K2 / Proflex Riders Group
General => Tech Forum => Topic started by: jinder on July 26, 2005, 03:24:24 pm
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Big Thank you to Dennis for the front shock!
Here are some photos I took with my 20D.
(http://idriders.com/proflex/galleries/jinder/IMG_6290_Large.JPG)
(http://idriders.com/proflex/galleries/jinder/IMG_6311_Large.JPG)
(http://idriders.com/proflex/galleries/jinder/IMG_6287_Large.JPG)
(http://idriders.com/proflex/galleries/jinder/IMG_6289_Large.JPG)
(http://idriders.com/proflex/galleries/jinder/IMG_6300_Large.JPG)
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Jinder is this the 97 risse (the rear one) with the integrated cone to fit the strut?
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Now that's gotta be one of the five coolest bicycles I've ever seen. That's a "factory" looking install of those shocks.
How's the weight now? [smiley=groucho.gif]
How bad would that sucker be with XTR hubs/discs? [smiley=nod.gif]
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jinder that looks awesome m8, ive got to get the paint off my frame as the polished look is superb. ive got the nr4 shock you sold me fitted now, i made up some nylatron bushes at work and reamed out the shock to fit the ods spacer tube, ive only had a quick spin round the block but the back end feels soooooo much plusher than the ods, ive got to get to the woods and get it set up but its a whole load better. thanks a million.
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Jinder,
the bike looks great. I'm glad the Risse on the front finally found a home. It had been rattling around my desk for quite a while.
I esp. like how you put your name on the fork, very nice looking.
Good luck with it! It looks great.
[smiley=groucho.gif]
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thanks guys!!!
kiwi... yes, I believe it is. I ordered it directly from Risse so it must be.
Will... Thanks man! Yes, it is very light... I will weigh it tonight and relay the info to you. I do have XTR hubs on her...I love this bike so much.
Jeff... you are so welcome, in fact thank you! I am glad you like the NR-4. It has a 600lb spring on it...if you try a 450 or a 500lb it might be more plush. I would love to see some photos too!
Dennis.... your the man! thanks so much for the front Risse...it is working so well. Ionit (Alex) made me the stickers for my forks, smart idea - thanks Alex!
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Wow!
If those shocks work half as good as they look, you are a winner. I bet you lost a couple of pounds to boot.
Nice,
Terry
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Thanks Terry!
The bike is now 23.6lbs - so I did get rid of some weight there!
I'll get an XTR crank next year and lighten her up a bit more...
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NO WAY DUDE! :o
NUTS, 23.6 lbs.! [smiley=furious.gif]
AWE DANG! Looks sweet and is light. :P
OK, I am calming down now. Wow. 8)
Love it. :)
Terry
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23.6lbs!!! thats a good 13 lbs lighter than my xpx. i know my forks weigh more than yours (2lbs ish) and the shock will be heavier than yours (probably another 1lb) that leaves 10lb! ive got reasonably light weight wheels in the alex vectra d2`s, so i guess most of the weight difference must be the frame ( cant see the disc breaks making that much difference in weight to vee`s) i have carbon bars ,use post , race face stem, ac cranks with lx rings, xt mechs, so im really at a loss as to where so much extra weight has come from. must be heavy paint!! ha its definately time to lose the paint!!!
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37 lbs????? For a XPX??
Just had a look in your gallery. Can't be!!!
My Disco Monkey weights the same but it has 2 lbs tyres each, the fork weights about 6 lbs, a 2 lbs shock and it's got all those not leight weight parts on it. It's a FR bike with 170mm travel front and rear and 180mm rotors lousie fr.
So, what happend? Did you fill your frame with lead?
My 853 weights about 26 lbs, my 5000 exactly 27 lbs with a lot of travel front and rear and I have no other bike weighting more than 31 lbs.
Could it be that your weighting machine is crashed?
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hmmmmmmm i think somewhere down the line the scales i used might have been telling porkies. ive just put the bike on the bathroom scales and come up with about 31/32 lbs, would that be about right? the scales i used before were industrial ones that were supposed to be highly accurate. fortunalely i dont work their anymore so i cant try them again (hated the place) but i much preffer the new weight anyway. ;)
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31 to 32 sounds much better.
Still a bit heavy but I think this is due to all that mudcatcher stuff and those things. So it ought to be OK.
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Yes, I swear the honest truth... 23.6lbs I measure it again and it was 23.9lbs (got some mud on her).
She is a dream to ride
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No prob! I believe you.
But I'm envious, jealous and I burst with envy!!!!
I still wonder why my 5000 is that heavy.
