K2 / Proflex Riders Group
General => Tech Forum => Topic started by: Simon on October 23, 2005, 08:34:12 pm
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Can someone tell me does Ironhorse now have the rights to the K2 brand ???
If so does anyone have any info or idea of the consequences, I'd be interested,
also as Ironhorse is now coming to the UK does this mean we'll be seeing K2's UK bound.
Simon.
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Hey Simon,
Well I did see something about K2 liscensing thier line to some mass marketer. If the mass marketer handles Iron horse, then you may see some cross branding going on.
So will we see the K2 line watered down in search of quick profits? Probably.
I have said it before. K2 killed proflex, and is skewering thier own bike reputation. What has K2 brought us? The completion of Bob Girvin's work and that's it. The smart shocks were'nt so smart. Then they brought in the Turner design and named it the Razorback. Even that is long gone. I believe that the relationship with easton is long gone too. SHOW ME THE CARBON!
So the writing is on the wall. K2 gave up. Yep the 2006 line looks like Iron Horse or others cross branded. Maybe sometimes you need to lose a limb to save a life.
Sorry for the rant, I like to believe that BG lives in every one of my bikes.
Terry
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Yep Terry have to agree,
I was always a Proflex man even my Carbon was a 98
model which was decaled Proflex with K2 taking minor credit,loved them all,the first Offroad bike I saw in the shop window,the s/hand 853 that started it all for me,my first new Proflex (856 that I built up from a frameset) my wife now uses,the carbon my son now has and my 856 project thats my current ride,
to be honest nothing K2 have produced since the carbon models haven't really done much for me,
the Razorbacks were interesting but just a Turner design so not anything origional.
I've always hoped that a new Proflex would emerge
that I would lust over just like I did with the 856 and the carbon,sound like a link up with Ironhorse means this will probabaly never happen :(
unfortunatly it had to happen but I'm lusting elsewhere these days.
Simon.
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Nothing to be confused about, Simon. It's really quite simple when you look at the trend.
Bike co. A opens up and buys Bike co. B. Co. A has no original design as simply uses the current line-up that co. B was using. They make sales and then use the money to..... buy the rights to another design.
Repeat untill closure/selling.
Sad, but true.
There's very few companies that REALLY create something unique and/or original nowadays. I had always hoped to see K2 buy something with a Horst patent on it in hopes of "upping" their line-up (not saying it's the ultimate design, but it has proven itself). As much as I HATE to say it companies like Specialized have a specific niche. They also have laughable ads with propoganda galore, but that's not what this is about.
Bottom line - K2 took ProFlex, worked the lines for profit, now they're not making the money they were a few years ago and they're letting it go.
Our bikes will always be classics. It was THE design that started a revolution thanks to Bob Girvin. We DO have that much to be thankfull for. ;)
K2 has already demonstrated the consequences, so no need to re-hash what they dropped. :(
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I think you've hit the nail on the head for me why I'm
so taken with Whyte bikes,Jon Whyte is I suppose abit of a maverick (no pun intended as he uses Maverick forks now),
maybe he reminds me abit, no ALOT of Bob Girvin,there designs between them may not always be pleasing on the eye for everyone (for others its lust worthy)
but its normally well thought out and engineered,different and works, and tends to split opinions on those who love them others who hate them,there never seems to be an in between opinion,I know which side I'm on.
Simon.
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k2 messed up by:
Not putting any (well VERY little) $$$ in R&D with Noleen and thier prorietary world cup frame (carbon included)
Moving the HQ from RI to Vachon Island just when the Noleen shock fiasco was "blooming"
Having an odd ball i2i length shock, because they bought Noleen (just maybe rights) as well.
Waiting for~ever to put their rebuild kits and spare parts on the web. I can see where they wanted the customer to go to the LBS, but not very many LBS's were/are happy with k2....and those never stocked the parts anyway. Maybe place a wee bit o'blame on the LBS's for not having spare parts on hand.
They didn't manage their R&D well at all for their bike division.....their retail bikes shops or customers as a whole very well.
Not hiring Simon, Callum, Dennis and a few others!! [smiley=laughing.gif]
I may be way off base, but that is MHO and rant.
