K2 / Proflex Riders Group
General => Tech Forum => Topic started by: jimbob on June 06, 2010, 12:25:13 pm
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I need a new headset for my 1997 Proflex 857 as the (possibly original?) Dia-Compe Aheadset currently fitted is on its last legs.
My 3 favoured options are:
-Nukeproof Warhead SL
- Hope Headset
- Chris King "No Threadset"
Anyone see any issues with those listed? or any reason why they wouldn't work with the 857 frame?
I currently have a 5mm spacer under the Girvin crosslink fork clamp, and another 5mm spacer between the Girvin clamp and the stem so should have some room to adjust for varying top stack heights.
What do you guys use on your Proflex bikes?
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I only buy Deep Cup Headsets for mine. The first set that went into my 957 is an FSA orbit extreme. The alum frame ovaled out at the lower cup.
The one that I put into my Oz is an Acros AH7. I installed a 6 inch fork and wanted the firmer interface.
Both sets of alum cups had to be reduced about 2 to 3 mm though.
Of the two, I really like the German made Acros, and can be gotten in different colors.
Terry
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I have Chris King headsets on the 956, one of the 856's and the 4000. My wife's 955 has a wide headset, and the lower cup actually seems to contact the front shock spring.
Terry has a frame of mine right now where the owner used some cheap-o Tioga headset, installed it wrong and cracked the headtube on both the top and bottom. What a shame, because the frame looks to have so few miles on it.
Terry, what do you mean by "deep cup"? Does that mean that the part that fits inside the headtube is taller than on standard headsets, increasing the area over which impacts and force are distributed?
- Doug :-)
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Terry, what do you mean by "deep cup"? Does that mean that the part that fits inside the headtube is taller than on standard headsets, increasing the area over which impacts and force are distributed?
- Doug :-)
Yes. I have this one.
(http://www.entro.com.sg/images/acros_ah07_normal_black-pg9.gif)
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So, is that a DD or a DDD cup? :o ;D
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well, as I'm a tight Yorkshireman I picked up a Nukeproof Warhead SL headset today for £32. I seriously considered the Hope headset but my LBS only had it in blue, silver or grey, and I really wanted a headset in black or red.... of course the King headset is available in red but I just couldn't bear to part with £100 for one, especially as I bought the bike a few weeks ago for only £200!!!
I'm going to fit it this evening and will report back any issues/problems.
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FSA Orbit XL-II on four of my MTB frames with a standard top cap; not the funky one they made on the earlier versions(http://www.jejamescycles.co.uk/product-images-large/fsa-compressor-top-assembly-15397.jpg). Makes switching around forks easy. The one on my Oz is still in great shape after 11300+ miles.
Thunderchild
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I have Chris King headsets on the 956, one of the 856's and the 4000. My wife's 955 has a wide headset, and the lower cup actually seems to contact the front shock spring.
Terry has a frame of mine right now where the owner used some cheap-o Tioga headset, installed it wrong and cracked the headtube on both the top and bottom. What a shame, because the frame looks to have so few miles on it.
Terry, what do you mean by "deep cup"? Does that mean that the part that fits inside the headtube is taller than on standard headsets, increasing the area over which impacts and force are distributed?
- Doug :-)
I had wondered about the clearance issue ...
So is a king is ok on a 856 with a ods and cor spring ?
Cheers,
WD :)
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Are stock shimano headsets OK to use? I am rebuilding mine with a Deore LX one - The last time I tried to fit an uprated one, it was worse than stock Shimano! :(
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I think they are all fine to use. I just needed one to take up the looseness on mine.
I have never had any one fail.
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Well, the headset is now on, and it runs silky smooth ;D the old headset bottom race was well and truly buggered, looked like it hadn't seen any grease in years.
However.....
Some movement in the front end still remains, not as bad as it was, but it's still there. ???
I think I've traced it to the Crosslink forks. With the front brake on I can see a very small amount of movement at the linkage at the very top of the fork legs, it is this which I believe is causing the front end to still feel a little "loose".
