K2 / Proflex Riders Group
General => Tech Forum => Topic started by: sammydog on October 01, 2009, 02:14:36 pm
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Hi guys.
I recently found a crack in my 955 which I am intending to have repaired, but I have found the front triangle from an 856 for sale (pic below). The bike is apparently a 20", does anyone know what this equates to in top tube and seat tube dimensions. What size rider do you think this would be good for?
Also, I've never seen a Proflex with the extended seat tube before, was this common?
(http://walkerswheels.com/ebaypics/frame/IMGP0244.jpg)
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My 856 was called a 19.5" when I got it. It measures the same as my large 857. Im 6'2" and and they fit me great. My sadle is quite high but I've always set up my bikes that way.
Chris
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this might be the fabled 856 'Way Big'. Not many around.
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seller has told me the following dimensions.
the seat tube measures 55cm center to top of seat tube collar and 47 cm center to center. the top tube is 59cm.or 60 cm theoretical
When I measure up my frame I get 51cm center of BB to top of seat tube, and a 58cm top tube. I was always under the impression my frames were 17", but the measurements don't seem to stack up to the 20" frame for sale.
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Looks like a late model production to me...first, it's a "World Cup Design" and not a "Factory Test" frame based on the sticker. Someone told me the latter bikes were earlier.
Also, none of my 856's (3 larges, 1 small) have the bottle cage mounts on the back of the seat tube, and your frame (which looks to be unused!) also has the reinforcement on the underside of the downtube right at the headtube joint...a nice feature.
Just curious, does it have the "Made in..." sticker on the bottom bracket shell?
Also looks like your rear pivot hole is drilled nice and center, not offset the way many of us have seen while implementing the sealed bearing pivot conversion. Interesting though that if the frame is a late model that it still has the pass-through in the seat tube for the rear canti brake cable stop...guess it wasn't so late in the '96 production that they were using the 857/957-series seat tubes, which don't have the pass-through from what I remember.
Very nice find!
- Doug :-)
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Yep! That's a "Way Big"
856's came in four sizes:
14" Small (recognized by upper shock bolt fixing being partially within the top tube)
16" Medium (top tube bend between seat tube and head tube)
18" Large (top tube bend directly in front of seat tube)
20" Way Big (top tube bend same as Large and tall seat tube)
The inch measurments above are "virtual" measurments i.e. the frame is equivalent to "traditional" frames of that size, so it's very difficult make an actual measurment that results in one of those sizes!
Here's a table with measurments in mm.
14" 16" 18" 20"
Top Tube Length 519.8 554.2 578.8 592.0
Head Tube Angle 71° 71° 71° 71°
Seat Tube Angle 75° 74° 74° 74°
Chainstay length 429 429 429 429
Stand Over height 685 762 762 762
Head Tube Length 100 120 120 120
Hope that helps!
P.s. I'm 5' 8" and my Medium XP-X is about right for me, but maybe I could wear a Large...........<GRIN>
Col.
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Hi Doug,
Is the word cup design and 'made in ...' sticker meaningfull ? Mine had both.
Do the frame numbers on these things tell anything useful ?
Cheers,
WD :)
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Hey!
I don't know that there's really a significance other than possibly indicating the age. Someone once told me that the "Factory Test" frames were made in the US, but I've never heard anything to corroborate that. Looking across the frames and forks I do have I see definite differences, especially in the thickness and quality of the welds...and especially on the fork legs. Other than that, though, I guess a frame is a frame is a frame.
- Doug :-)
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Ok, thanks for that :)
all the welds on mine look pretty good but the swing arm fabrication is particullary nice ... :)
I think the hardest area on these frames to get looking good is the straight welds on the seat gusset as they stare you in the face from virtualy every viewing angle !
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Yep! That's a "Way Big"
856's came in four sizes:
14" Small (recognized by upper shock bolt fixing being partially within the top tube)
16" Medium (top tube bend between seat tube and head tube)
18" Large (top tube bend directly in front of seat tube)
20" Way Big (top tube bend same as Large and tall seat tube)
The inch measurments above are "virtual" measurments i.e. the frame is equivalent to "traditional" frames of that size, so it's very difficult make an actual measurment that results in one of those sizes!
Here's a table with measurments in mm.
14" 16" 18" 20"
Top Tube Length 519.8 554.2 578.8 592.0
Head Tube Angle 71° 71° 71° 71°
Seat Tube Angle 75° 74° 74° 74°
Chainstay length 429 429 429 429
Stand Over height 685 762 762 762
Head Tube Length 100 120 120 120
Hope that helps!
P.s. I'm 5' 8" and my Medium XP-X is about right for me, but maybe I could wear a Large...........<GRIN>
Col.
That's a great post.
Interesting, from that, if the sizing i the same for 955/855 then I am riding around on Large frames based on the location of the top tube bend. I'm about the same size as you and have always sort of wished the frames were a little smaller.
I certainly wouldn't want my frame to be any bigger (would love to have a medium) so I think I will leave the frame on offer alone and let it go to another home.
The search for a replacement frame will continue. Or I should just bite the bullet and get both of my frames repaired.
