K2 / Proflex Riders Group
General => Tech Forum => Topic started by: jefbar on July 06, 2009, 07:16:32 pm
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Hi All,
Lots of great info here! I'm the new owner of a version 1 Vector 2 (MCU's + dedicated stem, looks to be a '95 from the links) that I'm going to retrofit to my '93 Cannondale M500. One of the previous owners changed out the MCU's to a spring (I believe it reads FastAce). In any case, it's not working as the spring doesn't engage the upper and lower mounts properly. I knew that going in with the intent to replace it with a shock.
From what I have been able to gather here and elsewhere, Risse and Noleen both make shocks that will fit this fork. It's a 188 mm strut. I ride primarily cross-country and I'm mainly looking to take the edge off the ride for my 40-year-old bones. I've looked, but haven't really seen a direct comparison between the two for a Girvin. My considerations are ride (of course), longevity, reliability, etc. I see weight specs for the Risse (50 g lighter than the strut/spring) but not the Noleen. It seems that the customer service for both has been spotty of late. Any way, I'd appreciate any tips.
Thanks!
Jeff
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Yes, I think you need special spring retainers. Callum at RDI makes these and may be able to help you out.
http://www.rapiddescentscotland.co.uk
If you go the Noleen or Risse direction, I would tip my hat towards Risse. The noleen shock may be just as heavy as what you have now, and I don't know if they were designed for the vector. I have tried both genesis shocks for crosslink and vector, and the vector works properly but there was too much stiction for the crosslink. You mileage may vary. ???
Risse has begun to respond again. With the move and the economy, I sure hope it works out for them.
I would try RDI first. Is your existing shock an ODS?
Terry
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Thanks for the reply - no my version is pre-ODS. I thought about ordering new elastomers from RDI, but I'm missing the separator disc. I think that leaves me out of luck. I spoke with Risse today and they can get me a shock by the end of next week. I think I'm going to give that a shot.
If anyone has any ideas about replacements for the separator discs, I'd like to know as I may still have to fall back to the elastomers if the Risse won't fit for some reason.
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Thanks for the reply - no my version is pre-ODS. I thought about ordering new elastomers from RDI, but I'm missing the separator disc. I think that leaves me out of luck. I spoke with Risse today and they can get me a shock by the end of next week. I think I'm going to give that a shot.
If anyone has any ideas about replacements for the separator discs, I'd like to know as I may still have to fall back to the elastomers if the Risse won't fit for some reason.
The Risse will fit. As far as separaters, I have thought about using some plastic sheet. Metal may score the shaft.
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Hey all,
Shov, I had the same issue with the front Genesis having a bit too much stiction...you sent yours back a few times from what I remember, right? I don't know if I'll do that given they they were a little incommunicado for a while, but I think you mentioned a way to change the oil...I was thinking I might try that if it's something that can be done at home with average (non-Risse specific) tools. Any chance you have some instructions you';d care to share?
After riding my Genesis a bit I find that it's loosening up, though I do with it were a bit more responsive. The Astro 5 I received back from Risse seems to be better. In general you can't beat the Risse in terms of fit for these bikes...no huge air can like Fox or other shocks, so they can be used on the front.
- Doug :-)
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Doug, the boys here instructed me how to do an oil change. I think also there was a PDF on how to change the oil on the Risse site. Or Josh had faxed me something that I surely lost by now.
Anyway you clamp the body of the shock at the mount. Release the air, and use a whopper crescent wrench to unscrew the seal retainer. The shaft will come out with the retainer. Unclamp the body, pour out the oil and reclamp. Fill the body to just overflowing, put lots of paper towels around the body to catch the deluge of oil that the shaft displaces, and screw the retainer back in.
I used the lightest oil I could find, and it was lite spindle oil that you would find at a tooling house. It is similar to water in viscosity. From my records it is about a 2 weight oil.
Terry
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Ah, thanks Terry! So my shocks are black, and I'm assuming you're talking about the silver ring with the milled flats, where the two halves meet. My only question - do you remember it being standard threads (left to loosen)? Just wanted to confirm...thanks!
- Doug :-)
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Ah, thanks Terry! So my shocks are black, and I'm assuming you're talking about the silver ring with the milled flats, where the two halves meet. My only question - do you remember it being standard threads (left to loosen)? Just wanted to confirm...thanks!
- Doug :-)
Yes, the silver part with the flats, and yes, standard (righty-tighty, lefty-loosy) threads. ;D
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Did see some aluminium elastomer seperaters on ebay u.k the other day...
