K2 / Proflex Riders Group
General => Tech Forum => Topic started by: jetman624 on April 15, 2005, 08:18:41 am
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Why do all you guys insist on hanging on to these bikes? I am sure you have good reasons, I am just curious as to what they are. My uncle bought one back in the day (that is how i got mine) so I am sure it was top dog at some point cause he always buys the best of the best, but why havn't you guys upgraded? I could be wrong but it seems like the suspension stuff is kinda out dated and getting a rear shock has proved to be some what of a hassle. So what makes these bikes so great???
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Show me an Upgrade...................
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Show me an Upgrade...................
[smiley=nod.gif] [smiley=laughing.gif]
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I love that term - "outdated design".
I'm a car nut. For many years now i've done the whole "eat, breath, sleep and talk cars" thing. Let's do a little comparison, shall we?
Take a look at about 75% of todays car's suspension designs and engines. Do you think they're "cutting edge" technology? I gaurantee you they're not. Some of today's best suspension design's were born before you, I, and even our oldest member (OP? no offense) were even born. Same goes for engines. When do you think the SOHC/DOHC engines were born - certainly not in the past 30 or 40 years.
So, now let's look at mountain bike suspensions. Outdated? It's ALL the same stuff, re-hashed with a different main pivot, maybe linkage added and a shock absorber somewhere in the mix. Is it REALLY that critical? IMHO, nope. Look at our suspension design and take a look at other manufacturers that use the same design. I can think of a few that use neaarly the exact same pivot point as my 3000. The "best example"? The CycleMountain San Andreas. Major difference? Shock orientation. And maaaany others. (oh, it's even worse with forks - "telescopic rules" - whatever)
I'm NOT trying to come off as sounding like some kind of bugger that's trying to shut you up or anything of the sort. PLEASE don't read me in that manner.
If you're worried about how cool you'll look on a K2 or a ProFlex then go buy a Gary Fisher, Ellsworth, Ventana or Turner. You can look cool while you're broke. [smiley=laughing.gif]
Too many people associate high price tags with quality - i'd like to think I know the truth.
Again, i'm not trying to sound like a bugger, just inform you that you might be reading what other people type with too much insight that is steering you in a direction that isn't needed in life. Don't worry about what other people think - worry about what you know.
Now go RIDE your bike.
But get some new shocks first. ;) Heater hose is for cars. :)
Oh, these bikes are great because we know they work. I won't be buying any telescopic forks soon, that's for damn sure. Also, TONS of frames aren't made in North America - they're farmed out to somewhere it's CHEAPER to produce them. "Made in the U.S.A." usually means it's expensive because it's more expensive to do this stuff in North America. Same goes for "Made in Canada" (ie. Rocky Mountain). It's like this with most everything you buy nowadays.
edited for content - apologies
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VERY VERY well put Frankd3000
NOTHING more need be said!!!!!
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Just gotta weigh in here...
Ever since I sold my first Proflex in '97, I've wanted it back. Yes, that 455 was low spec, BUT the essential geometry is very little different from the unanimous Bike of The Year, the Cannondale Prophet.
The guy I sold it to wouldn't sell it back for twice what he paid for it! [smiley=disbelief.gif]
So I eBay'ed an 856 frame a year ago. That has been one fine machine to ride and work on. Not only is it high quality tubing and welding, the geometry is still state-of-the-art and the suspension is brick simple.
Now of course it needed some upgrades to disc brakes (done) and SPV shocks (not yet) and sealed bearing pivots (maybe) to make it a modern performer.
If you could see me ride it, you'd be amazed. A 210 pound beast taking four foot drops and landing flat footed. It's amazing.
For me, it all boils down to this ageless truism:
Simplicity is the essence of design. [smiley=groucho.gif]
Yes, I get a lot of smarmy yuppy comments from "cityfolk" but it just feels that much better when I smoke past 'em on a 10 year old bike. [smiley=nod.gif]
With all that said, I just put sliders back on my 856 and plan to sell my Xlinks. But only because I can't get a fat boy spring that will fit. [smiley=worry.gif]
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I fell in love with my 857, then an Oz frame I built up to my specs. :P :-*
Sure you can argue that the frame is outdated, the Noleen rear shock certainly is!
The bikes came with a good pedigree at one time.
They (the bikes) are kinda like old sports cars, they are fun to ride and we have a certain affection towards them.
If I see a cherry BMW 2002tii running around my neck of the woods, I drool...or a '67 Porsche 912. If I see a MBZ CL65, I just sigh. Get it?