What are my options here? I see that this seller on ebay has seal kits for the Crosslink forks...http://stores.ebay.co.uk/We-Sell-XS_Cycling_W0QQ_fsubZ9257799QQ_sidZ92593645QQ_trksidZp4634Q2ec0Q2em322 (http://stores.ebay.co.uk/We-Sell-XS_Cycling_W0QQ_fsubZ9257799QQ_sidZ92593645QQ_trksidZp4634Q2ec0Q2em322)
Which kit(s) would I need to overhaul the forks?
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You are 100% sure that the top clamps are fully seated down? It usually takes me two or three tries and a ride to finish the adjustment.
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You are 100% sure that the top clamps are fully seated down? It usually takes me two or three tries and a ride to finish the adjustment.
Well, I could be wrong, but the headset seems to be ok.
When I rock the bike on the front brake I can't feel or see any movement at the headset, it's at the linkage at the very top of the fork legs where I can see a very small amount of movement, and I mean very small, but I guess by the time the movement has transferred to the wheel it's more noticable.
I'm away with work for the next ten days, but as soon as I get a chance I'll take it for a ride and see what's what.
On a side not... I take it the two tiny screws on the linkage are covering grease ports? ( the WTB front hub has a similar thing)
and should the plastic end caps which cover the ends of the top linkage also be present on the lower linkage just below the bottom headset race?
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Well, the headset is now on, and it runs silky smooth ;D the old headset bottom race was well and truly buggered, looked like it hadn't seen any grease in years.
However.....
Some movement in the front end still remains, not as bad as it was, but it's still there. ???
I think I've traced it to the Crosslink forks. With the front brake on I can see a very small amount of movement at the linkage at the very top of the fork legs, it is this which I believe is causing the front end to still feel a little "loose".
What are my options here? I see that this seller on ebay has seal kits for the Crosslink forks...[url]http://stores.ebay.co.uk/We-Sell-XS_Cycling_W0QQ_fsubZ9257799QQ_sidZ92593645QQ_trksidZp4634Q2ec0Q2em322[/url] ([url]http://stores.ebay.co.uk/We-Sell-XS_Cycling_W0QQ_fsubZ9257799QQ_sidZ92593645QQ_trksidZp4634Q2ec0Q2em322[/url])
Which kit(s) would I need to overhaul the forks?
The seals won't allow any movement, they just stop dirt getting into the bearings, which possibly may need replacing
he has them as well: K2 NOLEEN Pro-Flex RK006 Bearing Kit Girvan AL/X-Link
Bottom line is, that you probably need to do a full strip and service on the forks to see if there are any problems.
It's not difficult and very therapeutic if you have the time!
There's just the one grease port screw as I remember it on the upper pivot axle I believe?
The plastic bits I think you are referring to are just bump protectors to stop the forks damaging the frame too much at full rotation, I think they just came on the top pivots on later models and as aftermarket fork spares.
Col.
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Both of my headsets are FSA Orbits. I don't remember the models exactly, but the one on the 756 has cylinder bearings in the lower cup, and the one in the 857 has ball bearings in both cups.
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Would a CK Devolution work on our steeds?
http://chrisking.com/headsets/hds_devo (http://chrisking.com/headsets/hds_devo)
(http://chrisking.com/files/images/headsets/Devo_Red.jpg)
or would the little 1 1/8th shoulder on the bottom of the steerer preclude it?
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There's just the one grease port screw as I remember it on the upper pivot axle I believe?
No there is 2 on the x-links. Upper and lower axels.
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I am in the middle of rebuilding my x-links and there are 6 grease ports. Only 2 have screws in them.
As far as headsets, I just put a Campagnolo Record on mine.
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I am in the middle of rebuilding my x-links and there are 6 grease ports. Only 2 have screws in them.
Yes, you're right, there is a Grease port on the lower pivot axle rod as well, I forgot about that! I was thinking of the RK006 spares rebuild kit which supplies just one spare greaseport screw.
http://idriders.com/proflex/resources/97_spc-crosslink.pdf (http://idriders.com/proflex/resources/97_spc-crosslink.pdf)
As for the other 4 you mention without screws, from looking at the Upper and Lower link Assemblies, yes there are grease ports for the Sleeve Bearings which are force fitted into the Link Assemblies, and assuming that the bearing is drilled through then grease could be applied to the Pivot Axles.
