K2 / Proflex Riders Group
General => Tech Forum => Topic started by: martin on November 20, 2005, 08:42:34 am
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hi
ive a 97 beast which hasnt been ridden in a few years, how can i tell if the shock needs a service, is there a simple way? and also what weight spring was fitted to a way big frame?
what other shocks fit apart from noleen and risse if any and have i a choice of springs and where can i get them in the uk?(is it just cvi?)
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Hello Martin!
New Boy on the forum? I see you're a guest but you've already posted a couple of useful points!
point 1 - is the shock knackered? take it off of the bike, take off the spring and compress the shock, if you've got resistance on compression and return then it’s OK, if not then it’s knackered but maybe repairable.
Probably only CVI in the UK.
http://www.cvi.co.uk/shocktherapy/index.html
Very expensive and probably cheaper to get a new/second hand shock……..
Point 2 – standard weight spring of a ’97 Way-Big Beast?
As I understand it, a ’97 Beast is an 856 type frame ? i.e. pivot behind the Bottom Bracket.
The Way Big should be a 350 lb/in spring on a GDT shock or maybe an ODS.
This should suit riders of 190-230lb weight.
The spring should be labelled “NB2-350x” where x is the colour.
Col.
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Hi Colin
Thanks for the info
I think its the 856 frame the last beast before they were badged K2 and moved the shock
http://www.bikepro.com/directions/a97_proflex/beast.html
the shock is a noleen nr2 but i cant see any numbers on the spring think they have worn off, but its a black spring if that helps?
The shock seems to compress and return but slowly on the frame so will take it off and see how it feels - as long as it still has some resistance when i push the shaft into the shock is it ok, and should it spring back or return slowly??
The threads and shaft are in good condition.
What shocks will fit apart from noleen and risse (cvi didnt recommend the risse air shock as im about 16 1/2 stone so it would need alot of air pressure and they thought the noleen would be more reliable with a lard arse on it)
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Martin,
The bike in your link is an 857 type framed Beast. i.e. pivot in front of the BB. Also known in '98 as 1000, 2000, 3000's.
The standard spring on that should still be a 350lb/in suitable for riders of 190 -230lb, unfortunately, 16 1/2 stone equals 231lb! plus any kit you're wearing!
Colour doesn't matter it's just for show.
Higher rated springs should easily be available, but ride it and see if you want to go stiffer. 400lb/in should be the maximum needed.
Take the shock off, it's the only way to be sure, take the spring off as well to make sure it's not cracked or bent.
The shock should compress slowly with resistance and then might return slowly of it's own accord or you may need to pull it open against resistance.
If the shock compresses easily and doesn't return and can very easily be returned with little or no resistance then it's knackered.
I agree about the air spring no-no for your weight.......<smile>
The issue of what shock will fit is a problem because I think I'm right in saying that the 857 frame has a end collet cone fixing on the strut arms and not many shocks have this fitting, but you could always "bodge" something, look at the galleries on this forum.
Particularly this 856 of JuanPablo's:
(http://idriders.com/proflex/files/adapter856.JPG)
Intresting that he appears to have put a 650lb/in spring on it...I would consider this to be way over sprung.
You're basically looking to match the shock length of the NR-2 which I believe is 209mm or 8 1/4 " or go very slightly longer maybe.
for the price of a second hand shock you could get the NR-2 serviced and then it would be a pretty good shock, there are better ones but they'll all need adaption.
Col.
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hi colin
i will try and test the shock today, chubby has removed the chubbys and stripped and greased them up, and am going to attempt to fit the magura asgards.... need a pipe cutter for starters.
Think if the noleen shock is knackered i will send it to cvi for a service and spring upgrade, the adapted shock looks good but could be too much of a headache.
So what your saying is if i take a dump and ride naked i may get away with the existing spring ;D
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Don't forget to shave your body Martin. Good post I read it all the way through.
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You're basically looking to match the shock length of the NR-2 which I believe is 209mm or 8 1/4 " or go very slightly longer maybe.
Col.
That would be very bad to do, unless you wanted to run a longer travel fork.
The 8 1/4 i2i length is for the Evo/carbon bikes.
The length of the rear Noleen is 8.0" from the eye to the (small) END of the cone. By substituting with a shock that's 8 1/4" i2i then you'll need a fork with 8" of travel to get the frame geometry "correct".
If you make an adaptor to run a traditional double-eyelet shock then you'll need to be careful with your measurements. It's not terribly difficult if you're mechanicall inclined and have a good idea/sketch to work with.
