K2 / Proflex Riders Group
General => Tech Forum => Topic started by: arch-stanton on June 08, 2010, 06:29:56 am
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Hello,
Firstly, I'm new to the site, so Hi everyone... secondly and more importantly I guess, I have just acquired a Proflex 756.. i got it from Ebay last week, it's in pretty much standard, good condition, except for the age old problem, which you guys are fully aware of... the shocks.. I've had a good look around the site and the information on here is great, however I'm having a problem actually identifying which type of shocks I have on the bike. Any help you can give me would be great and then I can crack on and decide which way I'm going to go with the rebuild..
Ok, the front shock is a Girvin, that's all it says, originally it had the elastomers in, but the previous owner has fitted (very poorly) some springs, which just don't move.
I'm guessing that these are Vector 1's ?
The rear shock, again had elastomers in and springs subsequently fitted, which don't fit and don't work! I've taken them apart and they're a very simple design, with an air chamber in the middle of the shock.. Noleen ?
I have pictures of them both, but am still working out how to actually post them on here! (it's fair to say, I'm not a tech head!)
Anyways, thanks in anticipation..
Arch.
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Hi, I use Photobucket for my pics. I just opened an account (free), uploaded the pics, then hover over the pic you want and "copy" the IMG code, then paste that into my post on here.
As for shocks, I'm not clued up on the Urethane/ODS shocks but there's plenty on here who are :)
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Great, cheers jimbob.. that's one problem I can sort.. will attempt to upload some pics...
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link to pics of the shock is here..
http://s914.photobucket.com/albums/ac345/arch-stanton6275/proflex/
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http://suspensionforkparts.net/eshop/index.php
That links to some urethane springs. Your shocks are the original friction shocks. If you pop the tops, you will find inside one or two rubber balls that should have some grease to allow movement in there. My best guess is that they use entrapped air and friction to damp the spring action as they compress. Use a synthetic grease that won't eat the rubber balls. An alternative grease can be found in the electrical department of the big home improvement stores. Silicone grease wire pulling compound is the stuff but I also had success with blue waterproof wheel bearing grease for boat trailers too.
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That's great, thank you.. at least i know what i'm looking for now... I've taken the shocks to bits and the ball is in there as you say, the seals look a bit worn though and they don't seem to hold air as you suggest, maybe new seals are required? I've taken the whole bike to bits in an afternoon and I can honestly say, it's been a pleasure to work on :)
so far that is!
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They don't really hold air so much as just promote a semi-controlled leak. They resist the speed of compression when you hit a bump and then resist the spring return so it doesn't pitch you over the bars on extension. Kinda sorta like your springs and shocks do on the car.
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w2zero
Yeah, that's more or less what I've got with mine.. Is there anywhere I can source some springs? The guy I bought it off fitted some random springs, which as I say, don't work, the compression on them is way too high and they don't even fit.. he'd used metal washers to bridge the gap..
cheers.
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w2zero
Yeah, that's more or less what I've got with mine.. Is there anywhere I can source some springs? The guy I bought it off fitted some random springs, which as I say, don't work, the compression on them is way too high and they don't even fit.. he'd used metal washers to bridge the gap..
cheers.
Welcome,
The only springs suitable for those shocks are the urethane ones. The ODS version shock had oil in them and could use coil springs, but new caps and retainers had to be made. RDI Scotland, the only place that made and sold them closed this year.
I saw that J6Noleen has come out with shocks for the front and rear of your bike. But $400 is really alot of cash. I would go for the Urethane listed in the post above.
Terry
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Terry
Thanks for that, I had a look at the Noleen site earlier.. nice, but as you say, expensive... I think the elastomer route makes sense for now.. the only route!.. can I ask what your thoughts are on the Land rover suspension bushes that some guys have used?..
cheers.
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I was just looking at your pictures again. Those springs look extra stiff. I measured my springs that range from 200# up to 325# and they were all 6.5 to 7 mm wire size and six to eight turns at 3 to 3-3/4" between the adjusters.
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Terry
Thanks for that, I had a look at the Noleen site earlier.. nice, but as you say, expensive... I think the elastomer route makes sense for now.. the only route!.. can I ask what your thoughts are on the Land rover suspension bushes that some guys have used?..
cheers.
Don't know about the Land Rover bushes. If they are cheap, why not try. I put in urethane tube in my Offroad that I got from McMasterCarr and it works great. Spent about $20 before I got the right durometer.
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w2zero
The springs are 8mm wire diameter and 45mm in actual spring diameter, 75mm length uncompressed.. with 750LBS/IN stamped on the side.. as I say, they don't even fit the cups, nor are they long enough.. with me being new to Proflex I thought the shock could be upgraded to a spring..
Terry
The Land Rover bushes are on e bay now £1.99 for 8 plus a small p&p charge, I've read on here, or maybe Retrobike, about them being drilled vertically to soften the bush suitably for your weight... as you say, inexpensive and worth a try given my options, plus it will at least get me riding and I can then take some time to source an ODS upgrade.. or find one of the other aftermarket shocks..
I will order the Land Rover bushes and get back to you with the results...
Oh, here's the link to them
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Land-Rover-Discovery-1-Front-Shock-Absorber-Bush-Kit-/270350608362?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item3ef226e7ea
cheers.
