K2 / Proflex Riders Group
General => Tech Forum => Topic started by: rapiddescent on October 28, 2008, 09:53:17 am
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here in scotland - it is about 5pm and its nearly dark outside! so most of the folk I ride with continue to ride through the winter but with big light rigs. last year - the majority of riders where using high power halogen units from "Lumicycle" - however, this year quite a few of us (including me) have switched to LED units. Of course, in the summer, we were riding in bright daylight at 11pm ....
what night lights do you use?
- USE Maxx Enduro 3xLED unit
- TTT
I've got the new MaxxD on order - its 4xCREE LED with 960 lumens for that true alien encounter experience. It is a great unit because it has no wires and has an extremely pimpy flash mode.
The TTT is a Tesco Torch for a Tenner. This translates into a torch that a major UK supermarket where selling that was 10 GBP (about 20 dollars) that has a single very bright CREE LED unit and mountain bikers everywhere bought them and made them into helmet lamps!
callum
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I use a NiteRider TriNewt on the handlebars (around 485 lumens, 3 hr batt on high, 7 on low) and a homebrew helmet light using a 3 CREE LED MagLits replacement module (around $60 on eBay) which also pumps out 500 lumens, but if a bit more focused than I'd like.
I'd love to have one of the Hope Vision 2-LED stem mounted units, but worry that the Crosslink linkage might bump the bottom of the battery...plug, they're expensive for the battery life.
- Doug
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I have been riding in dark morning hours for over a month. I have been using Vista lights, the smaller ones, for several years. I mainly use the helmet mount(battery fits in camelbak), but occasionally I will use a handlebar mounted light (battery mounts to the side of the water bottle cage). I picked up a set when they were being closed out a few years ago and have added several more lights and batteries purchased on ebay. I have had the battery sticks rebuilt with newer higher capacity (milliamp hour) batteries, so I can now get 2-hours from one stick with a 10-watt bulb and 4-hours with a 5-watt bulb.
One in our riding group has an HID light that had been mostly trouble free, but it was expensive. I have had zero problems with mine so far. I will most likely move to LED lights when my vistas are all burned out and dead.
Thunderchild
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Which TTT did you buy Callum? a link to it if it's on-line would be good.
I bought a SMART halogen light a couple of years ago for my night rides down here in Northamptonshire and Bedfordshire.
It's got a single quite small headlight and is quite nifty because a single handlebar button controls on/off and 3 light intensities up to 20W, it runs off a 12v Ni-Cad bottle cage battery.
The light intensity was amazing when I got it, but it's soon been overtaken in technology, also, it's downside is that the battery is very heavy (~1Kg) and it takes 16hrs to recharge!
And just recently I got a Petzl Tikka XP LED headlight,
http://en.petzl.com/petzl/LampesProduits?Produit=555 (http://en.petzl.com/petzl/LampesProduits?Produit=555)
(http://en.petzl.com/images/Produits/Produit_Image_555.jpg)
The 3 x AAA batteries last for 120hrs, I haven't the faintest idea what LED it uses, but it produces a fantastic spot on only 35 Lumens main beam and has adjustable output and it fits easily onto the front of my helmet with a couple of cable ties.
I've been so amazed by how good that is, that I started doing some research on LED lights and have been very impressed by the Exposure range, but less impressed by the price! (~£280!!) LED technology is leaping ahead very quickly at the moment. Cree, Seoul, Luxeon and others are continually surpassing each other.
So.......Inspired by the Maxx Enduro,
(http://www.shinybikes.com/images/T/Enduro-MaXx_1.jpg)
I've just started building myself a triple Seoul P4 LED light:
(http://www.led-tech.de/images/products/resized/LT-980-1169543766.jpg)
It'll run at 1000mA and the LED's are classed as 3.5W each.
Light output should be 720 lumens and should easily outshine the 20Watts of my old Smart. It'll run off a 12V 1800mA Li-Ion battery that is really small and lightweight and should give me a couple of hours of run time (I'll include a dimmer control to conserve power and stop blinding people)
The parts cost about £70.
