K2 / Proflex Riders Group
General => Tech Forum => Topic started by: kiwi on July 06, 2006, 09:11:06 pm
-
Who is your pick for de tour this year.When I fisrt heard the news I said aaahhhh Basso for sure now,but that was before i realised he was out too...
So fellas Mayo,Evans,Landis,Hincapie.
-
Not to sound biased toward Americans or anything (which I certainly am), but I think there are three VERY strong possibilities in Landis, Hincapie, and Leipheimer.
-
Hi chaps, I wonder if Discovery held back Paulo Savodelli`s form a bit this year, because appart from George Hincapie( ultimate domestic ) They had nobody for the big prize.
Of course Mrs Tel thinks I know nothing, and rates Cadel Evans and Floyd Landis but looks very happy when Tom Boonen wins anything ( men in tight shorts thing)
Cheers, Tel and Mrs Tel.
-
I have no idea who to pick. Thought it was somewhat humorous that the best of those going against Lance got nabbed by a drug test .:o Has been a bit surpising to me that Discovery has stayed in first in the team standings so far. Hincapie isn't really any further out than Lance would get just to keep some of the pressure away for a while.
-
Mayo for the win.
-
Mayo for the win.
I wouldn't mind seeing that. It's always a possibility...
-
ive got to be honest being a roadie at heart that i dont a clue who is going to win this tour, in the last 7 years its been easy but this year!!!!!! landis? hincapie? honchar? evans?? ive got to admit my own favorite rider is now allowed to race again after his ban. ok i admit it im a david millar fan but i believe in a 2nd chance for everyone, and he has served his time. by the way i was a paid up member of itsmillartime. com before the bust!! so come on dave!!!
-
ive always thought mayo was on something, far too up and down!
-
Menchov? (winner of last years Vuelta)
-
What's the deal with the Americans?
The Lemond and Armstrong phenomenons absolutely lay beyond the realm of reasonable probabilities. No statistician in the world would ever believe TWO Yanks could ever be multiple winners.
And now we've got 3 Americans among the top contenders. That's just not possible.
So... is it a matter of building entire careers and teams around a single race?
Could it be that it only takes a few dozen professional riders (from a population of 350 million) to produce a world dominating rider. No way.
The whole appearance to a non-roadie is the TdF is a very long and painful Kabuki theater. Has the whole thing been a set-up to get Americans to pay attention to bike racing? If so, it's kind of working.
If that's the case, how come we SUCK at soccer? (Football) Surely we've got millions more kids playing soccer than racing bikes! (Even my daughters play soccer.) So what's the deal?
Wish I could understand...
-
I think the key to become good in a sport, is that you need a strong competition. And it is easier for a single rider to go overseas and ride in strong races than is is for 11 football players to do the same and play in strong competitions.
-
i still find it hard to believe that the usa are above england in the fifa world rankings when everyone knows they are nowhere near as good. im surprised they havent got their own world series for football like they do for baseball just so they can call themselves world champions.
-
never trust the FIFA! especially not their rankings: every time we (netherlands) lost a match, we moved up a place on the rankings.
-
are we talking soccer or TDF??? lol!
I enjoyed watching the WC. It will never get big in the US because...well....there are no commercial breaks. Seems the US sports world relies on hype, advertising and conspicuous consumption.
TDF? I liked watching Robbie Mcewen(sp) sprint like a madman at the finish, yet the mountain stages are where the chamois meets the road. I like Floyd, because he's good and tough.
Wonder where T~Mobile would be with Jan....I think the team had four out of the top five in GC yesterday.
-
well mayo is out the back,I give up.
Its the most interesting tour ever!
I wonder how Dessel and Mercado will go on stage 11
-
Can anyone explain why the Discovery guys can't deal with the mountains this year? Last year they rode in front from bottom to the top. Is it just the thah Armstrong isn't there anymore?
-
what about Karpets?
it's a very interesting TDF. last year it was all about where is Lance vs the other GC riders.
-
naaah its curtains for carpets!