I'm using (all weights meassured on my kitchen scale if I say the exact weight):
Proflex 5000 frame size 20 inch (2500 gram without the shock due to TI main pivot bolt and all other bolts are TI, too)
NR 2 shock with TI spring (410 gram)
a custom made carbon saddle/post combi (250 gram)
tune wuerger seatclamp (45 gram, alu, TI)
a complete XTR 9 shifters, drive and brakes (don't know the weight, but should not be the heaviest on the market)
spinergy spox (1650 gram)
schwalbe big jims 2.25 (570 gram each)
schwalbe x light tubes (shall be 123 gram each)
RS Psylo Race (1770 gram)
Easton Monkey Lite SL bar (129 gram)
Ritchey WCS stem (some 120 gram, forgotten the exact weight)
syncros ahead set (some 120 or 130 gram)
foam grips (40 gram)
gore ride on (don't know the weight but shall be lighter than the shimano liners but heavier than nokons)
carbon bottle cage (20 gram including aluminum bolts)
shimano spd 858 (light enough I'd say)
carbon brake booster (some 120 or 150 gram but very stiff)
a fuckin normal chain (u can't save much weight on the chain)
Why is my bike still that heavy?
12.3 kg or some 27 lbs!!!
how much more money do I have to spend to get it down to 11.5 kg?
Or to your weight at 10.7 kg?
A bike test in the last "bike" magazin (Germany) showed several bikes with a lot of travel, very stiff, fat tires, disc brakes and those fucking bikes were lighter than mine, they said! Why?!?
Am I wrong or are they?
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a couple of observations, re: comparing Jinder's bike with yours:
1) your fork is at least a pound heavier than Jinder's (especially since he has that Risse air shock on there), maybe even closer to 2.
2) Even with the ti spring, your rear shock is going to be noticeably heavier than an Astro5. My Astro is about a POUND lighter than my SmartShock was, so figure with your setup, you're probably a couple hundred grams heavier.
3) Jinder's frame is much lighter. It may be a tough frame, but it can't handle anywhere near the abuse that your 5000 frame can. With your Ti upgrades, his may still weigh less WITH the shock than yours does without it...
4) Claimed weights are often wrong. Granted, the German magazines are probably the most objective I've read, but even they may have weighed without pedals, for example. (Since most riders use their own preference in pedals, manufacturers don't include that weight). Shimano pedals are pretty heavy, no matter which model you're talking about.
5) You have two bottle cages, he has one...
6) Homemade carbon fiber parts are usually heavier than you think... Plus, you've got fenders.
On the other hand, you have nice wheels and Jinder has... 36 spoke wheels?! (Jinder, are you crazy?!) You could go with lighter tires, but after my recent experience with "racing" tires, I'd say it's not worth it!
Weight of bikes is a mysterious beast. I added nearly two pounds when I changed from rim brakes to discs. In theory, I should have been staying about the same. I added heavier discs (Avid mechs) but got "lighter" wheels. Turns out that the ACTUAL weight of my $500 Bontrager Race Disc Modified wheelset was noticeably heavier than my $140 Ritchey/XT set I'd had before. Go figure.
If your bike is 27 lbs, I'd say that's great. None of the newer 5-inch travel bikes weigh significantly less than that unless you're willing to spend ~$5000 (in spite what the reviews would have you believe - the "affordable" versions usually weigh 2 lbs more than the top end model in the review). My large 5000 is now just under 29 lbs. (With the Stratos - haven't weighed it with the new Swinger). My wife's medium 5000 is right about 27 lbs with XTR stuff, Mavic CrossLink wheels, Astro5, etc... Some days I'm jealous, but most days I just ride!
If it makes you feel better, my bro-in-law has a brand new Cannondale Prophet (remember that bike that was advertised as weighing 24lbs?). It has XTR cranks, SRAM shifters/derailleurs, Avid Juicy 7's, Mavic CrossMax SL wheels (which I covet), Carbon bars, Lefty Max "fork," Swinger Air shock, etc. Basically top or nearly top of the line everything. He paid $2600 for it - and that was from the bike shop where he used to work and still gets stuff at about 4% over cost! Guess how much it weighs? 27 lbs. Guess that's not such a bad weight after all...
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Excellent breakdown Matno....I really enjoyed reading that post!
I am in the process of upgrading my rims, I do have XTR hubs that I will have to say "bye bye" too. What are good wheel sets to get that are lightweight (with hubs)?
Hmmm, time to shop once again
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Lots of good light wheelsets out there. Not necessarily cheap ones though. I REALLY liked my Ritchey wheels I used to have. They were cheap, light, and durable (at least with my little body on them). They outlasted my SmartShock by a couple of years! Only needed (minor) truing once in three years.
Cane Creek makes nice light wheels. American Classic has some REALLY light ones that aren't super expensive. Varying reports on their durability though. (Some swear by them, some "must have gotten a bad batch...").
