machined the bushes to suit my 4000 and will get a Fox fork to match. The reason i'll be using Fox is because MOJO Suspension are 10 minutes from my house and they are a really good and helpfull place. So with Fox shocks/forks any rebuilds, servicing and parts are on my door step so to speak.
So what length do you think?
Chris
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My bike has a Manitou Black Super with an adjustable 90-120mm travel range. The steering was so much more pleasant once I upgraded to the longer fork that lifted the headtube and slackened the headtube angle. Trying to go downhill with the original Vector fork was just short of terrifying, because it had insufficient travel for anything besides smooth singletrack and the steering was way too sensitive to bump-steer.
With the Manitou Black, I normally run it at 90mm, but it's nice to have the 120mm option on the rare occasion I need it.
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I've been thinking about changing my Crosslinks for something more modern, plusher, and with more travel too.
I'm thinking 120mm travel forks would be about as much as I'd want to fit, 120mm should be plenty for all but real serious downhill territory, for me at least.
After years of riding in the "head down, arse up" XC style on most of my bikes I recently fitted some newer (read: longer axle to crown) forks on one of my bikes, coupled with a few more spacers under the stem, and it's really transformed the ride, more relaxed, and better for riding longer distances too.
Try it, maybe even some 150mm travel forks, with the option to run 120mm if you found it a bit too much?
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I fitted the Fox Float R rear shock last week and what a revelation it is! Its transformed the the bike making it so much smoother and all round nicer to ride.
Ive not been a fan of air shocks in the past as the only ones Id tried were Risse. I find them hard and quite unresponsive compared to a coil spring shock. But the Fox Float is so smooth and responsive and even seems to have tightened up the rear end.
With the forks I guess im looking at Fox Float 120mm or may be Fox Tallas as you have the choice of travel. The Tallas are a little heavier but Im not sure you would notice it. Ill look for a deal and get the one that comes up first.
Very happy so far!
Chris
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I remember not too long ago my suggestion to upgrade to telescoping forks was met with cries of "blasphemer! You're ruining Bob Girvin's masterwork!" Glad to see people are finally coming around to my way of thinking. ;D The Vector/Crosslink design is unique and has certain benefits in certain situations, but telescoping forks have advanced a LOT since 1997, and they just plain work better nowadays. I suppose the same could be said about multi-link rear suspension vs. single-pivot, but one notable difference is that respectable bikes still use single-pivot nowadays; linkage forks, not so much.
100-120mm is about perfect for these bikes. I haven't had cause to wish for more suspension than that.
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Mr fyrstormer,
Might I point you back towards my opening post. As I say,I have several proflex's built. 3 have crosslinks and one has Pace tele's. All however have 3" of travel.
My reason for this build is to gain longer travel to cope with the bigger hits. Im probably riding faster down hill than Ive ever ridden, Its just the competition ie Orange 5 has got better! If they made 4" or 5" crosslinks I would gladly fit them as I love my crosslinks and have no problem with the way they handle down hill.
My feeling is that if I modernise one of my bike I will have best of both worlds - classic style and handling from my crosslinks and crappy modern compfy bounciness perfection from the modern tele fork. ;)
Im using my 4000 as the test rig but will swap everything over onto the carbon 4500 I have hanging on the wall. Its going to get discs aswell to complete the modernising.
Im quite excited as its been a while since ive built anything and its always nice playing with quality parts.
I will agree though that times have improved things and air shocks/forks have come on a long way. But I do still love my crosslinks! ;D
Long live Crosslinks
Chris
Ps. my 957 has Pace tele's and a baby seat fitted to the top tube. You can't fit a baby seat with crosslinks!!
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I remember not too long ago my suggestion to upgrade to telescoping forks was met with cries of "blasphemer! You're ruining Bob Girvin's masterwork!" Glad to see people are finally coming around to my way of thinking. ;D The Vector/Crosslink design is unique and has certain benefits in certain situations, but telescoping forks have advanced a LOT since 1997, and they just plain work better nowadays. I suppose the same could be said about multi-link rear suspension vs. single-pivot, but one notable difference is that respectable bikes still use single-pivot nowadays; linkage forks, not so much.
100-120mm is about perfect for these bikes. I haven't had cause to wish for more suspension than that.
blasphemer! stone him! stone him!