-
the disco boys lack a real leader, hincapie, popo, and savo cant match lance in terms of leadership, they should come out and say `right its xxx we are behind` not wait and see who is the strongest. imo.
-
I honestly think that half the teams fall into that category.....discovery (and others) now need to decide who they are going to support.Classic yesterday,do lotto support Cadel Evans or McEwen?.I think the answer is evident......
On stage 12 we kiwis had our proudest moment,I saw a NZ supporters flag,and Phill Liggest mentioned Julian Dean,the only kiwi in the tour...domestique for Credit Agricole.
-
It's no wonder that CSC and T-mobile have problems to find a new leader at this moment. For most of the other teams there is no excuse: simply not professional enough? It seems that the absence of Armstrong set the professionalism of cycling back a few decades. But is sure makes following the Tour a lot more fun.
I was never a big Armstrong fan, but that needs time. Just now I already see that it was for the biggest part his accomplishment that his team ruled the Tour for so long. A few more years and I fully can admire the things he did.
Jeroen.
-
yes the manager of team discovery said the same thing Jeroen.
-
Yes!! Mountainbiker power! Rasmussen did a wonderful job! Is it all over for Landis? Was the 30 minute escape of Pereiro the biggest mistake of all the others? Wat a spectacle!
-
Yes!! Mountainbiker power! Rasmussen did a wonderful job! Is it all over for Landis? Was the 30 minute escape of Pereiro the biggest mistake of all the others? Wat a spectacle!
I'd have to agree with that strategy so far....I am just amazed at their stamina. My son thinks I could keep up with these guys for one stage only..yeah right.
I might be able to do it if I could rest during commercial breaks on OLN and sit in the sag car as it sped along.....finish that is...after dark has fallen.
MOst of the "sprinters" are so far back or are even DNF's now. The real men do ride the mountains.
-
what a day.i was day dreaming during the day today that landis would be all fired up and come out and win the stage,but not blow them all away,he is only 30 seconds off the yellow jersey,1st to 11th back to third in three stages!.I think he can do it
-
if anyone ever deserves to win the tdf then its landis, i cant recall a ride like it, unbelieveable! i dont think there are enough superlatives to describe what he did 18hrs after running out of gas. incredible!!
-
if anyone ever deserves to win the tdf then its landis, i cant recall a ride like it, unbelieveable! i dont think there are enough superlatives to describe what he did 18hrs after running out of gas. incredible!!
Rassmussens ride was pretty incredible!
-
Another topsy turvy stage.Landis got time back on Pierra(sp) and Sastre,so now leads,Kloden had an incredible ride,Sastre had a bad un,so kloden is now third....Will it change again??
-
What a Tour! An other American to win... Ok, he really deserves it, but I feel the biggest looser (I don't mean this in a negative way) is Klöden, or actually T-Mobile. First it was a tactical mistake of all teams to let Pereiro win half an hour. But after that it was T-Mobiles mistake to let Landis win this much time on Klöden in the race to Morzine (BTW: an very good place for a mountainbike holiday!! contact me if you want a very nice address to stay: 100% mountainbike compatible, nice but simple apartments, very good food etc!). At the time they started their try to win time back on Landis, the gap between Landis and Klöden didn't grow or get smaller. So they should have started their try earlier in the stage. They thought Landis was bluffing and wouldn't be able to keep his advantage on the Joux Plane. How wrong that was is now totally clear.
Maybe a good plan for every following year: take the biggest favourites out of the race the day before starting it? You get a surprising Tour every year.
Greetings, Jeroen.
-
agreed Rasmussens ride was an incredible ride but, he was never a gc contender so was allowed a lot more leeway than Landis, it was a huge mistake by the other teams not to chase earlier but it shouldnt detract from what was an awesome ride.
-
Yeah... good for Floyd. Wouldn't care if he was from Tibet. I couldn't help but think this is guy who just likes to ride his bike - like a kid. (Remember when you were 12 and your bike was your "freedom machine?") That's Floyd.