I like my Bontragers. They're not super light, but you can find decent deals on used ones.
I really enjoyed building my own wheels for my road bike. You could try that route as well. Won't save you any money, but the satisfaction is there...
Alex makes cheap wheels. Up until about 2 years ago, I wouldn't have touched them with a ten foot pole (crappy quality). Now it seems like they've entered the highER end market with some decent stuff.
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Cooll thanks Matno... I guess its time to replace my old Bontragers.
I'll check those out!
what about the Shimano WH-M540? heavy arn't they? I love their style but they are heavier then cane creek wheels.
Or what about these?
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-2005-RITCHEY-PRO-Z-DEEP-SECTION-ROAD-BIKE-WHEELSET_W0QQitemZ7172537294QQcategoryZ58099QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting
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Those Ritcheys are actually nice-looking wheels, but are you looking to buy them for your road bike?
The Shimanos DO look sweet, but yes, they are heavy. Same goes for all Shimano hubs. The XT's are about the heaviest hubs out there (compared to others of similar quality).
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Hey guys, take a look at this site.
Oddsandendos.safeshopper.com
He has descriptions and weights for his wheels.
I used his theories to build 2 wheels allready from ebay parts. My LBS charges $25 bucks for lace ups.
Terry
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Sweet FIND! Thanks Terry!
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comparing Jinder's bike with yours:
I didn't want to compare his with mine. I just blamed that I feel mine is a bit too heavy.
1) your fork is at least a pound heavier than Jinder's (especially since he has that Risse air shock on there), maybe even closer to 2.
Why nearly 2 lbs? Can't be that his is under 1000 g. Of course his is lighter but I think not that much.
2) Even with the ti spring, your rear shock is going to be noticeably heavier than an Astro5. My Astro is about a POUND lighter than my SmartShock was, so figure with your setup, you're probably a couple hundred grams heavier.
The f.... smart shock is iron! But mine had 660g and now my NR with the TI spring has 410 g. A couple hundret g less would mean close to no weight. How much weights a 209mm i2i air shock? should more than 150 g lighter than mine I think.
3) Jinder's frame is much lighter. It may be a tough frame, but it can't handle anywhere near the abuse that your 5000 frame can. With your Ti upgrades, his may still weigh less WITH the shock than yours does without it...
that sounds true to me.
4) Claimed weights are often wrong. Granted, the German magazines are probably the most objective I've read, but even they may have weighed without pedals, for example. (Since most riders use their own preference in pedals, manufacturers don't include that weight). Shimano pedals are pretty heavy, no matter which model you're talking about.
How much should one add to the weight in the bike mag for peds? I'd say 350g. The claimed weights from me are all from my postal scale. So the weights should be ok. I don't believe claimed weights from manufacturers. Everytime I compare them with my postal scale I get shocked.
5) You have two bottle cages, he has one...
No at the moment I only have one carbon bottle cage, which is exactly 19 g.
6) Homemade carbon fiber parts are usually heavier than you think... Plus, you've got fenders.
Of course home mades are a bit heavier but still lighter than normal alu parts. I try to work according aircraft rules at home so my processes should be pretty ok. And I have removed the fenders to realise those meassured 27 lbs.
On the other hand, you have nice wheels and Jinder has... 36 spoke wheels?! (Jinder, are you crazy?!) You could go with lighter tires, but after my recent experience with "racing" tires, I'd say it's not worth it!
36 is too much jinder!!!!! Lighter tires are not good for me. I need traction in the Alps.
If your bike is 27 lbs, I'd say that's great. None of the newer 5-inch travel bikes weigh significantly less than that unless you're willing to spend ~$5000 (in spite what the reviews would have you believe - the "affordable" versions usually weigh 2 lbs more than the top end model in the review). My large 5000 is now just under 29 lbs. (With the Stratos - haven't weighed it with the new Swinger). My wife's medium 5000 is right about 27 lbs with XTR stuff, Mavic CrossLink wheels, Astro5, etc... Some days I'm jealous, but most days I just ride!
If it makes you feel better, my bro-in-law has a brand new Cannondale Prophet (remember that bike that was advertised as weighing 24lbs?). It has XTR cranks, SRAM shifters/derailleurs, Avid Juicy 7's, Mavic CrossMax SL wheels (which I covet), Carbon bars, Lefty Max "fork," Swinger Air shock, etc. Basically top or nearly top of the line everything. He paid $2600 for it - and that was from the bike shop where he used to work and still gets stuff at about 4% over cost! Guess how much it weighs? 27 lbs. Guess that's not such a bad weight after all...
Thank you! I really love my bike, but I still think it could be a bit lighter. Especially as I have no disc brakes. That would add some hundret g.