[smiley=beer.gif]
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jetman, if you have ever ridden one of these bike,s, you would understand our love for them. outdated? get an Oz, it certainly is not oudated (imho). it seems that they were actually ahead of their time, and that the rest of the world is just starting to catch up.
when the Oz was built, mags and "experts" said that cf was brittle and was not a good material for bikes. well, everyone and his brother is building cf bikes and components these days, even stems!
when I ride my Oz, it is amazing how many people think that it is the latest superbike. as for my "obsolete" spinergy rev-x carbon wheels, there is nothing that I have found that ride as smoothly as they do. they are a bit heavy and hinder climbing a bit, but all round, they are still the best wheels I have ridden on a mtb.
don't go new just for the sake of new. only do it if it is really better.
btw, I drive a 15 year old car because it is still the best car for me. Recaro seats, composite wheels, variable nozzle turbo. the latter two still haven't been copied by other cars. plus, it is a hatchback which fits my bikes, is fast, economical, and cost $12,000.00 brand new. (listed for $17,000.00 but I got a deal).
anyway, research what works before you buy some new "miracle" bike.
another bit of food for thought, this forum has always been friendly, nice, and a place of peace. I don't appreciate some of the language and attitude that has been used lately. We are all lovers of the same bikes and should be of the same mind. please let's return to tranquility in thought, mind, and deed.
[smiley=groucho.gif]
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I got my dream bike.. the 957.... I see no so called, "Upgrade" for me. Its like a 1985 Ferrari 288 GTO....
My 957 will stay with me until I leave this Earth
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yep there old but they are light and relatively stif,and we lov em.Did you notice the name of this forum......
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wow, what a great thread. And perfect timing for me. I am currently spending $2000 to build up a 7 year old 4500/5500 frame that I bought 1.5 years ago. And I have caught myself wondering why I just didn't buy a new prophet or yeti and is it really smart to spend so much money on a 7 year old frame. thanks for the affirmations.
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chainsaw,
just to reiterate, you are doing absolutely, positively the correct thing. you won't be sorry! (imho).
[smiley=groucho.gif]
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Why do I like my bike? Well Bob Girvin was at the top of his game when things fell apart at proflex. I was taken by the fact that his company ONLY built suspenders. So his entire reputation rested on the quality of his line. But he gambled on market share and lost.
The high pivot, semi-active design was perfected on the strutless bikes. My Oz falls into that catagory. It has dominated to this date until the arrival of platform hydrualics And VPP. The only way the other builders could match. Now you see platform designs coupled with high pivot, such as Haro, Santa Cruz, Cannondale, Marin, you name it.
So with a small investment in an SPV shock, much cheaper than a new bike, I have a bike that works better than them all, looks better than them all, and I still like the fact that K2 Carbon frame production was halted because they lost money on every one they sold. Oh, and first build effort on my Oz was less that 25 lbs., try buying anything that light that can do what mine could do.
And the 2 best looking bikes ever made is the 957 and my Oz.
Simple, Solid, Sexy.
Terry
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I am not imberresed by my bike in the least. I love it. My uncle had swaped in a rockshox fork and other the the rear "shock", or lack there of, it is a champ. I love when I go into a bike store (before i knew they weren't gonna have parts for it) and ask about a shock or something and tell them I have a proflex. I always get this look of reverence, like "oohh a proflex". I can't help but think if they hadn't gone under that they would very much be on the top of the mtn bike game.
Anyways, thanks for the input. Can't wait to get a real shock on that thing and hopefully some disc breaks.
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HAHAHA! I hear you there. Went to the LBS today and brought my 3000. "Holy mackeral, I haven't seen one of those in aaaages". [smiley=laughing.gif]
Thanks for not taking my post the wrong way. ;)
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Check this thread and maybe it will give you some insight. http://idriders.com/cgi-bin/YaBB_K2/YaBB.pl?board=news;action=display;num=1108423532
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My first post in reply to this thread was so simple.........< show me an upgrade>..... In any other forum I just knew this guy was asking for a flaming....!
But here.....? well, restraint may be stretching the truth, but , hey guys, the passion you've all shown for our bikes makes me tearful......! <Sob!>
< Dennis> On the theme of old cars, I drive a 10 year old World Rally Car, when I saw Carlos Sainz win the World Rally Championship in the Celica GT4, I said, " I want one of those" and a few years late I bought one....Hey, A Scooby is faster, an Evo is more powerful, but who won a WRC...? (well maybe McRae in the Scooby)
But Carlos is still King, even in a Citroen!!