Call me old fashioned, but I like him all the more 'cause he's not sleeping with the podium girls at every stop. Poor old Lance couldn't keep his chamois zipped up.
-
Call me old fashioned, but I like him all the more 'cause he's not sleeping with the podium girls at every stop. Poor old Lance couldn't keep his chamois zipped up.
where did that come from???
the podium girls are hot, though, you have to admit that.
-
Floyd's a great role model - simple, consistent, dedicated to the sport and his family.
Lance actually boasted about being a great father and husband on the cover of his book! That goes beyond ironic. It's sick.
Yeah the podium chi's are way hot, but Lance showed us superhuman discipline. So I guess he just didn't care. ...maybe those girls are made of French kryptonite?
-
...and now... is FLOYD A DRUGGIE?
Hmm... can you take testosterone for one stage?
Whether he took it or not, he had to have a lot of it to do what he did.
Please Floyd, don't let me down!!!
-
One of our commentators over here said he would know that by winning the stage he would be tested so it would have been suicide to take the drug.
Also given he had won a couple of stages before (I think) he would have been tested then and was clean, so this commentator thought it must be because he was so fired up (you could see when he crossed the line) that he could have created his own high level of testosterone naturally during the ride...
-
well i cant believe it, ive just been reading in cyclingweekly about the hero that saved the tour and now this!i really hope he can prove that he has naturally high testosterone levels otherwise its another nail in the coffin for pro cycling. just hope that lance was always clean as im a major fan!
-
Hi chaps, dont it make you sick, these storys come out some true some not, but every time the real dopers and their quacks steal a little of our heros. Ive read on this subject that someone hopes Lance Armstrong is innocent, please dont let the low life in the world rob you of your hero believe and trust.
Its so difficult to watch any of the grand tours and not to keep thinking is he or is`nt he so the filth within our sport even manage to steal some of that too.
Dont listen to the excuse of they only do it because the stages are too long, get everyone off their bike make the race 100 meters and you end up with Ben Johnson.
Any how Mrs Tel wants some soap from this box I`m preaching from the top of so I`ve got to get down now.
Cheers. Tel
-
I can not imagine he would have been that stupid! At least I don't hope so. Let's wait untill we know the outcome of the second test before we judge Landis.
It's not a good sign that all the winners of the latest biggest tournements are suspended after the race finished. But it looks like a good sign that even the biggest names aren't spared. I hope the fight against unfair competition keeps on going!
And never forget: cycling is such a loved sport over the world (al least over here) that doping schandals can't bring it down.
Jeroen.
-
sheesh it was always the podium girls for the young rider that i thought were hot...wonder why that is.
As others have mentioned surely you wouldnt risk it on the tour when you are one of the leaders.... surely!
I hope i am right,it will really cause an uproar otherwise
-
look closely and one of the podium girls had a beard. i tell you, the temptation of taking testorerone is too much...
I can't believe that he did this. It just brings the sport into more disrepute. The UCI can't keep control of these tour riders. I think they should just allow drugs and recumbrants on one of the legs for the hell of it. Would make it very exciting.
callum
lsd, err. rds.
-
Landis says he fully expects the second sample to be just like the first??? that would mean he'd be stripped of his TDF victory.
Somebody from CSI please help sort this out! lol
-
I read today that Landis won the TDF with a bad hip. I cant find any info on this. Is it true???
Terry
(Brings back memories of my teens, rode the Encino Velodrome in the 60's, rode the tour de Santa Monicas with my Pop. Even had the leather helmet that may still be hanging in my garage.)
-
I read today that Landis won the TDF with a bad hip. I cant find any info on this. Is it true???
Yep. He has avascular necrosis of the femoral head. In other words, following a crash a couple of years ago in which he broke his hip, the vascular supply to the ball of his hip joint (which is a true ball-and-socket type joint) was compromised. Eventually, the bone began to die, and now it is likely completely "dead" and slowly deteriorating. (Live bone is one of only two tissues in the body that actually regenerate like new). Floyd is planning on having his hip replaced with an artificial joint prosthesis sometime this fall.
