K2 / Proflex Riders Group
General => Tech Forum => Topic started by: proflex252 on April 13, 2006, 10:47:17 am
-
Hi folks!
Was biking in the Alps last week and scrapped my Noleen NR2 shock on my 98 5000.
As I run out of seals for it I'm thinking about a new shock.
Any suggestions?
Just thinking about inserting a very lightweight airshock with 190mm i2i and using a adaptor to get the original 209mm i2i.
Or inserting a 215mm i2i with a bit more stroke.
My NR2 has 52mm stroke so the new one should be equal or comparable.
And it should have a pedal platform (SPV or something)
Please help me!
CU
Matti
-
Hy Matti,
I did that exact same thing. 190 mm shock. Manitou Swinger. Worked like a charm. You can really feel the weight difference.
I have stolen that shock to lighten up my 957, and have the coil Swinger 215mm x 63.5mm stroke back on it. Since I have experienced both, I am looking for a 215mm x 63.5 airshock.
Terry
-
I've got a Manitou Swinger 3-way Air with exactly 209mm eye to eye length. Stroke is 50.8mm. It's from a Trek Liquid.
Supposedly, prior to 2005, they had a 63.5mm stroke length, but mine is clearly a 2004 and it has the "newer" shorter stroke length (which is just fine for me).
The ride is amazing. With SPV turned up, it's pretty stiff, yet still soaks up the big bumps very well. Not as plush as my Stratos Helix Pro. (which by the way is for sale... details to follow).
Matt
-
And can you tell me whats the stroke of the 190mm swinger, please?
I think there are more shocks available on ebay with 190 than with 215 i2i.
But I don't want to have less than 50 mm stroke on the shock as I'm feeling very comfortable with the 52mm stroke of my NR2
CU
Matti
-
The stroke on my 190mm Swinger 3way is 52 mm. Be aware that the air pressure ramps up very quickly with the 3 way. I would hold out for a 4 way with the piggyback chamber, if I had to do it again.
Terry
-
Just saw a ebay auction which said the 190 has 38mm stroke. ?? Really?
Are there various strokes for one shock length?
And what's the weight of a 190 i2i swinger?
I want to come below 12 kg (26.3lbs) with two carbon brake boosters, bottle cage, bell, tacho and mud guards. Now it has 12.2kg (26.7lbs) with all that stuff on it.
-
Are there various strokes for one shock length?
Yes. Most shock makers do this.
And what's the weight of a 190 i2i swinger?
WAY lighter than anything Noleen ever made! Sorry for the smart alec reply. I don't actually remember, although I'm fairly certain it's in the same range listed on Manitou's website, which is 275g for a 3-Way. They also have a newer SPV shock which is supposed to be for "marathon" and XC riding that weighs only 200g. It's supposed to be similar to their "R-Seven" fork line and comes with SPV or Lockout. Called the S-Type.
-
My rear NR2 weights 410g. This is due to its Titanium Spring. Saves 150g to a steal spring.
So I think I will not save that much to reach my goal to have a less than 12 kg bike with 5" travel on the front and the rear.
But it helps.
Just saw a 5th element air shock with a specialized logo on it.
What'cha think about that stuff?
And the marathon one you were talking about, ... is it the Manitou Radium? And how is it?
-
It's the "S-type". Check it out on Manitou's website:
http://www.answerproducts.com
I know nothing about it, other than that they usually list their stuff in order from high end to low end, and it's listed higher than the swinger and weighs less... Hmmmm...
-
I made adapters to put Fox Floats (front and rear) for my 5500. I could have my machinist make another one. I don't know how much for just the rear. I just got my bikes back from AUS so I don't have many decent pics yet. I posted the whole business about a year ago, so check the archives for the details. But basically I am running i2i 3mm longer in the back than stock to run the recommended 13mm of sag for the Float over the 10mm for the Noleens. I think I ended up with .75" more travel with a shorter shock (the adapter makes up the difference in length). The Floats have been replaced ny the RS3s in the Fox line-up I believe. Oh, and my bikes down to 24.25 lbs or 11kg. There isn't much that is going to be lighter than an NR-2 with Ti springs, so for wieght air shocks are really your only option. But OMG do those Fox Floats make a difference! Transformed my bike!
Later,
Rich
-
I will of course need a adapter for a shorter shock.
And I think I remember some pics of those adapters here in the forum.
And as I have a lathe in my garage and a milling machine at work it will be no prob for me to build one out of aircraft aluminum. Tend to use 3.6064.t6 aluminum with brass inserts for the bearing.
But first I need to have the new shock.
And hey! 11kg is something I will never reach with my 5000. And I have done so much up to now to get the weight down. U know I got to compensate my own weight gain by cutting down the bikes weight.
But anyway it is way lighter than my buddies bikes.
-
I've got a Manitou Swinger 3-way Air with exactly 209mm eye to eye length. Stroke is 50.8mm. It's from a Trek Liquid.
Supposedly, prior to 2005, they had a 63.5mm stroke length, but mine is clearly a 2004 and it has the "newer" shorter stroke length (which is just fine for me).
The ride is amazing. With SPV turned up, it's pretty stiff, yet still soaks up the big bumps very well. Not as plush as my Stratos Helix Pro. (which by the way is for sale... details to follow).
Matt
I tried this on my Oz and couldn't get it to work ??? what did you do for the fitting?
Angus
[smiley=beer.gif]
-
I will of course need a adapter for a shorter shock.
And I think I remember some pics of those adapters here in the forum.