In fact, in the RK006 Kit instructions it does say that the bearings will need to be drilled, and it implies to do this before fitting them, but imagine trying to align the holes! I think it would be much easier to drill them after fitting, by using the hole in the assembly as a pilot.
Good discussion, knowledge is increasing!
Col.
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I'd be interested in recommendations for a replacement headset for my XP-X (x56 style bike)
The OEM one has finally become notchy after 13 years of use!
I'm planning to rebuild it with a set of Fournales with a disc brake for road use for my LEJoG trip this September.
so lightweight is good, quality level I normally go for would be "XT" level but I'm open to non-Shimano items.
Thanks
Colin S
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Is it threaded or threadless? And is it 1" or 1 1/8"? I don't remember. I'll report on how my Campy headset held up from the race weekend. But, someone on the Campy forum mentioned that BMX racers were using record headsets at one point. And they are light, that's for sure. I got mine for $60ish shipped out of England.
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I'd be interested in recommendations for a replacement headset for my XP-X (x56 style bike)
The OEM one has finally become notchy after 13 years of use!
I'm planning to rebuild it with a set of Fournales with a disc brake for road use for my LEJoG trip this September.
so lightweight is good, quality level I normally go for would be "XT" level but I'm open to non-Shimano items.
Thanks
Colin S
My OEM headset became notchy after I hit a moving car with it. ;D It did successfully catapult itself over the car and me with it, so I gotta give it props for that. I didn't have the money to replace it until two years later, though. I ultimately went with an FSA headset with cylindrical rollers in the lower bearing, because that was the bearing that suffered the most damage when I hit the car, so I wanted something stronger for next time.
If you're going to mix disc and rim brakes, you want Avid brake levers. They have adjustable leverage so you can make mismatched brakes feel the same.
I prefer SRAM Gripshift shifters, but for all the rest of the drivetrain parts I haven't found anything better than Shimano. I use a Race Face crankset because it fits an ISIS bottom bracket, not because it's better than Shimano.
I take that back, I also use an SRAM chain because the SRAM MasterLink makes it super-easy to remove and clean the chain properly. (cleaning the chain on the bike is a waste of effort -- a glass jar full of turpentine is the best chain cleaner ever, and it always will be.) Also, skip the fancy chain lubes and just keep the chain clean. I use Tri-Flow chain oil w/teflon, and I clean the chain twice a year. Only ever replaced the chain twice, because if dirt doesn't get into the rollers, it doesn't wear them out.
Cane Creek bar-ends are to die for. They can replace the outboard clamps on a pair of ODI bolt-on handlebar grips too, which is nice. I have that setup on my bike. I'll never use slide-on handlebar grips again.
I put a Dura-Ace upper derailleur pulley on my Deore XT derailleur, because I wanted ball bearings on both pulleys and Dura-Ace is the only group that offers them. It's worked delightfully thus far.
Always use Fond de Jante cotton rim tape. Don't even bother with anything else. FdJ is thick to prevent sharp edges inside the rim from cutting through it, and it's the only brand I've used that won't disintegrate or start peeling off after a couple of years.
That's about all the useful bike-guru knowledge I have.
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Just updating on the Campy headset. It's a HUGE improvement. But then again, I never lubed my old headset (I haven't really ridden that much since I've owned it). The stack height is 24.5mm and it's a claimed 110g. But smooth, oh man is it smooth. I'm no longer fighting the bike to go where I want it too. The only issue is the top cap. Because the inner diameter of the steerer tube is 22(ish)mm the campy stem cap that comes with it won't work. See, it's got this plastic part (dougnut?) below the carbon cap that is suppose to slide into the steerer tube to act as a straightener encase the star nut is off tilt a bit (which mine is). But it's meant to fit in 25ish mm inner diameter steerer tubes like the one on my Bianchi Axis CX bike, which is where it is now. Other than that bit a of chaos, it works great! Really great!