Headlight unit will be 50mm diameter by 65mm long and the battery is 100mm x 23mm x 60mm
I'm getting a real buzz from researching and planning this light, it's ages since I did an electronic project (I used to work in an electonics development lab) so I've become a complete anorak on the subject!
I'll post piccies as I go along.............
Col.
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i use a cygolite hid as a main light backed up with 2x300 lumen led torches on the bars and a 120 lumen led torch on my lid, my torches cost £14 each including p&p from hong kong and almost hold their own against a wilma that my mate uses. ive been looking for the ttt at my local store but have yet to find one.
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I use a Light&Motion Halogen on my helmet, and a Nightsun on my bars. I use the Nightsun on lowbeam during a climb, then on descent I light up the helmet and bars on highbeam. The barmount reveals shadowing for depth perception, while the helmetmount lights up terrain on cornering.
Went this way initially because I kept getting stranded with dead battery. >:(
Time to get them out. ;)
Terry
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My lights are as old as my bikes. I run a Niterider Digital headtrip halogen on my helmet that I've yanked the digital components out of and run a straight 15 watt output. I built two additional 4500mah battery packs that fit in a water bottle cage so I have three packs to make sure I don't run out of light. I also have a set of Schwinn Mod three halogens that are mounted to the handlebar and have another battery pack that straps to the top tube. Both systems are 6 volt. I usually only run both sets in certain sections of trail. i suppose I'll eventually have to switch when these finally die but I really don't ride fast enough to require landing lights in the woods.
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Hi
I’ve been commuting on with my lights for a month already :)
I’m not a retro grouch but the Niterider blowtorch HID I got in 2002 with a special deal for sending in my old, dead NR has been fantastic!
This autumn I had to replace a couple of cells in the battery pack because of corrosion. After all this time the seal was compromised and I think I must have put it away wet.
I’m very curious about these LED developments, but the French aren’t hot on night riding so I never get to see any to compare. They must be good because the HID offerings are getting scarce.
On my morning ride in, I drop 850 m in 15km with 7k off road. The HID allows me to ride just as fast as in summer (ground wetness permitting).
On the climb home, I actually prefer riding in the dark on the road sections; with my HID nobody, but really nobody, overtakes in the opposite direction on the “it’s only a bicycle” grounds (I smash at least two wing mirrors each summer because of this problem)
I’ve been flagged down by police on a cycle path, they wanted to fine me for riding a motorbike on the cycle, “but I haven’t got a motorbike officer!”.
About four hours burn time from the 4Ah Nimh 500g water bottle pack.
It’s really really paid for itself.
Been thinking about bodging a more powerful HID using the little retrofit quad bike units, but until the NR dies it’s not urgent.
Landing lights rule!
On the downside (yes there is one) I dropped the head unit while it was still hot while rushing into the office. New bulb = 100 dollars!!!
Ouch.
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Cateye 520 and a MaxxD ( I got it the other day, did not mean to, but it was just so much brighter than the other lights in the shop) so far really, really impressed, almost already justified itself in my own mind at least. The pattern is very even and just fades off to the edges so you don't get a sharp cut off, I think is somewhere between my cars' dipped and main beam. For years only had basic lights so never really gone out much after dark, this is the first one I can go at normall pace off road and not feel I am squinting into the shadows. Even after a couple of rides ( bits on/off road) I have noticed other road users cannot miss you, most of the time do not need to run it on maximum, so should last ages. Around town the strobe is fun, you can get an entire streets worth of signs flashing back at you, 100m+.
For going properly off road I am looking to attach my Alpkit Gamma as a helmet light to see around corners, it is almost as bright as the MaxxD on Low but with a narrower beam and is only about £12.
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;) I know what you mean by having an entire streetscape of sign posts flashing back at you! I get that with my Maxx Enduro (my MaxxD arrives this week!). I've been out in some truly foul weather lately with it and it is brilliant.
by the way - tonight, if you are out night riding then look out for the tauroid meteors - there should be one every 5 minutes or so.