And as I have a lathe in my garage and a milling machine at work it will be no prob for me to build one out of aircraft aluminum. Tend to use 3.6064.t6 aluminum with brass inserts for the bearing.
But first I need to have the new shock.
And hey! 11kg is something I will never reach with my 5000. And I have done so much up to now to get the weight down. U know I got to compensate my own weight gain by cutting down the bikes weight.
But anyway it is way lighter than my buddies bikes.
Well, if you want I can always measure up what I have as an adapter for my fox Float and send the drawing to you. But it could take some time. You can always adapt my design to other shocks as well. Let me know. I have pics in my gallery as well, but I've been meaning to get better ones. I just need someone with a better camera than I have.
Rich
-
I tried this on my Oz and couldn't get it to work ??? what did you do for the fitting?
I had to grind a minimal amount off of each side of the swingarm mounts. No big deal at all. There are a couple of other pics in my gallery as well, if you want to see more...
(http://idriders.com/proflex/galleries/matno/IMGP2477.JPG)
-
Well, if you want I can always measure up what I have as an adapter for my fox Float and send the drawing to you.
Hi Jaz!
Yep! Any help offered is welcome! Thank you.
Just bought a new 2004 swinger 190 i2i on ebay for 120 Euros with warranty.
Hope it will do me a good job.
And now I need to have an adapter.
I have something in mind how to solve it, but I'd appreciate further input!
Matti
-
No prob man! Just give me some time. I don't have a lot of spare time these days. And I have to find someone with a better camera than I have. And measure the thing. ;)
Later,
Jaz
-
Just installed the new manitou swinger shock
Have a look!
(http://idriders.com/proflex/galleries/proflex252/CIMG1495.JPG)
-
Very nice looking bike,
that seatpost intriques me though,
is it supposed to be forward like that ???
nice bike and spec from what I can see.
Simon.
-
Unfortunately the travel decreased by swoping the NR2 with the swinger.
The NR2 has 52mm travel and the swinger has only 44 (while Manitou says it is 50!!)
So the travel is no some 100mm instead of 115mm.
F...!
I think I will have to optimize the swingarm/shock ratio.
-
Any suggestions?
-
I would like to see a close up of your Swinger - particularly the part that inserts into your frame. There is NO way my Swinger would fit that way on my 5000 frame (see my gallery - it is "upside down" compared to yours). I needed at least another 10-15mm of clearance for the shock body with the frame plates. Yours must have a different "neck" (as Proflex calls that part).
As for the seatpost, clearly it was broken in that picture. Nobody in their right mind would have a saddle pointed at the ground like that! :o (Don't mind me - I'm a member of the self-appointed seat angle Polizei...)
(If I recall correctly, that's a homemade carbon seatpost - or at least partly homemade, right?)
And for the record...the stroke length on my Swinger is EXACTLY 2" (50.8mm). According to Trek, it should be 2.5" (63.5mm).
-
Unfortunately the travel decreased by swoping the NR2 with the swinger.
The NR2 has 52mm travel and the swinger has only 44 (while Manitou says it is 50!!)
So the travel is no some 100mm instead of 115mm.
F...!
I think I will have to optimize the swingarm/shock ratio.
Tricky one this,
you either have to move the bottom (s/arm)
mounting forward or the top shock mounting
down,
but this will raise the b/b height.
I'd try it as it is first you may find its slightly shorter
travel a but far superior shock performance may
totally out weigh this.
Simon.
-
Matno: Well! I must be "left minded"! ;D
There is no broken pic. My seat is nose down like that. I always go like this. And this for 5 hours tours. No prob for me.
Otherwise, if I ride a seat in normal position I have the certain feeling that I'm holding another mans wiener in my hands if going to the toilet.
So this IS the right seat position for me. Believe me. It's the only way.
And it is not dependent on carbon. I have the same prob with any other seat as well.
And yes! U remember right. It is a homemade seat/post combi.
I will take a close up pic of the shocks upper mount.
Hope this will help you.
Simon: I will try this setup on the next Marathon in 2 weeks. If it feels good I will have to get used to less travel on the rear.
Otherwise I will have to do some more brain powering to change the geometry without rising the BB.
Fortunately I have a CATIA system. So I am able to do some pc based simulation.
-
Here the promised pic of the adapter:
(http://idriders.com/proflex/galleries/proflex252/CIMG1493closeup.JPG)
As it is just a attempt it is made of non corrosive steel. So way too heavy. I will let it machined in aluminum if it is ok tht way.
I laithed a steel round material to the rigth length (30.5mm) and drilled a 6mm drill-hole in it.
I bent a 2mm thick non corro sheet metal round the laithed part and welded it together.
A drill-hole through it so it can take up the shocks upper part which is turned by 90 degree.
-
Ah. Thanks. Now I get it. The adaptor is nice. I forgot your Swinger had the shorter eye to eye length. I wish I could mount mine that way - I think it looks weird the way I have it.
I know you're a lover of all things carbon, but have you ever considered a softer, more "ergonomic" saddle? I can't imagine that having your saddle angled down wouldn't WORK your shoulders big time. Then again, I've never experienced the peculiar sensation that you mention, which I'm sure would change my mind about a few things!
-
I have tried various saddles but anytime the same result.
And as I shaped the carbon saddle exactly for my ass this really hard one is the best saddle I have ever ridden.
As I was saying I do tours with five hours and I have absolutely no prob with the hardness of the saddle nor with my shoulders. Maybe I got iron shoulders 8)
Believe me! Holding another ones wiener in your hand is a dramatic feeling which changes your being!