K2 / Proflex Riders Group
General => Tech Forum => Topic started by: Frankd3000 on July 15, 2005, 10:12:36 am
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Okay, NO I don't even have my new fork or brakes on yet, BUT, i'd still like to hear some input on this.
I don't do regular major DH'ing, however, there are some fast DH sections of trails I ride. Some is open and "smooth", some is very rooty - where I feel i'd have a big advantage with braking. Most of the time it's rooty descents where the only thing preventing me from going faster is the fact that I feel like the back end of the bike is being "restricted" from moving - i'm assuming this would be a mix of brake squat and the s/arm "locking up".
I think introducing a disc in the rear won't help with either of these situations (please correct me if i'm wrong - i'm only ASSUMING this), and this might be where a floater would shine.
So, yes or no?
I'm not too concerned about mounting details as of yet as I have a few ideas. I'm more concerned about whether or not it's worth doing. IMHO, I think it's worth looking into.
Everyone's experience/opinion/suggestion(s) and any other input would greatly be appreciated with this.
THANKS!
p.s. - I haven't seen this done on a K2/ProFlex yet - maybe a reason?
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See Simon's carbon bilke, He did it!
Terry
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See Simon's carbon bilke, He did it!
Terry
I don't see any pics? I did, however, see the diagrams of the floating mount.
Simon? Do you have something you'd like to share with the class?
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the only thing preventing me from going faster is the fact that I feel like the back end of the bike is being "restricted" from moving - i'm assuming this would be a mix of brake squat and the s/arm "locking up".
IMHO, I think it's worth looking into.
Everyone's experience/opinion/suggestion(s) and any other input would greatly be appreciated with this.
THANKS!
p.s. - I haven't seen this done on a K2/ProFlex yet - maybe a reason?
Actually, the only thing preventing you from going faster is that you're USING your rear brake. In my experience, using the brakes always makes me go slower... ;)
Not a big fan of floating brake systems. Not that I've ever tried one, but I've never really felt like my braking was causing my ride to be choppier. Actually, my riding improved a lot when I learned to let off on the brakes completely during the roughest sections - and just use the brakes before and after the rough. Not always possible, I know, but more often than not, it is. Amazing how you can fly over stuff that you wouldn't even think was rideable - provided your wheels are free to spin...
Personally, I think that the floating brake systems I've seen just make the bike look cluttered--except Simon's, which looks BAD ("bad" as in "good" if you know what I mean)--and add unnecessary weight.
Unless you've got more than 6 inches of rear suspension, I wouldn't bother. Cannondale doesn't use one on their freeride/trail bikes which have a nearly identical pivot point and longer travel than the EVO. I've never heard any of my Gemini-riding buddies complain about the brakes restricting the suspension (and these are guys who complain a lot!) And a lot of downhill competitions have been won on Geminis...
Most of the magazine reviews I've read say that add-on floating brake mounts are throwing a big solution at a very small problem, but there are those who would disagree...
Bottom line: not worth the effort. (Unless you're one of those guys who has a Hopey, a bash guard, a chain keeper, a remote lockout switch for your rear shock, AND studded tires, in which case you HAVE to get one!)
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Ok I've made one and used it,
yes I found it beneficial but only after 3 re-designs on getting the correct mounting points and angles,
also had problems (because of my design) with the caliper mount twisting the pivot mount,the bearing system had to be re-designed,eventually I used a phrospher bronze bush,all in all it was a great project and I'm glad I did it but I have to agree its not worth all the effort,yes you do benefit at the end but there are many variables that mean its easy to make things worse,here's a pic of the finished project,for more pic's you need to look at the 2nd page in my gallery,also have alook here,http://www.therapycomponents.com/floater.htm contact Brian he will be more than willing to pass on any advice,
(http://idriders.com/proflex/galleries/Simon/PHTO266.jpg)
Simon
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Simon,
You really should redo the sticker on that swingarm. Clearly, that bike is no longer a 4500. You need to come up with your own, unique number. 8)
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How about 007?
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Simon,
You really should redo the sticker on that swingarm. Clearly, that bike is no longer a 4500. You need to come up with your own, unique number. 8)
Ahhh Matno you may have a point there,
Shovelon,thats worth considering [smiley=laughing.gif],
But at the moment she's just sat against the garage wall looking forlorn :( as a frameset whilst I play with my new project,
my intention was always to end up with both framesets built but costs have put paid to that,
hopefully a cheap bike will come along with good components that I could purchase and transfer over,until then its one or the other.
Simon
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(to Simon) Gallery's have a second page?!?!??!?!??! :o
(runs to Simon's second page) Ooooooohhhhh. Aaaaaahhhh. Oh my! [smiley=nod.gif]
Alright, Terry sent me an e-mail with a link to one of the threads that Simon had about this. I'll have to look for more. VERY interesting.
Make things worse? How, I'd assume that you would want to try to duplicate a "perfect" parallelogram (or very close) and you're done. Well, more or less. I know with my geometry that I can make a parallelogram, and also do what you did with a bracket to provide a bit of adjustment. Fine tuning would be inevitable, but that's a given considering the circumstances.
I've read many reviews of owners who rave about theirs. The closest design i've read about (and plenty of, too) was Santa Cruz's Bullit. It also posesses a very close pivot location to my 3000.
Okay, well, maybe i'll just reserve this year for dialing in what I already have planned for the oven, and leave this project on the back burner. Too much food on the plate and it's not fun anymore. The Minute 1 and Avid's are slated for the end of this month. That'll be enough for this year. ;)
Thanks guys! If anyone has anymore they'd like to add then by all means, please feel free.
Hmmm, i'm suddenly hungry. [smiley=laughing.gif]
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Even if you got one working perfectly you'll have to worry about maintenance issues. Wear and tear of moving parts can be a headache.
Agree with Matno about the over use of brakes.
Buddy of mine placed second in the expert division of dual salom at the Deer Valley a couple weeks ago. During the pre-season he broke his front brake and practiced that way. He commented that it did make him a faster racer.
Checkout Nathan Rennie riding a downhill with no front brakes. It's amazing how he can still make the tight turns by shifting his weight to the front tire.
http://idriders.com/proflex/files/ChasingRennie.mpg
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Frankd3000
Make things worse,well my first attempt the anchor point was on the top shock bolt,what appeared to happen was when you braked the force applied to the shock bolt pivoted the frame around the main s/arm pivot thus jacking up the rear,I then lowered the anchor point this improved things,then I lowered it to the point you now see,much better,what you also have to consider if setting up a perfect parallelogram that when the suspension compresses that the caliper does move a reasonable amount in an arc around the disc.
Simon.