K2 / Proflex Riders Group
General => Tech Forum => Topic started by: Sheriff1972 on June 24, 2011, 05:24:14 pm
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Hi,
This is my first mountain bike purchase, as i do road stuff normally.
I wanted to go out with my mates on the rough stuff so i thought i would get something different to their Marin's, Whytes etc
As luck would have it i bought a very nice condition Red Proflex K2 4000 this week for 200 quid.
It is in really nice condition, and has barely been used from what i can tell.
Before i start to properly use it, i would like to know what i should do, in order to service the bike.
The suspension is not as smooth as i would like, and the spring on the smart shock on the front is rusty.
To what level should i strip down the forks on the front end?
Is it easy to service the shocks themselves, or should i just get a replacement? I have seen posts about Fox air shocks, but no real definitive guide on which ones work best.
Please be gentle as this is all a bit new to me, but i want to make sure the bike is in decent fettle before i start to use it properly.
Once i have done that, i will try and figure out what to do to make it a bit lighter...
Cheers
Sheriff
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Welcome Sheriff.
First thing I would do is 5 minute jiffy lube by OP on the swingarm. You will find a link in the How tos section.
Then my thing for linkage forks was to loosen the left side pivot screws and squirt some spray grease in them. Then tighten and do the other side and tighten. Wipe clean.
I guess clean and check the shocks to see if they are blown.
Terry
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Well, i have stripped and lubed what i could, and it took me ages (according to my wife)....
The bike did not seem to be been lubed at all....!
So rear swing arm was done and now working as it should (really useful guide!)
Front cross link - well it all came apart except for the large hex bolt that secures the bottom of the smart shock. Need to figure out a good way of removing that, in order to get the spring off the shock - apart from that it all went ok.
I am missing one of the two tiny screws that centers the upper and lower crosslink axels that the front forks mount to (front center when looking at the bike) - anyone know what size these things are?
Apart from that, the shocks are in good order (i think), but once i inflated the original tyres to recommended pressure they split around the raised part of the tread - still what do i expect for a tyre of that age...!!
Lastly, the back wheel needs replacement bearings as it is a bit of a pepper grinder - this should be done by tomorrow.
Suspension setup: Is there a dummies guide to setting up the suspension on the bike? I am 190lbs in weight. The rear spring says 300 on it and the damper has a little knurled knob on it that can ne turner either way, the front spring i have no idea as the yellow cover has peeled away giving no clues.
Sorry if i am being a bit dumb, but any help would be appreciated.
P.S. Any sources for some nice new springs as the rest of the bike is mint, except for these rusty springs...
Cheers
Sheriff
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If the rear spring says 300lbs, that indicates to me that it is an x57 frame? What I mean is it has a strut and cone shock?
Standard spring rate for Evo style frame without strut is 400 to 500lbs rating.
For reference, I think Manitou springs fit.
Terry
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Hi,
Thanks for the speedy reply.
I have not yet sat on it as my back wheel it still being sorted.
Please check the link here that came from the guy i bought it off.
https://picasaweb.google.com/Mike.Gregory69/Proflex4000
I can post some more later if it helps.
If it is too soft, any source for springs, or should i get a Risse - they seem quite popular, but not easily available for us Brits.
Cheers
Sheriff
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Nice bike. That bike(Evo style) I think came with 500 to 550lbs spring.
I think I would look for a Manitou or Fox shock first. The plateform shocks are the bomb.
Here is mine.
(http://old.villagephotos.com/image.asp?id_=13198700)
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Hi Shovelon,
Thanks for the words of encouragement!
for some reason i cant see the pictures of your bike.
I have looked on Ebay in the UK at a few replacement shocks, and there are a few Fox Float RP23's kicking about with 200 mm eye to eye. There is also one with 215 mm eye to eye.
Any advice on the one to try, or indeed any other model (Fox shock seem quite common over here)
I have a funny feeling, this is the beginning of a slippery slope...
Cheers
Sheriff
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Terry,
This one any good?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290580307052&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_500wt_922
in america, but will send or
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/manitou-swinger-rear-shock-/280702746482?pt=UK_sportsleisure_cycling_bikeparts_SR&hash=item415b2fff72#ht_500wt_1156
i have mailed them to check the eye to eye measurement.
or an example of the fox with 200mm eye to eye
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330580084166&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_1686wt_1139
Cheers
Mike
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I am a Swinger guy, so the first 2 look nice. The first one is new and lighter than the second. Even though 8.25 inches is stock, I have an 8.5" and it works great. I really like the Air swingers because they are lighter, but hey the prices are right.