In the UK it is Guy Faulks night where we celebrate the burning down of the UK Parliment (in Scotland) and the celebration of *not* burning down Parliment (in England) :o. So there are typically fireworks and burning effigies and that sort of thing. I think I'll ride out of town and view it all from our local hills (about 1000ft climb).
callum
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Callum,
I thought up there, you'd be building a "wicker man" ?
It's not safe to go to Scotland......... I've seen the films! <GRIN>
Col.
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Callum,
I thought up there, you'd be building a "wicker man" ?
It's not safe to go to Scotland......... I've seen the films! <GRIN>
Col.
I`ve seen Britt Eckland count me in ;D ;D
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Has anyone tried these, they were given a great review in singletrack magazine last month, they give an average width beam, but having two lamps you can separate the beams to give yourself a nice bright corridoor to ride through. The kit is good and it looks like you can buy the bits seprately. The only downer was the bar mount was bit involved.
http://www.ayup.com.au/lighting.php
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Has anyone tried these, they were given a great review in singletrack magazine last month, they give an average width beam, but having two lamps you can separate the beams to give yourself a nice bright corridoor to ride through. The kit is good and it looks like you can buy the bits seprately. The only downer was the bar mount was bit involved.
[url]http://www.ayup.com.au/lighting.php[/url]
They look great!
I'm in the process of making my own set of LED lights, see above, and the main difficulty is the hardware, i.e. the body to mount the LED/lens/heatsink into and the handlebar mount.
Most of the cost is in the manufacture labour, the parts are pretty cheap.
The LED's that AYUP use (Cree Q5's) are fantastic (and R2's are on their way! Even more Lumens!)
and Li-Po batteries, with 3/6 Hr run times wow!
I would have used Cree's but they didn't suit the triple lens arrangement that I want and so I have used Seoul P4 U-Bin LEDs which are equivalent to Q5's.
I'm planning to put the Li-Ion battery into a small neoprene case and strap it under the handlebar stem, just as these have been done. It'll only give me about 2hrs run time, but that's fine for me and just means that I charge it for every ride.
These AYUP lights look really well made and well thought out, I'm almost tempted!
We're in the middle of a LED lighting revolution. Given the run times and Lumen output of LED's, HID's and Halogens are dead!
I reckon Hong Kong/China manufactured ones will hit the market soon and then the prices will tumble!
Col.
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Callum,
I'm not sure you will find the MaxxD much brighter than your Enduro, in the literature that came with it there are some output charts, the MaxxD appears to have a shorter throw but is much wider. Having said that on the couple of rides I have used mine so far I think it has been useful to get an extra fraction of a seconds' warning of all the suicidel rabbits that insist on running in front of me.
I did look at making a light, down by my feet are the remains of my last effort about ten years ago ( 20W halogen and 12v drill batteries), but came to the conclusion to get the same performance I would be looking at similer money and unless you know what you are doing with electronics you cannot get the same sophistication. The AyUps look really good value and have seen them get really good reviews but I can see where the extra has gone into the MaxxD, the four LED lens is cast as a single bit, the power level indicator (really useful the led touch I have been using just stops working with no warning), the different modes, the thermal regulation ( which I found out does work when I was trying to run the battery flat indoors).
I did find something at work which put the cost slightly in perspective, I have a project that is going to use some strip lighting and have had to do a fair bit of research into various leds performance. A basic led light is about £10/m, the led unit we are probably going to use is £100/m and I need about 45m.
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Alistair.
This is a bit of the blurb from Ayup;
With any night riding the most important thing is light. Solid reliable light! Most riders we spoke to have experienced some kind of problems with their lights. During some of our after dark testing escapades we have helped fellow riders with failed lights. Some of these lights were the expensive HID and LED lights currently on the market. Circuitry, vibration, switch, leads, have all played a part in their lights demise. This did come as a surprise to us as we did not expect these expensive lights to have any such problems. So what we have done for now is to change the format of how we control the light and now it has been made even more reliable. We’ve taken out the switch ‘smarts’ and we now offer a lighting system with the purest possible light beam and extremely long burn times. For example, our current 3 hr hour burn battery will run at full power for 3 hours. It will then slowly dim to that of a bright torch by 7 – 8 hours. You can still ride with this light output after the initial 3 hours or at least get you home if something happened deep in the forest or bush.