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w2zero
The springs are 8mm wire diameter and 45mm in actual spring diameter, 75mm length uncompressed.. with 750LBS/IN stamped on the side.. as I say, they don't even fit the cups, nor are they long enough.. with me being new to Proflex I thought the shock could be upgraded to a spring..
Terry
The Land Rover bushes are on e bay now £1.99 for 8 plus a small p&p charge, I've read on here, or maybe Retrobike, about them being drilled vertically to soften the bush suitably for your weight... as you say, inexpensive and worth a try given my options, plus it will at least get me riding and I can then take some time to source an ODS upgrade.. or find one of the other aftermarket shocks..
I will order the Land Rover bushes and get back to you with the results...
Oh, here's the link to them
[url]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Land-Rover-Discovery-1-Front-Shock-Absorber-Bush-Kit-/270350608362?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item3ef226e7ea[/url]
cheers.
That's a bargain. ;)
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I used those land rover bushes on some Vectors - they afforded some 1" of travel - not great (and the travel wasn't exactly progressive/linear), but it gets you up and running and for the price you can't complain. I would say they are better suited to the rear end than the front.
(http://i48.tinypic.com/2zho0eh.jpg)
(http://i45.tinypic.com/23mscv8.jpg)
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In the long run you're really better off just buying a new fork and a Risse shock for the rear -- or a Noleen shock in good condition, if you can find one. I upgraded my 756 to a Noleen NR-2 in 1998, and put a Manitou SX-R fork on it in 2003, and never took a second look at the old elastomer shocks. If they worked better than springs, they would be worth refurbishing, but they don't.
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Keep searching for some ODS shocks. They will enable you to convert to springs without breaking the bank. Meanwhile, keep up the search for elastomers. Depending on what tools you have, you can find and check springs and elastomers for suitability. A bathroom scale and a tape measure will reveal spring rates. Suspension bushings can be made less linear by trimming them to a cone shape to change them to rising rate on rebound and compression.
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Hi again guys.. the rebuild is coming along nicely.. I've had a scout around on here, but no joy.. does anyone have a scan of the Vector 1 fork manual on here?.. I was a bit hasty stripping it down and I want to make sure everything goes back in the right place!
cheers.
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should find all you need right here http://idriders.com/proflex/tech/ (http://idriders.com/proflex/tech/)
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Cheers w2zero
there doesn't appear to be anything specific to the vector 1 fork... Is the only difference between vector 1 and 2 the ods shock?
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I remember back when I had the original fork on my 756, I called K2 and asked if there were any upgrades available for its shock, and the answer was basically "no, your fork is too old and it uses a non-standard shock length, we never made an updated shock for it, we just built a new fork around a standard-length shock instead." Maybe you'll have better luck than I did, but if you don't, you're really not losing anything by switching to a newer telescopic fork -- they've improved dramatically over the past decade.
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I've got some nice Pace carbon forks sat in the garage that will look lovely on it.... I just want to see what the original ride would've been like... plus I think it's the vector fork which makes the Proflex stand out as one...... hmmm ... ::)
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I just want to see what the original ride would've been like... plus I think it's the vector fork which makes the Proflex stand out as one
When I ran the elastomers back in 95-98 I never had any complaints about their performance as long as they were maintained they worked quite well. The only issue I have ever had with the linkage fork in general was their lack of travel. I now own four linkage forks (six in all) that have five inches of usable travel and that works just fine for cross country riding in my opinion.
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I had a pile of parts and a bunch of inoperable squishies so I put together some ODS shocks and springs to replace them. I am very pleased with the result. No, not a lot of travel but then I started out having a great deal of fun with no suspension. I've always been one to make the most of equipment with the least $$. For even greater fun I do have to pick my victims, older, fatter and slower to be sure.
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I now own four linkage forks (six in all) that have five inches of usable travel and that works just fine for cross country riding in my opinion.
Is that 5" of usable travel between 6 forks, i.e. all of them added together? <GRIN>
I though the maximum from a CrossLink was 3" ???
How have you got 5" or is it some other linkage fork? ( I have a couple of sets of Fournales, but I'm pretty sure they only do about 3" as well.
Interested............
Col.
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I now own four linkage forks (six in all) that have five inches of usable travel and that works just fine for cross country riding in my opinion.
Is that 5" of usable travel between 6 forks, i.e. all of them added together? <GRIN>
I though the maximum from a CrossLink was 3" ???
How have you got 5" or is it some other linkage fork? ( I have a couple of sets of Fournales, but I'm pretty sure they only do about 3" as well.
Interested............
Col.
Yep, five between the six of em --- :P
I have three of the AMP F4BLT linkage forks that now provide five (well very close to five) inches of travel and a modified Look Fournales fork that is working thus far with a tad over five.
If the Look continues to work a while longer without blowing up I will happily supply the info on making the change.
My crosslinks are confined to three inches of very plush travel though and work very nicely with the Risse shocks.
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Aye, Fornales are 80mm..........just over three inches- be interested to see what yer mod is.
I still think elastomers are a good idea for short travel, if they are durable enough- almost zero maintenance, no seals or stanchions to get FUBAR'ed. ;)