Here is a link to the image.
http://old.villagephotos.com/image.asp?id_=13198700
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Hi Terry,
I still cant see a picture of your bike - permission denied!!!
I thought that i would follow your lead, and bought the new air swinger 8.5, and it should arrive in a few days. I guess $70 plus shipping is not too bad for a new item.
It has a 650lb spring on it, and i am 190 lbs, so lets see if i can get it set up properly.
Once i find a tool to remove the front smart shock, what should i replace that with...
Cheers
Mike
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The tools you need to remove the bottom axle on the cross links is just a standard hex key set. Two hex keys to be exact. Cant remember off the top of my head which size but they are both in a standard bike set. It has a larger hex in the end of the axle on one side and a smaller hex (6mm?)bolt that screws into the other side. Hold the axle from turning with the larger hex key and unscrew the smaller hex bolt. Then use the larger hex key to gently wind out the axle. It may seem a little stiff as there are two O rings on it. Grease it well with bike greese and refit. Its worth bearing in mind that lock tight was used and recomended on all the bolts.
I bought my 4000 new and its still the best bike i have. Happy ridding!
Chris
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Hi Chris,
Thanks - it is this big bolt that i am having trouble with.
I will just have to use more force i guess.
Wheel is back from the LBS, and it is now silky smooth.
I will have to get a torque wrenth and locktite the bolt in place, but the bolt that is fraying my nerves is the one that secures the top of the front smart shock in place.
It does not want to screw in - i will sort it when i am more patient.
The new Rear shock should arrive soon, as the rear ias it is has too much sag i think.
Either that or i need to go on a crash diet.
Looking forward to finally taking ir for a blast!
Thank you both for your help.
Cheers
Mike
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For the record, the nylon bushings on Pro-Flex frames are supposed to be greased with a silicone/teflon grease. Petroleum grease will damage the nylon bushings over time. (it may take years to do noticeable damage, but considering most of the parts are non-replaceable at this point...)
Some of the bushings on my 756 and 857 were extremely tight, to the point that I had to use tools to press the aluminum parts in and out during service. I eventually figured out the problem was due to the anodized coating, which hardens the surface of the aluminum but also makes the parts slightly bigger. I used my Dremel as a makeshift lathe to spin the aluminum bushings while I held strips of emery paper against them as they spun, to sand them down evenly. They fit much better afterwards and my suspension became noticeably more responsive.
It's the sort of thing I don't think anyone would notice until they upgrade from the elastomer shocks the older Pro-Flex bikes came with, because any extra damping (even from badly-fitting parts) is necessary on those frames -- not so much needed once a proper oil-damped shock is installed.
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Just an idea.. You might have tried this already but engage the top shock bolt before you push the larger bottom axle through. This way you can move the shock around a little to line up the holes in the top mount. The bottom axle will line up no problem.
Fyrstormer is right about the silicone/Teflon greese. I refered to it as bike greese meaning the same thing.
Chris
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Hi Guys,
Sorry for the relative silence.
i have been working away.
The metal rods that feed through the nylon bushings with the tiny hole in them came out without a problem (both top and bottom), i used teflon based grease on everything here, just to make sure all is well - it looked like these had not been greased before!
Also, since i have been away, my new rear shock has arrived. I got a Swinger SPV 3 way on Terrys advice...
I will need to find a way to get the fixings out of the old shock that came with the bike (what a tight fit!) - i guess some kind of press will sort that out.
I managed to get the front shock, mounted onto the frame once again, but the bottom hex bolt has beaten me for the moment - just need more leverage and a bit more nerve....
Any tips on setting up the swinger shock for the bike. I have seen some contradictory posts (and manuals) on the web.
i am (ahem) 190 lbs
Cheers
Mike
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Have bike, have the new rear shock, and now I realise that I have no mounting hardware for it.
Can anyone tell me what I need for my eve frame and where to buy from? (I am in the UK)
Thanks
Mike
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Try Chain Reaction
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Categories.aspx?CategoryID=683 (http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Categories.aspx?CategoryID=683)
Col
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Thanks Col,
I will have to get the old ruler out to see what sizes i need.
Cant wait!
Cheers
Mike
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Hi Col,
Loving those wheels.....
What are they?
Anyway, went out on my first run today.