I take your point of it not being much fun to have your lights go off in the middle of something fancy at night in the woods.
Cheers, Tel.
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ive got to be honest here and say that you cant justify the price paid for bike lights, i stupidly paid nearly £200 for a light which i thought was going to be brilliant (pun) only to find that 2 £14 led torches are just as good. if you can get a CREE M-CEE from deal extreme.com theyre supposed to be the absolute biz and for less than £50 with batteries.
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........................Circuitry, vibration, switch, leads, have all played a part in their lights demise. .................. We’ve taken out the switch ‘smarts’ ........................
.................I take your point of it not being much fun to have your lights go off in the middle of something fancy at night in the woods.
Hmmmmmmmm, yes, so do I..........that's one of the reason's I've been looking at lights and why I have had the time to do so........................My "Smart" lights decided to start turning themselves off when subjected to fairly heavy vibration, I then had to press the multi-function button for 2 secs for them to turn back on again, so not a great experience in pitch dark at high speed on a bumpy track...........cut to scene 2.............About 5 weeks ago, above scenario, lights went off down a notoriously hoof printed bridleway at a fair speed, I pressed the on button, got distracted and hit a rut, bike whipped out from under me and I sensibly avoided putting my hand out and tried to roll as I landed, instead I slammed my right shoulder into the ground and was then writhing in agony while my mates laughed! (until they realised I wasn't mucking about!) I finally rode home with just one arm on the handlebars and spent the next six days trying to convince myself it was getting better, I finally gave in and went to A&E when the Ibuprofen and Brandy ran out............I had dislocated my clavicle! Once a nice little Filipino Physio lady had popped it back in for me I was a lot better and so now I just have to build the strength and movement back up again.
So, the lights I'm building will be fairly simple on the switching front, but I am using a couple of switched resistor positions to allow dimming of the Buckpuck driver current.
Hopefully It'll be pretty bombproof!
Col.
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............I had dislocated my clavicle! Once a nice little Filipino Physio lady had popped it back in for me I was a lot better and so now I just have to build the strength and movement back up again.
Col.
OMG :o :o
Did something similar to my left shoulder. OUCH!
Get well soon.
Terry
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My wife is Filippino (well, she's more a hard-as-nails New Yorker more than anything) and I can attest to the healing powers they possess ;-) Sorry to hear about the body damage, though. My worst biking injury came in the form of a herniated leg muscle...my leg got caught between my front tire and downtube just as I went off a curb, only to have my front shock compress with my leg stuck in between. Ever since there's been a hole in the leg muscle, through which the soft under layer can pop through when I flex. But alas, I was not able too blame it on malfunctioning lights (more like malfunctioning brains).
- Doug :-)
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ive got a dislocated clavicle, i got it in 1999 playing football and its still out, i just managed to avoid the screws through the bone and wired wrapped round it operation by talking the surgeon out of it and promising to try and be careful ;D i still get pain from it now especially when climbing in the saddle when its cold.
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I run a Cateye Stadium HId on the bars. Its a bit of a beast with a larg secondary ballast pack and a water bottle battery. 2 1/2 hr - 3hr run times, with similar re-charge. Also have the TTT AA torch on my lid.
Really impressed for the money. You will not find a better light for at least 5 times the price if not more. Ditched the alkalines and fitted 2700mah AA NIMH , gives approx 2 hours use. Latest trick seems to be 2 on your lid , with the larger C cell unit on the bars , with a 6.6amp 3.6V LiPO battery. Basically remove the batteries and shorten the case to keep the clicky switch, then drill a small hole and re-wire the terminals. A super light set for the price of a tank of fuel (ish) , although ther is some faff with soldering.