What is it you're driving?
Who else rides 10 year old bikes and loves them so much........?
When this guy said " my uncle gave me the bike" I thought of my Nephew and thought "nah, he'd never want one of my old bikes, but next Thurday when me and his old man go out on our bikes it'll be my Pro-Flex that still grabs the attention!
Let's just be glad that there's someone under 40 yrs old on this forum and riding a Pro-Flex !!
Someone get him some MCU's or a proper shock!
(I'm going to lie down in a cool dark room now......)
Col.
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if ya gotta ask - - - ya ain't gonna understand -
OP
(oldest member? Oldest Proflexer?
my cane is also useful for tossing in annoying peoples spokes, at speed. ;)
any of you kids ever see 'american flyer'?)
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After giggling my way through this post, I just wanted to throw my 2 cents...
I ride a '99 OZ (modded)
I drive a 03' Scooby Forester XT (modded)
I use a '05 AMD64 3500+ (modded)
I'm 33 years old (soon to be modded back to 27)
All of these are fantastic foundations to improve on and upgrade, yet are not mainstream or common place. Owning a Proflex or Scooby is like inheriting an historic Mansion. It might be old, but still looks great and has plenty of room for upgrades and individualisation!!! ;D
Scheiwzer-Nichi.
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Good NIght Swiss. my specs,
-2000 Oz- modded from scratch
-'03 scooby baja- bike friendly(kids say it is Dadded)
'-99 HP 366 Windows 98 (Clunker but stout)
-'56 body- modded, prodded, poked, choked(hey, life don't start til your 40).
You are right on about that good base to build on.
Terry
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I drive the only vehicle that I have owned for 20 years now. bought my brand new Toyota Landcruiser in 1985 for a little over $14,000.
http://mannphoto.com/lc to see photos of it.
I like driving something that is different.
so I guess its the same with the mountain bike I ride. Really didn't even notice the connection untill it was pointed out here on this thread... the connection between driving old frames and old cars/trucks.
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SPOKES?!?! You wouldn't! Naaahhh. But then again, I don't wanna find out.
Apologies, OP. I was simply giving in to shallow-minded thinking with the Username. :-[
;D
SwissNic - modded back to 27 - HAHAHA! I hear ya' there. I'm 30 modded to 18, usually. ::)
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Been off line for abit due to our computer giving up the ghost,
anyway coming in late on this one but in answer to the question apart from the many reasoned answers already given,
its because I like them [smiley=laughing.gif]
and yes I've tried many other makes.
Simon.
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This thread has turned out to be a hoot!
my specs:
main mtb - 99 Oz with Precision Billet mechs and brakes (no longer being made), Spinergy Rev-X wheels,( no longer made), about to get Precision Billet shifters
tourer: 90 or 91 Trek 930 - modded by me, with some new stuff like Aerospoke wheels and Avid discs, but with Precision Billet mechs.
road bike - Calfee carbon (2002) but with Record 9 speed components (bought when they came out with 10 speed making 9 speed "obsolete").
other road bike - 69 Peugeot - currently undergoing restoration to ridable condition
other mtb - Giant carbon HT - no longer imported into US, with Precision Billet mechs and shifters.
notice a pattern with the mechs?
car - 89 Shelby CSX (only 500 were ever made, all were 89 models with variable nozzle turbo and composite rims - both out of production, composite rims were only used on this car)
the following may not mean much to you guys, but it does to me and shows how much I appreciate old stuff, being an old guy:
saxophones: 1926 Buescher sopranino, 1928 Buescher alto, although my main "axe" is a 2002 Selmer baritone sax, with a very rare brushed finish, not polished- although the mouthpiece I use is a 1971 Berg Larsen metal that was a b-day gift to me from my parents in 1971.
clarinets: early 60's Selmer B-flat and Bass
alto flute: 1962 Armstrong
just bought a late 60's Selmer bassoon.
flute, alas, is a Yamaha, saving to upgrade to vintage Haynes or Powell
body - 1955, modded to have no hair on top of head
2001 Dell desktop and 2003 Dell laptop
windsurf board - designed and made by ME about 15 years ago, still faster than most guys I sail with who have the latest thing.
Cheers!!
[smiley=groucho.gif]
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Dennis
I too have the smooth head body option.
In my case it's a solar panel for a sex machine!
haa, haa haa..............falling off of chair........