[smiley=beer.gif]
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As long as K2 are made in China and existing European anti dumping legsilation exists we wil not see new K2 bikes marketed in Europe - they cannot compete on price the high duty tarriffs imposed see to that.
The Horst link is great when used in some designs but it is not the be all and end all. It is only one way to control axle path and most of us ride single pivot Proflex rear ends where it is irrelevant anyway.
To reinforce this, Turner are now dumping the Horst link on their rear ends for 2006 - the benefits were no longer worth the cost of the licence.
HOWEVER, we do ride classic bikes froma classic design stable and that is why I do it. Increasingly, they are looking different to the mass produced and always talking points on the trail. They also ride damn well - what more could we ask for?
Sprucey
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HOWEVER, we do ride classic bikes froma classic design stable and that is why I do it. Increasingly, they are looking different to the mass produced and always talking points on the trail. They also ride damn well - what more could we ask for?
Sprucey
I gotta yap again.
Versatility - how many other bikes out there can you alter to get anywhere between 3-8" or travel? I know I can. [smiley=nod.gif]
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K2 didn't kill proflex. Girvin mountain Sports was owned by Anthony Industries (also known as K2 Corporation) since the 856 era. They only renamed it K2 in 1998 to align the brands. I think the big problem was:
1: the massive number of warranty claims on the 1997 noleen shocks
2: large amount of warranty claims on the 855 world cup frame
3: an office move from RI to VI, losing key staff in the process.
4: full suspension after 1999 became defacto standard for the big guys like cannondale, specialized and trek/marin - k2/proflex was no longer niche. before 2000, k2/proflex was the only company to carry a range of only full suspension bikes.
one of the main reasons why k2 will succeed, financially, is that it holds a lot of the patents for full suspension mountain bikes and everyone else has to pay royalties.
shame about the bike business. the oz and razorback are great bikes that are still valid today.
callum
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I agree with Callum. It's unfortunate - but true. K2 will live on, but they will live on only in name (kind of like Schwinn, IMO) - making NO real jumps ahead in technology, farming out their building of their parts to China (and other low cost, mass producing countries), just collecting money from the past. It's a shame!, but was going to happen [smiley=disbelief.gif].
-Chad
K2 didn't kill proflex. Girvin mountain Sports was owned by Anthony Industries (also known as K2 Corporation) since the 856 era. They only renamed it K2 in 1998 to align the brands. I think the big problem was:
1: the massive number of warranty claims on the 1997 noleen shocks
2: large amount of warranty claims on the 855 world cup frame
3: an office move from RI to VI, losing key staff in the process.
4: full suspension after 1999 became defacto standard for the big guys like cannondale, specialized and trek/marin - k2/proflex was no longer niche. before 2000, k2/proflex was the only company to carry a range of only full suspension bikes.
one of the main reasons why k2 will succeed, financially, is that it holds a lot of the patents for full suspension mountain bikes and everyone else has to pay royalties.
shame about the bike business. the oz and razorback are great bikes that are still valid today.
callum
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Hey guys,
similar tack but who skis on K2 planks?
I am a Saloman man myself - they make skis that suit my style. I currently use a pair fo old Saloman Super Mountains - big wide off piste skis but I'd be interested if the "word" is still pro K2 for skis?
Sprucey
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I love my K2 Classic 4's. They're a bit outdated now, but work fantastically well for an all around ski. Not as big a curve as a lot of the newer shaped skis, but not straight like the old school stuff. Perfect for what I like (which is moguls). A couple of my brother's in law have K2 snowboards. I think they really like them, but I have a hard time talking to snowboarders without being disgusted by them... ::)
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Snowboarders - "gays on trays" ;)
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Snowboarders - "gays on trays" ;)
Nice. I do occasionally have pangs of conscience though when I think that I used to intentionally knock them over when I was a teenager... Snowboarding was still pretty new back then, but they already had the attitude. Fortunately for me, I was good at making it seem like an accident. (Plus, they couldn't catch me if they wanted to...)