Took a gentle tumble once into some bracken, and hit the dirt fairly hard a second time... :-(
Bike runs well, but i am still using what looks like the original tyres from 1998 (!) - Panaracer or something.
They had no grip at all in the wet and on the trails on Haldon Hill near exeter.
Other than that the bike felt good.
The front 'smart shock' seems to be dead (no light), and am yet to sort out the mounting hardware for the swinger.
All in all was great fun and the bike had a few knowing and an equal amount of quizical looks from other trail riders...
Any suggestions for general XC riding?
Cheers
Mike
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Hi Col,
Loving those wheels.....
What are they?
Anyway, went out on my first run today.
Took a gentle tumble once into some bracken, and hit the dirt fairly hard a second time... :-(
Bike runs well, but i am still using what looks like the original tyres from 1998 (!) - Panaracer or something.
They had no grip at all in the wet and on the trails on Haldon Hill near exeter.
Any suggestions for general XC riding?
Cheers
Mike
Spinergy wheels - some people are very anti them becuase of reported failures, I'm taking my chances with them.
I've used them on my XP-X and 4000se
(http://idriders.com/proflex/coppermine/albums/userpics/10284/normal_IMG0007.JPG) (http://idriders.com/proflex/coppermine/albums/userpics/10284/normal_IMG_1150.JPG)
I'm using 2.1" Panaracer Fire XC tyres at the mo' and really like them.
I also use 2.1" WTB Velociraptors which I find work well when it's wet and muddy.
You're probably just getting used to the bike, have you ridden a full-susser before? If not then it's a quite different feel to a rigid, and the Crosslinks can take a bit of getting used to...........
Oh yeah and in reply to one of your earlier Q's:-
I am missing one of the two tiny screws that centers the upper and lower crosslink axels that the front forks mount to (front center when looking at the bike) - anyone know what size these things are?
I think you mean the tiny Grease port screws? In which case they're M2.
see the Crosslink manual for useful info on setting them up.
http://idriders.com/proflex/resources/98crosslink_manual.pdf (http://idriders.com/proflex/resources/98crosslink_manual.pdf)
Col.
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Not to rain on Colin's parade, but for the sake of information, the problem with the 4-spoke Spinergy wheels is:
As the wheel rotates, the spoke junctions on the rim get flexed back and forth because the spokes have to support loads up to 45 degrees off-axis, which causes the spoke junctions to fail eventually. Furthermore, the spokes are "reinforced" using rivets that cut through many of the carbon fibers running the length of the spokes. Carbon fiber doesn't fail progressively like metal does, it just snaps. When one of the four spokes breaks, there will be nothing capable of supporting the rider's weight when the broken spoke rotates to the top of the wheel, and the resulting forces on the remaining three spokes will cause all three to tear apart from the rim within a single wheel rotation. That gives the rider no time to stop or even time to brace for a crash. That's why Spinergy stopped making them in the late 90's.
The 4-spoke wheels look cool, but several riders have ended up with unexpected titanium "upgrades" to their jaws and spines because of them.
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I use Panaracer fire xc 2.1 also and think theyre great.
Better to be safe than sorry Colin and sell those wheels to me! ;)
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Hi Guys,
Very useful advice as always.
I have ridden a full sus bike before - a GT, but it never saw a trail before it was stolen from my garage...
The tyres on the bike had turned a light greay and seemed brittle and a bit shiny. They also have splits around the knobles, and some cracking around the edge.
I think they are just knackered...
I bought some Kenda Excavator Eric Carter Signature Series tyres that i will fit on this weekend. These should help.
I must also measure up for the mounting hardware for the swiger rear shock and mount this and set up the front and rear properly....
Thanks for the screw size Col - i will grab one at the weekend.
As for the wheels, i will get some others in a few months, as the originals are impossible to true as the spokes seem fused to the nipples.... (Guess i will stick to regular designs, as i dont really enjoying hitting the ground at any meaningful pace...)
All in all i am really enjoying the process, and cant wait to get the bike it dirty again.
Cheers
Mike
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Hi Guys,
Looking to order the rear shock mounting hardware...
I make the space at the top of the frame nearest the seat to be 30mm, with a 6 mm thread size
and the bottom mounting onto the carbon swing arm to be 22.2mm x 6mm (looks more like 5mm).
Is anyone in a position to confirm?
Below is a link
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=7466
Thanks
Mike
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My carbon swingarm measures 24 mm between the blades.
Terry