K2 / Proflex Riders Group
General => Tech Forum => Topic started by: mootsguy on March 10, 2010, 01:57:49 pm
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Hello again, after a longish absence I have returned with a freshly rebuilt 855 that includes Risse Genesis front and rear and a modified Rapid Descents Long Travel Kit.
Here is a look at the whole bike: (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v292/Mootsguy/Pflexside.jpg)
Some interesting components were used in the rebuild such as a Campy Chorus front derailleur, xtr rear, Paul Thumbies and some other neat little things. More pictures to follow.
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nice 8)
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:oHow cool does that look! Full marks!!
Chris
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Here is a couple of looks at the upgrades:
Campy Chorus Front D: (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v292/Mootsguy/chorus.jpg)
Mods to the Rapid Descents LTK: (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v292/Mootsguy/LTK.jpg)
I also will be replacing the missing sticker after a fresh red paint job. I rode it today and it is everything I thought it should be. I will be working on the long travel kit to see if I can drop some weight from it. Right now the bike weighs 29.8 pounds and is not using the lightest stuff. I believe with some work 25 pounds is not unreachable.
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:o :o :o
Fantastic indeed!!!!
Totally awesome in fact. Wish I had one now.
What did you mod on the LTK?
Terry
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What did you mod on the LTK?
Terry
Thanks, it still has some stickers and paint work to be done.
I machined all of the components of the kit (the grooves in both sides) and in so doing was able to remove 495 grams from the weight of the kit.
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Looks cool, but short of switching to air/air shocks and replacing all of the steel parts with titanium where strength is necessary and aluminum where it isn't, I don't see how you could hit 25lbs on that frame.
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I'm really interested in hearing how the LTK works with the Risse. I thought you needed like 500 - 600lbs on the rear when running the LTK to prevent excessive sag, but haven't ever been able to get my rear Risse above 280lbs. For my LTK setup I bought a 600lb spring, but haven't had a chance to give it a try yet.
There are a ton of opportunities to lose weight on these bikes...I seriously believe the 956LE is pushing 20 lbs at this point, if not lighter. And that's with the Magura HS33s on there, which definitely add weight compared to v-brakes. Some of my mods are:
- TI BB (White Industries: 150g)
- Cook Brothers RSR crank and Race Face Racerings (all alloy rings)...sadly the Coda Magic crank & BB setup I bought was only marginally lighter :-/
- all TI hardware (I know the issue with the rear pivot bolt...except for the lower rear fork bolts, because switching them caused some play...no idea why)
- Ti rear cassette (9-sp)
- alloy chainring bolts
- KMC X9SL hollow-pin chain (250g)
- XTR M95X series shifters and derailleurs (including carbon cage plate) (was running a Proshift rear for a while)
- lightweight saddle (not bad comfort wise)
- Hutchinson Python tites (folding - 550g each) with lightweight tubes
- not the lightest wheelset...those Nuke Proof-like Rival carbon hubs on eBay with new Mavic X719 rims and Wheelsmith DB spokes
- Scott LFX carbon bar (120g)
- no bar ends
- Ritchey foam grips
- Risses front and rear
- Thomson Elite post
- Kooka stem
- carbon front legs and rear swingarm
Waiting to go on: a brand new set of Altek levers for the Magura HS33 setup
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I'm really interested in hearing how the LTK works with the Risse. I thought you needed like 500 - 600lbs on the rear when running the LTK to prevent excessive sag, but haven't ever been able to get my rear Risse above 280lbs. For my LTK setup I bought a 600lb spring, but haven't had a chance to give it a try yet.
There are a ton of opportunities to lose weight on these bikes...I seriously believe the 956LE is pushing 20 lbs at this point, if not lighter. And that's with the Magura HS33s on there, which definitely add weight compared to v-brakes. Some of my mods are:
Waiting to go on: a brand new set of Altek levers for the Magura HS33 setup
So you are the guy that snagged those levers. I love Altek parts. ;D
Try Bolt-on skewers, they are only 66 grams.