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Running a Chris King in mine at the moment and love it. This head set has out lived a few bikes.
I also really like the Ritchey head sets and have never had an issue with FSA.
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Replacing Headsets and rebuilding Freewheels are the couple of jobs I don't do myself on my bikes.
That's why my XP-X is in the LBS for a new headset just now, but a whole week to turn around!
What tools do you need to do a headset?
I guess it's:-
a remover (glorified split flared tube by the looks of it)
a headset press, (very expensive!)
a Crown race remover (again pretty expensive) but I have heard about using two small flat screwdrivers as levers , not what they are intended for!)
Any difference on modern headsets? i.e. sealed without seperate bearings, do you have to fit a piece to the fork?
Any advice or thoughts on doing this job yourself?
Col.
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True, the cup removal tool is just a piece of tubing split and flared.
A press can be made from a long piece of all-thread rod, two nuts and some big washers.
Yes, two screwdrivers or similar can be used to remove the crown race but he most important thing is patience and incremental progress equally spaced.
Seriously, I worked for a LBS in the early eighties that had very few bike specific tools. We used hammers and wood blocks to install headsets and hammer and drift to remove same. The owner printed up 14.99 tune up coupons and we made so much money on accessories, cables and new bikes as a result that he bought the Park tool set and a Campy frame buillder tool set to bring us out of the dark ages of mech. Unfortunately, the best racers make the worst mechanics and some Italian wall art ensued.
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Im with you on that,my tool kit consist of just the same.....All my other tool's are SNAP-ON....
I used to work as a contractor for the NHS repairing custom built wheelchairs & mobility aid's on call 7 days a week,so when your miles from home and faced with a problem of giving someone there independence back or take it away to the workshop for days at a time you make do with what is in the back of the van..
Yes, two screwdrivers or similar can be used to remove the crown race but the most important thing is patience and incremental progress equally spaced.Hammers and wood blocks to install headsets and hammer and drift to remove same. ;D
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True, the cup removal tool is just a piece of tubing split and flared.
A press can be made from a long piece of all-thread rod, two nuts and some big washers.
Yes, two screwdrivers or similar can be used to remove the crown race but he most important thing is patience and incremental progress equally spaced.
Seriously, I worked for a LBS in the early eighties that had very few bike specific tools. We used hammers and wood blocks to install headsets and hammer and drift to remove same. The owner printed up 14.99 tune up coupons and we made so much money on accessories, cables and new bikes as a result that he bought the Park tool set and a Campy frame buillder tool set to bring us out of the dark ages of mech. Unfortunately, the best racers make the worst mechanics and some Italian wall art ensued.
Well, what do you expect? Racers want things done fast, and they have no patience, least of all for their own limitations as human beings, that's why racing appeals to them. When I ride, I ride flat-out, because it feels good, but it's not racing, because there's nothing to win or to prove. And when I work on my bike, I don't see the problems with the bike as challenges to my sense of self-worth, so I don't just bang on it until it cooperates. That's why my bike is 14 years old and still running.
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Thanks Guys,
I'll see what sort of a job they make of it and consider doing it myself in the future.
in the meantime, any thoughts on my other Q?
"Any difference on modern headsets? i.e. sealed without seperate bearings, do you have to fit a piece to the fork?"
I have a 5500 carbon frame with a new Hope headset fitted that I have no idea if it's complete or not, maybe I need to post some Piccie's?
Thanks
Col.
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The crown race still has to be fitted to the fork the same as it would be if the bearings were loose. The only difference is the crown race doesn't touch the bearings directly anymore.
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Cane Creek S-3 fitted to my XP-X (856) by my LBS £45 all in.
(http://s.wiggle.co.uk/images/cane-creek-s3.jpg)
Product Size(") Stack Upper Height Lower Gms I/S* Dia O/D* Dia Bearings
S3 1 1/8 15.1 15.1 112 34 41 Replaceable Sealed
Col.