The MTE p7 ssc is getting good reveiws, good price from dealextreame, although the 90 min runtime is a limiting factoe, and they are never 900 lUmen , more like half that.
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...my leg got caught between my front tire and downtube just as I went off a curb, only to have my front shock compress with my leg stuck in between...
Wow DugB...I hate to ask, but how did you got twisted up so that your leg was between the front tire and downtube?
My worst accident was pretty minor compared to you guys, but only because of dumb luck...about 5 yrs ago I riding at dusk one evening; coming down a moderately steep hill in a place called Frick Park (in Pittsburgh) following a deer trail when the trail crossed a brief level spot with a leaf covered muddy depression and a large tree root on the far side before the slope resumed. My front wheel hit the mud and sunk a little, then rolled through to the root where it stopped and turned into something that resembled a pretzel. When I went over the bars I broke one of the most basic rules and put my right hand out to save my face from root, ground, and the local flora. Luckily, my hand landed in the mud and slid; my helmet absorbed the blow from the root in the front and my saddle, which whacked me in the back of the head before I could get my feet free...I ended up sore, but the destroyed wheel and seriously damaged pride were the worst of my problems.
Anyway, if I'd been using a light I probably could have save myself a lot of grief...my 754 was never the same after that and now rests in what I think I'm going to start calling my Proflex graveyard... :-[
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...............in what I think I'm going to start calling my Proflex graveyard... :-[
.......please say.............."PRO~FLEX Museum".............it just sounds better..........<GRIN>
Wow, Jeff ! I got off easy then!
Mine was a "type 1, AC joint dislocation" so not too bad and getting better every day (touch head)
Went out for a quick spin on the XP-X yesterday on the road to buy a 2.1mm DC connector from Maplins which I think is the last part I need to commence construction of my Maxx Enduro clone light.
Col.
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...my leg got caught between my front tire and downtube just as I went off a curb, only to have my front shock compress with my leg stuck in between...
Wow DugB...I hate to ask, but how did you got twisted up so that your leg was between the front tire and downtube?
I'd like to know the same thing! ;-)
Ah, I've seen many a wipeout in Frick & Schenley. There's that one parking lot down at the end nearest to the slag dumps (where US Steel used to pile the leftover slag from the iron smelting process...for everyone else on this list this heap of slag is enormous...must cover the area of 10 or 20 football fields and possibly 200 feet high...you feel like you're on a black Mars when you're back there...it's literally like 120 years of slag from the US's largest steel producing city, but I digress...)...the lot with the steep hill that leads down to it, with the guardrail all around it. A friend came down that hill and lost control, running straight into the guardrail, doing an endo only to find that his fork was bent backwards like 20 degrees.
I wasn't on this ride, but another friend who worked at Thomson for years was riding in Frick, fell and punctured his lung on a stick. One of the last times I was riding through there I came across my high school Physics teacher and his wofe out for a stroll. :-)
Someone pulled a gun on me and a different friend down in the valley under the Forbes Ave. bridge...be careful down there!
If I ever head back to the 'burgh with my bike I'll have to drop you a line. I'd love to ride some of those trails again, but wouldn't want to do 'em alone.
- Doug :-)
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I've been using the Ay-Ups now for about a year.
For the price I haven't used anything that goes close to them. Haven't had a single problem at this point and the batteries are going strong. Actually the battery size is another big plus. Having the battery on the helmet or under your stem really keeps things nice and neat.
I got the standard kit (two 3 hout batteries, one 6 hour batteries, a wide beam light for the bars and narrow for my head). I've got the older batteries without the on/off switch, but the battery life is as claimed so I am not so worried about needing to turn off while riding.
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Well I recently took a risk in buying two fenix torches and have to say I was pleasently suprised!
I purchased two fenix L1D Q5 LED torches just 9.7 cm long and one LED but will blast out 120 lumens each all powered by 1 AA Battery each.