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I've got atomics and rossies. Think I'll try and get some new K2's for this season though. lots on ebay at the moment.
callum
rds
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I could be wrong but K2 was only financially backing Pro-Flex, which didn't go down hill until K2 decided to mess with a good thing (moving them was a bad mistake). An "Oz" is a 4500/5500 which is a Pro-Flex. But the biggest thing K2 did in my area was literally DUMP their loyal bike shops, and give the lines to their competitors who also carried their skis. And then the new shops got products they had a hard time selling where they were expensive, and then just got crappy products. The Razor, is a Turner, not a Pro Flex design. Laziness. I would not be surprised if K2 was a nasty name among other New Englander's such as myself.
Now, my first real Mt. Bike was an Iron Horse, and I was quite fond of it. I know they ran into hard times, and then some how I ended up talking to someone who worked there and they were trying to get back on there feet. I think since, they have just been hanging on. I'd like to see Iron Horse come back strong, but I really could care less about the K2 name. It would be great to see the Pro Flex name come back tough. Even if they came back as a high end limited production company, like many have. I would lose my mind if old proflex people got with Aegis! A Maine made Full suspention carbon bike. My mouth is watering now! 8)
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Ok, I'm not an old time Proflex fan. I never knew about the Proflex until I was searching the internet for info on the K2 Evo which I was thinking of buying. This forum plus the Krank videos convinced me to buy it.
Some observations on my part.
K2 was not one of the sponsors of Krank IV (Search for the Holey Trail). Rocky Mountain and Santa Cruz was on Krank IV. They are still very popular bike today.
The success companies, excluding boutique bikes, appear to have well known riders to showcase their bikes. Even Trek and Gary Fisher have developed heavy duty bikes and have hired known riders to showcase them.
Obiviously you need a quality product to sell regardless of the sponsorship. Ironhorse has a successfull sponsored racing program and the Ironhorse following appears to growing.
I think K2 may have blown it by not following the above program after Krank III.
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Something else I think Proflex got wrong.
They signed Henrik Djernis and put him on a suspension bike,the season before he was winning,
on the Proflex he was coming 17th,(there were even allegations that the shock was locked out with a Ti bar).It must of put people off, not just Proflex but F/S bikes in general,
maybe in hindsight they should of taken the route that Marin did in the UK,they took a relatively unknown, Paul Lasenby put him on there latest (for that year)XC F/S bike sat back and watched him win all the biggest XC titles in the UK,had he not done so well no one would of taken much notice,the fact that he was on a F/S bike wouldn't of been an issue.
I was lucky enough to watch the BMW Profex team
race at my local trail a few years ago,Henrik was riding,
Profex didn't win :(though Henrik did lead for a while :P,think they had some top ten finishes.
Simon.
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I could be wrong but K2 was only financially backing Pro-Flex, which didn't go down hill until K2 decided to mess with a good thing (moving them was a bad mistake). An "Oz" is a 4500/5500 which is a Pro-Flex. But the biggest thing K2 did in my area was literally DUMP their loyal bike shops, and give the lines to their competitors who also carried their skis. And then the new shops got products they had a hard time selling where they were expensive, and then just got crappy products. The Razor, is a Turner, not a Pro Flex design. Laziness. I would not be surprised if K2 was a nasty name among other New Englander's such as myself.
Now, my first real Mt. Bike was an Iron Horse, and I was quite fond of it. I know they ran into hard times, and then some how I ended up talking to someone who worked there and they were trying to get back on there feet. I think since, they have just been hanging on. I'd like to see Iron Horse come back strong, but I really could care less about the K2 name. It would be great to see the Pro Flex name come back tough. Even if they came back as a high end limited production company, like many have. I would lose my mind if old proflex people got with Aegis! A Maine made Full suspention carbon bike. My mouth is watering now! 8)
There was a time when k2 was not treating dealers well at all. Forcing quotas, then deep discounting the prices b4 the next model year. (That's how I bought my 857, BTW) Many dealers dumped k2 because of that practice and of course the move to Vachon just killed their warranty service.
Yes it would be nice if Pro~Flex came back as a boutique bike company. Maybe if Bob sells his island.....in our dreams
[smiley=beer.gif]
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Ironhorse make some tough bikes and use the horst link thingy so we might actually see some better 'k2' bikes. The Evo was a decent frame but K2 lost the plot after them. I really don't care what my frame is made of or if it's a copy of someone elses design, i just want it to work and not cost an arm and a leg, with good customer service of course. And snowboarding is cool!!!!