The simplicity of the Noleen is very nice, but depending on who you are the versatility of the newer crop of shocks can be divine.
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im told im simple [smiley=laughing.gif]
think will stick with standard fitment rather than trying to adapt something
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Hey Martin,
Come on and join up.
So where do you herald from?
Noleen shock service rebuild is what I would do at this point. Or CVI if you are in the UK. It will give you a fresh shock to use as a base point for your riding style and any other upgrades you may want to do in the future.
Terry
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Hi Terry
I was looking at how to join last night briefly but wasnt sure if just clicked on members and filled out the details or not.
At the moment i live in Leeds but am due to move back up to the Lake District in January, near Windermere.
Loads of decent off road in that area.
Im buying some holiday cottages in the Kentmere area, which is also near Garburn Pass two well known routes which are often in bike mags.
I was thinking of putting a plug on here offering a discount to members if coming out of the main holiday / school holiday season. Something like this [smiley=laughing.gif]
www.lake-district-cottages.com
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in reply to the other question am going to take the shock apart test the resistance and if ok maybe just go for the heavier spring from cvi, if i ride it with the current spring am i at risk of damaging the shock?
Decided to let a bike shop fit the magura asgard forks as would have had to buy a pipe cutter which i am unlikely to use again - anyway they are fitting the forks for free as bought some spacers, fsa pig headset, and got some gripshift esp 9.0s off ebay for about £5.50 incl postage which they are going to fit with new sealed cables.
Only problem with the shifters is one of them is missing the little cover which when removed shows the cable, may try and bodge something with some thin plastic or tape and keep a look out on ebay for another set, the best had esp 700 which doesnt have the cover.
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i think im now a member??
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ive moved up the ladder from guest to novice its a proud day for me [smiley=nod.gif]
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Hey Novice,
Nice show!
Barn cottages eh? How cool for you. Are you buying the cottages outright or is it like a timeshare? Anyway, I bet you are excited as all getout.
Take care and good luck on you venture,
Terry
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Hey Martin we may be interested in a cottage next year,obviously if the price is right ;) always fancied
visiting the lake district,bonus taking the bikes.
Ohh and welcome as a new member [smiley=nod.gif]
Simon.
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im buying well mortgaging the cottages, selling house in Leeds and parents are selling one of their holiday cottages in Windermere to help finance it. Eventually will be converting a barn next to the cottages to live in, but that will be at least 12 months or more down the line, in the meantime will be living in one of the 3 bedroomed cottages and renting the other 3.
Simon if you avoid the school holiday weeks and were to book a week i would take 20% off the normal advertised price, or if you fancy riding in possible snow in January 3 nights for £99 (total not per person) in the two bedroomed cottage.
Will be hard work and a good few years before its paid off but it will be our pension.
Have run a holiday cottage agency for about 7 years where i take commission on bookings taken for the owners, but it was a far better feeling last week when i took our first booking for Christmas.
Due to exchange contracts about 14th December and current owners have allowed us to market them early.
There will be bike storage and there a some good rides from the doorstep
http://www.tomowen.dsl.pipex.com/biking/england/kentmere.htm
You can see Kentmere from the cottages, some great downhills
Theres also Ullswater, Claiffe Heights, Skiddaw, Helvellyn if brave and fit and loads more spoilt for choice, and some decent rides within an hour or so drive around North Yorks, and Kielder forest.
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hi martin, i think i may have what your looking for on my xpx. i have a nr4 rear shock with a NB2-450 coil spring on it that is too stiff for me. im looking for a lighter shock as i weigh 14 stone. if you have the original spring and its too soft for you how about a swap? i live in durham so im not a million miles from you, might have to pop over sometime and have a ride out over the lakes.
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Doh! My mistake! (Thanks Frankd3000)
Correct! An ODS shock is 196mm (7 3/4") Long which I thought I had measured to the fat end of the cone, i.e. the distance between the strut and the seat post pivot centre.
Sorry, I was thinking an NR2 on a 856 type frame would be the same length as an NR2 (8 1/4" ) on a 4000 frame, obviously not!
Given the choice, I would actually go with a slightly longer shock and then have increased sag to compensate the ride angles. my XP-X sits at the top end of it's travel and "tops" out too much even though the spring should be the right weight for me.
Wow, Jeffhop, you've got an NR-4 on an XP-X? is it a cone ended one? I guess some x57's came with these? and so it was available as an AM part?
Martin, those cottages look great!
Fri-Mon Lets in January, How much?
What's the maximum number of people they will take if I rent them all?
Is there a pub at the bottom of the road on the A591 in Ings and does it do food?