I sure hope this doping thing turns out to be garbage. That particular lab has always been quick to make accusations and extremely unethical about leaking details prior to official findings. I guess they can't help it - they're French...
-
HI guys, haven't posted in a while but have been reading.
I heard today that the NY Times ran a story that claimed that a urine sample from Landis showed that he had a certain level of synthetic testosterone in his system. If this is true, surely one of the final nails in the coffin.
Of course, the Times is ALWAYS right, right? yeah sure.
hope this is wrong too.
DG Dennis enclose the following in [] square brackets smiley=Groucho.gif
[smiley=Groucho.gif]
-
yes on the news today they were saying the same thing,ie synthetic testosterone...I still just cant beleive that Floyd would have done it...it doesnt make any sense,its not like its an instant boost,is it?
-
Kiwi,
From what I've heard/read, extra testosterone takes awhile (days or weeks) to build up enough to provide a boost.
also, thanks for the heads up on the smiley thing.
[smiley=Groucho.gif]
-
Kiwi,
From what I've heard/read, extra testosterone takes awhile (days or weeks) to build up enough to provide a boost.
[smiley=Groucho.gif]
Ok, no expert here but from what I've heard/read is that testosterone helps you recover faster. Considering Landis miracle recovery you start to wonder.
On the other hand. Did any body catch the episode of Myth Busters about the poppy seeds? The myth is suppose to be that consuming foods with poppy seeds will make you fail a drug test. It turns out the test on myth busters showed that consuming poppy seed will test positive for drugs.
After watching that episode you start to wonder about drug testing.
I even saw another show that showed that it is possible for one person to have more than one set of DNA. That throws a curve into DNA testing.
Isn't cable TV great. I learn more from watch TV than I ever learned in school:)
-
i have learnt more on the interweb in 15 minutes than i have over the last 10years by other means!
-
So: the contra expertise prooved to be positive too. Goodbye Landis and I hope you never come back. In general: if you have to win by cheating, you are the biggest looser around. Sorry for all the fans of The Tour, cycling, Landis, etc.
Jeroen.
-
Wow, what a black eye for his team. All that work for what?
Terry
-
All this makes me think that drugs is rife in cycling as why would he do it unless he though the likelihood of getting caught was minimal... if he thought the chance was small it must be because loads of his co-competitors are doing it and getting away with it all the time... depressing.
-
I think he's innocent. Unfortunately, it may be something he'll never be able to prove. Maybe somebody "spiked" his meds without his knowledge. There's really no way to know what happened unless somebody admits to something. If nobody actually did anything wrong, I don't think we'll ever know.
I feel bad for Floyd. Mennonites (in my experience) tend to be very honest people (even if he's not strictly following the religion, at least he was raised that way). Also, he's a close friend (and roommate) of Dave Zabriskie, who I think is a very standup guy. Of course, if he DID do it, I would feel bad for Oscar P (assuming HE didn't cheat). But my gut feeling is that Floyd didn't do anything wrong.
-
@Matno: "I would feel bad for Oscar P (assuming HE didn't cheat)" Lets stick to the facts: Landis has been caught: HE did something wrong, Oscar P has not been caught: he didn't do something wrong. And I think it's a little naive to keep thinking Landis is innocent. He is at least more 'guilty' as Ullrich and Basso, who even haven't been caught yet.
BTW: have there been riders expelled after the stage Landis did win because of the maximum allowed time difference?
Jeroen.
-
I may be completely naive here,and at the risk of repeating myself.....With the lead up to the tour,esp the lead up to THIS tour and the fact that he was tested on previous stages and his background......it doesnt make any sense......on the other hand his performance on stage 16 was unbeileivable.
I cant help but think this is going to have major repercusions
-
well, it makes some sense. After stage 15 Landis looked down and out: place 11 overall. So there was some kind of 'nothing-to-loose-situation'. Testosteron doesn't make you go any faster, but it makes the recovery easier. And Landis didn't look for something to go any faster, being the best rider in this tour at that moment that just had a very bad day, but he had to find his normal form.