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:)
Chris
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My reason for this build is to gain longer travel to cope with the bigger hits. Im probably riding faster down hill than Ive ever ridden, Its just the competition ie Orange 5 has got better! If they made 4" or 5" crosslinks I would gladly fit them as I love my crosslinks and have no problem with the way they handle down hill.
My feeling is that if I modernise one of my bike I will have best of both worlds - classic style and handling from my crosslinks and crappy modern compfy bounciness perfection from the modern tele fork. ;)
However you want to justify your conversion to yourself, the dark side is still happy to welcome you. I'll go see if the cookies are ready. ;D
A truly modern telescoping fork shouldn't bounce much. That's what inertia valves are for, to lock-out the fork until pressure is sensed at the bottom end of the fork instead of the top end.
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I had my Animal stolen 18 months ago and after a bit of a sulk I bought a 97 beast frame and also a 97 757 frame.The beast I have fitted 120mm Manitu Blacks,Hope xc4 disk brakes, riser bars and retained the coil rear shock it is my AM setup. I have to say that I love it the front end hight took some getting used to but the ride is fantastic. The 757 is still being built but has Pace Rc36 evo 3's 90mm ,Risse rear shock ,Hope mini disk brakes, super light wheels and lots of silly light parts. This will be my XC machine and I have to say I am very excited about this bike I am hoping to squeak it under 24lbs
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Welcome to the dark side. 8)
I gave up on crosslinks when they j-pathed under, locked up the wheel and sent me into an embankment. That crash broke my shoulder blade thru the socket and crushed my collarbone. Carbon vectors I got along with but Doug has it now. I have 4 sets of MegaAirs which are amazing, and a Maverick Duc32 on my OZ.
For me Proflexes of all models benefit from 4 inchs(100mm for the aust-euro-brit-opeans) of travel.
I would post pictures but Village fotos got cyberterminated.
Terry
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Ive decided to build the 4500 straight off instead of altering my 4000. So Ive bought the forks, Fox Talas which adjust between 90-130mm. Theory being I can tune the ride height to find the best set up that suits the me and the frame geometry.
Ive also bought Easton EA70XC wheels, Hope Xtech disc brakes, Crank brothers xc/race head set (65g) and a spoon sadle. Already got c/f seat post,stem,bars and a Fox Float shock for the rear.
Ive got new front and rear XT derailers, just need a crank set to start the build. I want a 9 speed XT but cant make up my mind. Do external bearing bb fit 4500/OZ frames? Any recomendations?
It should hopefully turn out a fairly light longer travel xc ride to complement my stable of 3 crosslink flex's and 1 with Pace RC36. One for all occations you could say.
Long live crosslinks.
Chris
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Ive decided to build the 4500 straight off instead of altering my 4000. So Ive bought the forks, Fox Talas which adjust between 90-130mm. Theory being I can tune the ride height to find the best set up that suits the me and the frame geometry.
Ive also bought Easton EA70XC wheels, Hope Xtech disc brakes, Crank brothers xc/race head set (65g) and a spoon sadle. Already got c/f seat post,stem,bars and a Fox Float shock for the rear.
Ive got new front and rear XT derailers, just need a crank set to start the build. I want a 9 speed XT but cant make up my mind. Do external bearing bb fit 4500/OZ frames? Any recomendations?
It should hopefully turn out a fairly light longer travel xc ride to complement my stable of 3 crosslink flex's and 1 with Pace RC36. One for all occations you could say.
Long live crosslinks.
Chris
Nice Chris. Can't wait to see it.
Don't have any idea if external bearing bb works. From the looks it should.
Terry
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Outboard crank bearings work fine, you just have to get the BB shell faced using professional tools, because the outboard bearings will bind and waste energy unless they are PERFECTLY parallel to each other.
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hmm I wonder how one of my local bike shops will reply if I buy a crank set on line but ask them to fit it? Sooo much cheaper on line. I can only ask...
Chris
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Most of them, actually. They make their money from labor. They know they can't compete on the cost of parts.
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But the trade off is that some bike shops will fit any item purchased from them for free.
Col.
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I've never seen that. Interesting.
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I'm picking up my crank set today so I should be able to finally start the build soon, work and child permitting! I went with a Shimano M770 9 speed in the end as it was in my budget and seems to have very good reviews. Time to have talk with my LBS to get it fitted..
Chris
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Crank set is officially lovely! Proper nice bit of kit and so light. This build should turn out very nice.
Chris