Thanks
Col.
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Hi Jeff
Im guessing the 450lb should fit a 1997 noleen nr2 shock?
If so assuming the shock is ok and just needs a heavier spring (can check on Friday when get the bike back) i would be happy to swop and can always do it by post if you like.
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Hi Colin
In January we plan to put a new kitchen in Fellview and we will be living in Kentmere therefore only the two, two bedroomed cottages next to each other would be available, if renting both they would sleep upto 8 (cant over occupy as voids liability insurance and dining table and lounge only having seating for 4), and a 3 night break in January either the weekend of 20th or 27th would be £99 per cottage. Includes bedding just towels to bring. Electric for night storage heating included, rest by £1 meter which is things like tv, lighting, cooker etc. No smoking but pooches are aloud.
The pub at Ings which i think is the watermill inn does food, also pubs and takeaways in Windermere which is about 1 mile, and in Staveley which is a couple of miles.
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here is the spring and shock in situ on my spare xpx as you can see its a cone fitting. martin posting will be fine as long as the spring is ok for you.
(http://idriders.com/proflex/galleries/jeffhop/PICT0120.JPG)
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Hi Ian
Either the spring is shorter or the shock is longer or there is alot of preload,think ive only about 2 or 3 threads turned down on mine.
I will have a look at my shock over the next couple of days and let you know.
Are all the springs the same across the proflex range and then the difference is between the shocks ie nr2 nr4 and the length of the pushrod determines the amount of travel? Think the beast has 3 1/2 inches at the rear and 4 at the front as standard.
Cant for the life of me remember what the xpx looked like spec wise etc, i know its the same frame design as the beast. Where i used to work a few lads had proflex's and one of them was in the proflex downhill team (this is about 8 years ago)
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Martin,
An XP-X is an 856 frame (i.e pivot behind the BB)
They were a limited edition in the UK in '97 (probably to use up the old '86 frames) but they were a good spec. Supposedly with structural changes that eliminated alleged frame failures on early 856's. Mine has Magura 33's on it with XT mainly and some LX, Gripshift, and ODS shocks with either MCU's or Coils as original.
I'll look into your coil/shock questions and make some measurements........
But initially from K2 supplied info, there are 2" compression springs (NB2) used on NR1's NR2's and NR4's. And 1.75" compression springs (NB175) , which confusingly are also used on NR4's and the NR5 shocks.......
Theoretically if you use the the 175 on a 2" compression shock, the coils might "bind" before full compression of the shock is achieved, but I don't think this is actually a valid concern in the real world.
i.e.
1997
957, 857, 757, Animal, Beast, Beast GDT, 657 (all sizes)
Spring Shock Compatibility
NB2-(weight) NR1-PRO97, NR2-PRO97, NR4-PRO97
Spring length varies quite a bit, I've got springs from 80 to 95 mm long and they all seem to work OK, an NR4 appears to take up to a 110mm spring, whilst an NR5 will only take up to a 91mm, front NR1's will take up to 95mm.
I have a theory (unproven) that longer springs are more "plush" and so I always go for the longest spring that will fit.
Blimey! well that's my findings and opinions, maybe someone else knows better?
<GRIN>
Col
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all i wanted was a spring [smiley=laughing.gif]
Complicated stuff these bikes and you still have to bloody peddle them!
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I've got boxes of springs up here in Stirling, Scotland - all shapes and sizes. The COR spring might even fit.
Whats the internal diameter of the spring and roughy what length range?
I haven't measured the lbs/inch for our COR springs - anyone know the best way of doing this?
callum
rds
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Hi Callum
I will measure up and get back to you.
If the length, diameter, number of coil turns and weight is correct can you stick any spring on any shock?
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only if you have the right batteries...
:-)
yes, should work. All bike springs have bevelled top loops to make them sit flat and are springy enough to work in a shock. I've got some old test springs in a box that I don't mind giving away for postage/packing because they're just using up space on the shelf now. most of the old noleen springs have lost their markings so I calc hardness using vernier calipers and bit of guesswork.
I didn't realise springs could be so complex until I made the COR springs. Still to make some for the subaru impreza wrx though!
callum
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callum do you have any springs that would suit me? seeing as the spring ive got on my xpx is a 450lb and i only get about 30mm travel on it i thought i was a porker but even i cant shift it lol i always wondered why it climbed like a hardtail lol
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Had a quick bounce about on my beast this afternoon, had to up the air pressure on the forks as bottomed them out right away, the shock moves but seems abit stiff and sluggish, is this from lack of use or a sure sign of needing a service?