I was sceptical at first and was all ready to send them straight back but they are a hell of a light for the price £35.95 each got two mounts for £16 a total of £91 now considering how much ive seen some LED light go for these are great id say the give the single HOPE lights a run for thier money.
only draw back ive found is the amount of flood they give off its very narrow but with the two toghether either one on the bar and one on my helmet or both on bar they work great would definatly recommend them as a cheap alternative to the 200+ lights out there
(http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd144/jtolputt/l1d.jpg)
(http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd144/jtolputt/l1d_hand.jpg)
JaseT
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Hi,
I've got an old Electron Halogen system overvolted with a battery I got from batteryspace.com and two 15W halogens overvolted from 12V to 14.4V. Burn time seems to be pretty good as I haven't run the battery flat and I've been out for more than two hours before.
I'm planning on getting an exposure joystick for Xmas to stop thinking about various LED upgrades to the Electrons! Think the exposure as a head torch should be enough to cope with the Scottish winter.
Stu.
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colin>
welcome to the broken clavical club! I did mine on the Elephant & Castle roundabout in central London, UK a few years ago. Just like you I rode on with one hand and when i got to work couldn't even lift a bit of paper in my left hand so the folks at work sent me to the hospital for an xray... The bad news is that it will take about 4 month to fix it up and you won't be able to lie in bed a certain way (4 years on and I still don't feel comfy on my left side!) You'll also want to stab and kill people when they bump into you in the street.
but the good news is that you'll have a battle scar - a little hump on your shoulder blade for ever more - the chicks dig it. I think Mike Hammer has one as well!
callum
rds
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;D Not that anyone would ever poach illicit trail at night, but I have recently been using a Vetta Nano-Lux with the red filter to run along on my highly legal local river trails at night.
Surprisingly, even as the only light source this little beauty is completely adequate for trail riding. (http://www.vetta.com/productpic/lights/lux/nano_lux_big.jpg)
It uses a 3W solid state emitter and 4 AA batteries in a slim battery case to produce 350 lux on the high setting and 190 on the low. Run time is around 18 hours on the high setting and 33 on the low. The low setting is quite acceptable for commuting purposes. Also 4 spare AA batteries are very easy to carry in case of problems.
Nice light for around $150 US.
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TTT & homebrew halogen FTW! ;D
Finally found a tesco with some in stock & they're great, but not quite as bright as a 50W halogen running at 14.4v instead of 12v...
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just got my USE Exposure MaxxD,
(http://www.proflex.demon.co.uk/photos/855heads/exposureMaxxVsMaxxD1.jpg)
I've stuck my mobile phone in to show the size of these units - there's no wires - which is a big plus when you're crashing through trails like I do!
very very bright.
regards
callum
rds
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Hi Callum,
Just fired up my "Enduro copy" light last night, and I think I've still got arc-eye 'cos I was leaning over it as I connected the croc-clips! {720 Lumens!}
I've got a whopper of a heatsink on it, but it still got just a little too hot to touch after running for a good while, this was at 1A and stationary, in use I am relying on the flow of air to keep it cooler and I do have two step down options of running it at 250mA and 570mA to conserve battery life and produce less heat...........but enough of my ramblings...........
........my question is how hot does the case of the Enduro get in use at full power and stationary?
On a technical scale of.......Cold, Hand Warm, Toasty, and Ouch!
Have you ever opened it up? I'd love to see the internals.
Thanks
Col.
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I've just sold the enduro - I hand it over to one of my fellow Stirling Bike Club members tomorrow so I won't take it to bits! However, I frequently used it as a torch so it never got hot at all. Just a little warm. Nothing like my lumis that would cause steam when water hit them!
It is pretty cold here - I'm due to go out on mon or tuesday night for a ride and it will be about -4'C (at altitude) with a little windchill on top. Can't wait to do some more ice riding. It means the hills round here in Scotland .are totally rideable because they are rock hard.
callum
rds
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Guess which riders where using LEDs and which were using Halogen? This was our club ride up the ice and snow covered Dumyat hill in Stirling, Scotland - it's about 850ft high one of the best rides of my life as it happens. the pic was taken from my mobile phone...
(http://www.proflex.demon.co.uk/photos/855heads/20081202Dumyat.jpg)