Terry
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Looks cool, but short of switching to air/air shocks and replacing all of the steel parts with titanium where strength is necessary and aluminum where it isn't, I don't see how you could hit 25lbs on that frame.
The first things I will do to it are replace the wheelset with lighter stuff, replace the wire bead tires with tubeless and continue working on making the LTK lighter where possible. After that I will begin looking at replacing some of the individual components, just don't try and take my Paul Thimbies away though... ;D
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I'm really interested in hearing how the LTK works with the Risse. I thought you needed like 500 - 600lbs on the rear when running the LTK to prevent excessive sag, but haven't ever been able to get my rear Risse above 280lbs. For my LTK setup I bought a 600lb spring, but haven't had a chance to give it a try yet.
I contacted Risse about using their shock with the LTK and they set them up for me and assured me that there would be no real problems. They did increasing the damping in the rear to account for the increase leverage provided by the LTK.
Going out this afternoon for the first real test of the bike, I'll let you know how it works.
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Nice that Risse gave you the green light...come to think of it, maybe the issue is more with my pump than the shock.
Terry: yes, I snagged a set of Altek's, but it was the first set to show up, not the used set that appeared a few days later. They're really nice, but I'm struggling with the red clamp. I may send it away to be re-anodized clear/silver to better match the color scheme. That said, the yellow of the Magura levers goes nicely with the carbon leg tops so I don't know what I'll do. Maybe I should ride more and think about the way the bike looks less :-) Yes, already have Ti bolt-on skewers (ControlTech race skewers).
The machined out centers in the LTK looks awesome...matches the similar treatment of the fork's top link :-) Nice work!
- Doug :-)
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There are a ton of opportunities to lose weight on these bikes...I seriously believe the 956LE is pushing 20 lbs at this point, if not lighter. And that's with the Magura HS33s on there, which definitely add weight compared to v-brakes.
Well, that may be so, but the other side of the coin is that adding ultra-light parts to compensate for a relatively heavy frame sacrifices a lot of durability -- too much, some would say. After all the stuff I've done to my bike, I'd be willing to bet it actually weighs a little more than it did when I first got it.
Some may have noticed in my intro thread that I mentioned in-passing a collision with a moving car. I was riding behind a Pontiac Firebird on my trusty Pro-Flex back in 2000, shortly after arriving at college, and the Firebird suddenly swung left into a roadside parking space. My cyclometer said I was doing roughly 25mph at the time. I grabbed big fistfuls of both brakes, but I was so close and moving so fast that I still hit the front left fender hard enough for my front tire to put a 6-inch dent in the fender (removing some paint in the process) and launch me and the bike completely over the hood of the car. I landed face-first, naturally, and when I looked up I saw the bike cartwheeling through the air a couple of times before crashing to the ground.
The initial impact stretched the rear-facing portion of the lower headset race, twisted the Girvin Vector fork, and spalled the bearings in the front hub. The landing bent the rear wheel and spalled the bearings in the rear hub. One of my roommates was an EMT and hauled my ass to the ER because he was convinced I had a concussion -- something about one of my pupils being fully-dilated and unresponsive to light. (To date, the only ill effects I've suffered are a loose right knee that starts aching if I don't ride often enough, and some scars on my hands.) But all in all, the bike was in good-enough condition that I was able to get it back in working order using a $50 Topeak multi-tool. If I'd had superlight cranks, seatpost, and handlebar, a single-crown air fork, superlight wheels, etc. etc., I probably would've been rolled away from that accident with a pair of broken knees and who knows what else, because the bike would've collapsed on impact instead of holding together. Because my bike had strong heavy parts on it, I walked away, dabbing my face with a Kleenex that the driver so graciously provided me with before he walked inside with his girlfriend.
That little incident convinced my dad that I was not completely insane for spending a whole $537 on that bike. He understood then why it was worth the money.
Pro-Flex frames are heavy and outdated. Still good, solid bikes, but heavy and outdated nonetheless. No sense trying to make-believe they aren't.