Its on ebay in australia if anyone wants the link.
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I've decided to bid on this after all. Worst case I will run a shorter stem to make up for the longer top tube. I don't think saddle height will be an issue and the stand over height is the same.
If I win it and don't like the size, I will offer it up here.
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Ergh, are you all sure that the 20" 856 was the "Way Big"? I have 3 20" 856's (according to the size sticker on the seat tube) and none have the rear facing bottle cages or headtube/downtube gussett shown in the pic. Was the production of 20" frames really fewer in number than the others?
- Doug :-)
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Ergh, are you all sure that the 20" 856 was the "Way Big"? I have 3 20" 856's (according to the size sticker on the seat tube) and none have the rear facing bottle cages or headtube/downtube gussett shown in the pic. Was the production of 20" frames really fewer in number than the others?
- Doug :-)
Sure? Yes.
I don't think the rear facing bottle mounts is significant to size identification.
The downtube gusset is not dependant on size, it is a factory mod to the x56 frame to fix known instances of frame failures. It indicates that it is a later production frame.
No idea on production runs, but I haven't ever seen many on sale, Mediums and Larges are most common.
Seems logical as it's one extreme of the sizing range as is the Small, which is also slightly rarer, but not very desirable due to shock installation problems.
Col.
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Wow, interesting. I had only ever come across a 16" 856 (my wife's) and the 20" frames I use, so I guess I assumed she has a Small and me a Large. I had always assumed that a Way Big X56 might have the taller headtube present on the Way Big 4000 and 5000. You guys are always teaching me something :-)
- Doug
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Ergh, are you all sure that the 20" 856 was the "Way Big"? I have 3 20" 856's (according to the size sticker on the seat tube) and none have the rear facing bottle cages or headtube/downtube gussett shown in the pic. Was the production of 20" frames really fewer in number than the others?
- Doug :-)
The rear facing bottle mount lugs are just another development and show that the frame is one of the last ones made. That frame looks to be just about the same spec as the 1997 spec frames used for the 97 Beast GDT and the 657, these are later frames than the X series frames but as already pointed out they don't have the uninterrupted seat tube that only seemed to appear on the X series frames.
By the way I’m 5ft 11 and always found the medium frame to be quite roomy.
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The 857 has a long head tube as well in the Way Big. Interesting the 856 didn't - was this because of the Vectors' limited room for tall head tubes, whereas the Crosslinks had a tall version?
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It seems to me that over here (australia) we got late production runs of everything proflex. My 955 and 855 all came standard with the x56 rear strut. So it wouldn't surprise me that this one is a little different.
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Well, I wasn't successful in winning that frame, anyone here outbid me?
I think I fell short because I underestimated what it would go for, that and the wife was sitting next to me when I set the upper limit. You win some, you loose some.
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that and the wife was sitting next to me when I set the upper limit.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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that and the wife was sitting next to me when I set the upper limit.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
fnar fnar ;)
Chris
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that and the wife was sitting next to me when I set the upper limit.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
fnar fnar ;)
Chris
That's never gonna work is it! ::)
Lock the door and leave the little woman to do the ironing! ;)
Uh Oh! I better log off Quick, here comes the Missus! :o :o :o :o :o
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The rear facing bottle mount lugs are just another development and show that the frame is one of the last ones made. That frame looks to be just about the same spec as the 1997 spec frames used for the 97 Beast GDT and the 657, these are later frames than the X series frames but as already pointed out they don't have the uninterrupted seat tube that only seemed to appear on the X series frames.
By the way I’m 5ft 11 and always found the medium frame to be quite roomy.
Well, the plot thickens a little. I just picked up an 856 in medium (brand spanking new) and it has an uninterrupted seat tube (as in no canti brake hole in the tube).
Also seems interesting that the seat tube measurement doesn't change between the large and the medium. As least its the same on my Large 955 and medium 856. Only the top tube seems to be any different.
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The rear facing bottle mount lugs are just another development and show that the frame is one of the last ones made. That frame looks to be just about the same spec as the 1997 spec frames used for the 97 Beast GDT and the 657, these are later frames than the X series frames but as already pointed out they don't have the uninterrupted seat tube that only seemed to appear on the X series frames.
By the way I’m 5ft 11 and always found the medium frame to be quite roomy.
Well, the plot thickens a little. I just picked up an 856 in medium (brand spanking new) and it has an uninterrupted seat tube (as in no canti brake hole in the tube).
Also seems interesting that the seat tube measurement doesn't change between the large and the medium. As least its the same on my Large 955 and medium 856. Only the top tube seems to be any different.
Does it have the rear facing bottle mount lugs ?
If not, sounds like it's the same spec as the XP frames
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Its got rear facing lugs, I'll go take a photo.
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Here is a picture of the 856 I have just gotten my hands onto.
(http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k316/sammydogg/bike/856.jpg)
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Here is a picture of the 856 I have just gotten my hands onto.
([url]http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k316/sammydogg/bike/856.jpg[/url])
Cool Never seen one like that before !
what's the frame number ?