Jeroen.
-
He is at least more 'guilty' as Ullrich and Basso, who even haven't been caught yet.
I haven't heard of either Ullrich or Basso protesting their innocence like Landis has. I ride with a German who is a huge Ullrich fan, and even he hasn't tried to defend him. Besides, Jan has always been ragged on for not training hard enough in the off season. (Which was part of the reason why I like him). NOBODY could say that about Landis.
I think the thing that bothers me the most about this whole scenario (not just Landis, but Ullrich, Basso, Hamilton, and a lot of others) is that there is such a huge presumption of guilt before any actual proof. (Although Ullrich's response to the whole thing was pretty convincing by itself). The evidence against Hamilton was really weak - especially in light of a documented history of elevated blood counts - but he may be banned for life for something he didn't do.
Personally, I think the people who look the most ridiculous in this are the lab people. There was actually a quote from the head of the testing laboratory who said that there was absolutely no question that the results were accurate. Only an idiot would say something like that. Having worked in medical research for the past 5 years, I've learned that there's no such thing as a foolproof test. Also, we're not talking about a normal person here. We're talking about a freak of nature who is bound to have abnormal conditions in his body from time to time. (Let's face it, anyone who can win the Tour is a freak - especially if they don't cheat).
-
you really are a freak of nature if you have synthetic testosteron in your body! :)
-
True, but as a doctor, I have to say that the way they differentiate natural from synthetic testosterone is not as foolproof as some people say it is. Just as the testosterone/epitestosterone ratio (which was used to determine that his testosterone was elevated), both molecules tested to show "synthetic" or natural testosterone are naturally occurring. It's the ratio that they're complaining about. Still, I think the only way to prove this one way or the other will be a confession from SOMEONE about SOMETHING. Time will tell.
Also, I think there are too many people out there who can't stand the thought of another American win and would go to great lengths to discredit ANY American. I know most people are reasonable, but here in America, there are a lot of people who don't understand just how fanatical fans in other countries can be. (To go along with Landis' claims that somebody with an agenda is out to get him...)
On another note, how about Leipheimer's stage win in Germany? Jens Voigt ain't looking half bad either with the overall lead. I like Jens and actually hope he wins, but I wouldn't feel bad about Levi winning either. That was a sweet stage in heavy rain. Not for the riders, but cool to watch at least! I like races that prove toughness in more ways than one. (Originally, the Tour de France was designed to be so hard that there would be one very clear winner, and maybe even just one finisher! Of course, back then, you had to do ALL of your own bike repairs. Now THAT would be a race. I remember a story about one guy who actually broke his frame, found a shop and welded it himself, then - if I recall correctly - won the race).
-
They also used to set off at 2 in the morning and ride all day completing silly milages back in the 20's....
-
@ Matno: you mean Eugène Christophe ('Cri-Cri') in the Tour of 1919! Wore the yellow jersey, in the tour the jersey was introduced. Made it through the Pyreneeën (sorry for the Dutch spelling, don't know the english right now) and Alps in yellow and looked like winning the Tour. But the stage from Metz to Duinkerken (with only two stages left) he fell and broke his forks. He welded the thing himself indeed, but it cost him 2 hours and also the Tour... Great story anyway!
And there are so many more great stories! In the beginning riders only had two gears: one sprocket at each side of the rear wheel, so just turn your wheel to shift. Some sort of twist shifting avant la lettre. And ofcourse Wim van Est, the first Dutch in the jellow jersey. In 1951 he fell (wearing yellow) 70 meters from the Col d'Aubisque into a ravine, but nearly wasn't injured at all. He had to be lifted up with a chain of cycling tyres and persued to go to the hospital instead of going on!
Jeroen.
-
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/othersports/2003181941_weblandis07.html
FWIW
-
"I was tested eight times at the Tour de France, four times before that stage and three times after, including three blood tests.
"Only one came back positive. Nobody in their right mind would take testosterone just once. It doesn't work that way."
My argument .....
[smiley=nod.gif]