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The Long Travel Kit looks cool, btw. I'd be interested to see an animation of how all the levers and pivots work.
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Well, glad to hear that you're OK!
The funny thing about these frames is that I think they're more relevant now than they have been maybe over the past 8 years because rear shock technology has come so far. Fox's innovations with reducing pedal bob and such make single pivot bikes more feasible now...I've seen some PF rigs with different forks that look like real contenders.
Re: bike fitment, it sounds like the only thing that impacted while you were still on the bike was the fork, and strong they are. Once you were in the air, though, none of the other stuff would have mattered re: injuries. Glad the bike didn't land on you, though!
Let us know how that ride goes, esp. re: whether you're able to have 10-20% sag on the rear with the air shock, and what the behavior is like on bumps. It might be enough to get me to pull the LTK off the wall and give it a try. :-)
- Doug :-)
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My point regarding the other parts is that the cranks, seatpost, handlebars, or front wheel could've each caved-in under the amount of force it took to send me and the bike flying into the air high enough for me to completely avoid touching the hood and for the bike to land a good 15 feet further down the road. The wheel and fork may have absorbed the force of impact, but the rest of the bike (and the contact points I was attached to) had to be strong enough to catapult me into the air with no warning. Carrying enough extra weight to get that kind of strength and durability is well worth the effort, especially when I think about where a busted seatpost could've ended up. That goes double for a bike that looks like it'll be seeing a fair amount of downhill action.
Are those LTKs still for sale? I doubt I'd ever get one, but it would be nice to think I could if I wanted to.
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You mean my LTKs, or from RDS? I'm holding onto mine for now...never really have installed them yet since snagging them from Brad (another list member).
- Doug :-)
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Oh, the long travel kits were made by Rapid Descent Scotland? Damn, there's a whole lineup of stuff that's going away now, isn't there?
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Just back from a shakedown ride and uncovered a few easily fixable things, I need a long higher stem and maybe some riser bars to slow the steering down a bit. Also discovered that access to the Risse shocks with the pump is pretty hard, but the good part is the shocks came directly from Risse and were so close to perfect I only fiddled with the pressures for testing.
The ride uncovered no problems with the LTK and Risse combination. However the trail I rode only used about 1/3 of the available travel. I will need to ride it some more to allow the shocks to break in and then we'll see how much travel I can actually get out of the LTK/Risse combination. That said, I have to say I love being back on an 855.
I have an 845 with an extra rear shock (in above average condition) and an excellent Vector II fork in case anyone might be interested.
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I have an 845 with an extra rear shock (in above average condition) and an excellent Vector II fork in case anyone might be interested.
Got any pics of your 845? And what is the top tube length?
Terry (down south of you)
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I have an 845 with an extra rear shock (in above average condition) and an excellent Vector II fork in case anyone might be interested.
Got any pics of your 845? And what is the top tube length?
Terry (down south of you)
Actually it is really an 854 not and 845 (that would be really old) and currently I do not have any pictures, but if rain stops later I will shoot some for you and take all the measurements.
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Got any pics of your 845? And what is the top tube length?
Terry (down south of you)
Terry, I was able to sneak out between rain showers and get a few pictures of the 854. Also the TT is 21.75 inches.
Here are the photos and I will be happy to take some of any particular areas of interest you wish.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v292/Mootsguy/854-1.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v292/Mootsguy/854-2.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v292/Mootsguy/854-3.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v292/Mootsguy/854-4.jpg)
As I mentioned I have extra rear shock with good elastomers and a Vector 2 fork that I would be willing to sell as well.
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Very Nice. A bit too small for me tho.
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Very Nice. A bit too small for me tho.
Yeah, that's one reason I do not ride it very much. The same thing with my 855, it's a medium and I really need a L to be completely comfortable.
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Got a question for the engineer types here, has anyone tried swapping the fork leg on the Grivin fork from side to side and if so what happens to the handling of the bike and the fork travel?