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Yes, I did see those...but they're probably not much good unless you're running an elastomer set from Callum, just because elastomers at this point see to all have hardened or destabilized into a sticky yellow goo. Plus, I think Callum is only making elastomers for the X55 and earlier bikes, right, and not for X56 and later. Seems like the best option these days is to use ODS units you may already have (or find some secondhand) and use Callum's COR spring upgrade or go for a Risse.
- Doug :-)
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Thanks for the reply - no my version is pre-ODS. I thought about ordering new elastomers from RDI, but I'm missing the separator disc. I think that leaves me out of luck. I spoke with Risse today and they can get me a shock by the end of next week. I think I'm going to give that a shot.
If anyone has any ideas about replacements for the separator discs, I'd like to know as I may still have to fall back to the elastomers if the Risse won't fit for some reason.
Sorry doug was refering to jefbar's vector post.. :)
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I spoke with Risse today and they can get me a shock by the end of next week. I think I'm going to give that a shot.
Jefbar, any decision made yet on getting a Risse? Keep us posted as we are very interested if Kevin @ Risse comes through. ???
Terry
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Hey Guys - yes I've got the Risse on order. Kevin quoted the end of next week (July 17th or so) for delivery. I'll keep you all posted on how it goes!
I'm still toying with the idea of getting the old strut in shape as the back up. Anyone have the dimensions for the separator disc? I'm guessing the thickness and the stiffness of the material are the crucial bits.
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I used an old plastic water tank (header tank) for my old 862....used a hole cutter about 4mm wider than the elastomer...works for me!
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So basically it sounds like the separator disc just needs to keep the MCU's from rubbing against each other?
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So basically it sounds like the separator disc just needs to keep the MCU's from rubbing against each other?
Well, my guess is that the disc should not flex. If the softer mcu bells out, the harder one will start taking the shape of the softer. So the idea is that the softer one starts compressing first, then the harder. That makes it dual stage. Without the disc you have a single stage.
Do I make sense? ???
Terry
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Makes sense. I may go looking at the hardware store to see what I can come up with.
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Quick update (pics to come later). I received the Risse on Saturday (set up hard as a rock I might add). Rebuilt the Girvin on Sunday. Had the new headset along with the fork installed today! I'm stoked with the overall look and install. Got to do a few laps around my yard before the darkness and rain came. Will post pics once I get some decent light (forecast for rain/clouds the better part of the week). I've always thought that a Girvin fork would be the perfect match for my Cannondale. Hopefully it'll perform as good as it looks.
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OK the lighting is still not the greatest, but here's the results!
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y252/jefbar11/IMG_7443.jpg)
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y252/jefbar11/IMG_7444.jpg)
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I had it out for a ride today and I'm pleased. It does just what I needed it to - keep me from feeling beat up at the end of a ride. Thumbs up for the Risse and Girvin!
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excellent. here's another Cannondale with Vectors.
(http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/2411/killerv900.jpg)
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Wow, the Girvin on the F500 looks nice! I have one of those frames (no model number as it was a replacement frame) from back in '92 or something, and may consider the Girvin as an option...it currently has the stock Pepperoni fork and is set up as my child transporter :-)
How do you like the motion of the Risse? Do you notice a lot of stiction? I did at first, but it seems to be loosening up a bit, and I may end up changing the shock oil as per Shovelon's suggestion.
- Doug :-)
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That Killer-V with the Girvin, looks, well, Killer. ;D
Doug, the Risse does seem to have a little stiction, but it seems to mostly occur after it's been sitting for a few hours or more. If I hold the front brake and work the shock a little before the ride, it seems to loosen it a bit. So I can see where it will work itself out after awhile. I'm running it at about 112 psi right now and that seems to be a decent compromise between stiff/plush without much chance of it bottoming out. And I keep reminding myself how much more functional the Vector is over a Rock-Shox or Manitou of the same period.
I didn't have the aluminum pepperoni fork - it was the cro-mo version. Not bad, but I didn't gain much weight with the Vector/Risse. One of the local REI's did the headset/fork install ($35!). They did me right and were pretty curious about the fork and its set up. The Girvin will definitely fit the old 1" headsets. They needed to work a little to get the crown race seated fully, but it wasn't too difficult (in their words). The hardest part (again their words) was getting the riser bar into the stem.
The Easton is a little short for my tastes - anyone know another riser brand that fits in the earlier stems?