Curious since my 855 is a touch small for me and wondering if that might slow the steering a bit.
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Got a question for the engineer types here, has anyone tried swapping the fork leg on the Grivin fork from side to side and if so what happens to the handling of the bike and the fork travel?
Curious since my 855 is a touch small for me and wondering if that might slow the steering a bit.
That would be me, and yes it did dampen the twitchyness. What I found is that it increased the rake and lengthened the wheelbase. Kept it that way until I blew the noleen shock, then went with a MegaAir.
Give it a try.
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Terry comes through with the details once again...but before the work of reversing the legs, have you tried adjusting the rake using the top leg mount "axle"? It has eccentric ends, and turning the "axle" via the hole with a nail or something adjusts the rake. You'll need to loosen the M6 bolts on each end first, and when tightening them back up use the same nail in the hole to retain the selected adjustment.
If you've already done this, though, and it's still too fast then you could try reversing the legs.
Another option would be a longer stem...the more the control surfaces are forward of the fork the less squirrely the steering will be...of course you can only do that so much before you're splayed out like Thanksgiving turkey (like those old 150mm stems...what were they thinking??).
- Doug :-)
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Thank you gentlemen for the input.
DugB, I have one of those 150mm Specialized stems in Ti that I use on an AMP Research B4 since the bike is too small...it is quite humorous indeed.
I was planning on putting on a longer taller stem before anything like switching the fork legs. Thanks shovelon for the input as well.
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Head's up guys look what i found on ebay u.k
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ProFlex-856-Full-Suspension-Mountain-Bike-Frame_W0QQitemZ370345806958QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_sportsleisure_cycling_bikeparts_SR?hash=item563a548c6e
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And a Way Big frame, no less! :-)
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Did you spot the L.T.K ;D
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Oh yes ;-)
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Oh yes ;-)
If you don't buy it I will. Then I will sell the LTK back to you for several of your arms and legs --- :o
I only wish I had seen this one before I jumped on the one I have. But no matter, I am hot on the heels of an AMP B5 right now.
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I was hoping nobody had spotted that one - been after a 856 Way Big for a while :( Would sell on the LTK possibly if someone wanted it.
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Haha im not interested im only 5ft 7" be like riding a horse for me :)
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Orange, If you get it I may be interested in the LTK.
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ok :)
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I put a bid on this a few days ago. I was hoping none of you would notice this as im the highest bidder at the moment ;) Seems a shame to get into a bidding war between us guys.
Chris
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OK will step back if you're already in.
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did you win it then? It went for £41 - I was going to go quite a bit higher than that. Hope you got it!
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I was kind of curious myself as to whether or not Spoke had won it.
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Yes I won it although I feel a bit guilty now. I put a maximum bid of £51 on my first bid and then on reading that you guys were keen thought I would not increase my bid to avoid a bidding war. I didn't think nobody else would bid on it. :-[ I don't have access to a pc during the day so have only just checked. Thanks Orange your a gent! Karma coming your way..
Chris
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I was only after the frame (the LTK was just out of curiosity) - so if you decide you don't need the frame at some point I'd be interested :)
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No problem you'll be first the to know.
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No problem you'll be first the to know.
If it turns out you do not want the LTK I will take it as I would like another to see exactly how light I can get it without snapping something important.
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No prob I will bare that in mind, but I do intend to put this on the trails :)
Long travel Chris ;)
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No prob I will bare that in mind, but I do intend to put this on the trails :)
Long travel Chris ;)
;D ;D ;D Okay, but please do keep me in mind in case something happens and short travel Chris becomes the way to go... :D
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Glad to see someone on this list snagged it!
- Doug :-)
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Yes ;D Just waiting for it to arrive.
Chris
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An update on the LTK with the Risse Racing Genesis shock --- perfecto!
The bike has been out on three rides along our river trails and while there are no huge drops or severe rock gardens I have gotten a measured 3.5 inches of travel out of the rear suspension. Kudos to Risse Racing for an outstanding product.