K2 / Proflex Riders Group
General => Tech Forum => Topic started by: Scooter on January 04, 2014, 10:47:12 am
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(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Lsu1J5mMwhM/UshUka4nbHI/AAAAAAAAvuU/wHuOnogaMTI/w1160-h870-no/IMG_0764.JPG)
Here's a better picture.
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Too cool! I missed a chance on one of those several years back. :P
Now you have another fork to compare to the other pivot points.
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Excellent! that's a nice purchase!
Col.
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Don't compare the measurements of this fork to you 957 as this is a way big and it's fork is longer and specific to this size frame. Awesome bike though!
Chris
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Switched the crank arms and gears to Kooka, Shimano DX pedals, SRAM nickle chain and WTB seat. All pretty much correct for that era. Have a couple more changes to do than I'll post some more pics. Having fun :D
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The kooka stuff is a bit early for the 4000 and was last used on the 957 and Animal. Not that it matters of cause, as long as your happy ;). The chain set in the picture is correct for the bike, a mixture of xt rear mech and lx front mech, lx crank arms and rings. The year before 857 was all xt but they specked the 4000 down a little for some reason.
But then in a lot of cases last years xt is this years lx so they are sort of the same!?! ???
I'm still using the same lx cranks and gears on my 4000 that it came with new in '98, they're bomb proof and won't die!
But I must admit, black kooka cranks would bling it up nicely... 8)
Pictures please.......
Chris
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Sneak peek. 8)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-nzsWKOGdBWk/UsuKNisva5I/AAAAAAAAvwY/fT8VKtwZ58M/w1160-h870-no/IMG_0775.JPG)
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The little nubby frame piece the front derailleur is mounted to is kinda funny.
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That is the same as mine very nice indeed I have since fitted a 3 way manitou swinger on the rear and think it improves what I think is a great ride used to have an 857 twenty years ago would like to know if they ride the same I cannot remember.
My Spec
3 way Swinger Rear
SLX front chainset
Slx Front mech
Xt rear mech
Charge Spoon saddle
Racetech
Seat post
Xt Brake and gear levers
FSA handlebars and stem
Cane Creek headset
Mavic XM rims on XT hubs
Panaracer XC pro tyres
Uprated swingarm pivot via machine shop and roller bearings
Test rode new bikes but still love the Flex
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The little nubby frame piece the front derailleur is mounted to is kinda funny.
Technical term that ha ha. Function over form I think ;)
Chris
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My 857 definitely feels less bouncy (travel) than my 4000. I liken the 857 to a hard tail with the sting taken out it where as the 4000 is a full blown suspension bike. In suspension terms the 4000 is a vast improvement over the 857. I still love riding both though as they both have their merits depending on what sort of terrain you are on. Best bet is to have one of each in my opinion :)
My 4000 has a Fox Float RP2 on the rear and it's superb.
Chris
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After sleeping on this I've worked out what I was trying to say: the suspension on the 4000 is more 'active' than the 857. This is because the shock on the 4000 is mounted closer to the swingarm pivot point so has a higher shock ratio, ie more leverage. Phew!
Chris
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The little nubby frame piece the front derailleur is mounted to is kinda funny.
Technical term that ha ha. Function over form I think ;)
Chris
The Oz I believe had some mounting difficulties as far as QC and durability of the post with regards to being integrated into the spliced frame?
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New (NOS) Mavic 217 SUP Ti rims with GT hubs (when GT hubs were still made in the USA) and Hutchinson Toro tires. Mounted the front rim today.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Zbr_TnV1j3M/Us4EcfrGD6I/AAAAAAAAvw0/V2Lt6G31Uj4/w1160-h870-no/IMG_0778.JPG)
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Been having fun fixing her up. Here's my progress.
Installed some riser bars.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-oZ0OjK2OJzE/UtSqa2uZLuI/AAAAAAAAvxs/RhMZ7emG7qg/w1188-h891-no/IMG_0784.JPG)
Installed Altec Shark fin brake levers and XT click shifters
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-O0-jHkOq4Xo/UtSqdMHlRnI/AAAAAAAAvyE/Wih4E9uCPt4/w1188-h891-no/IMG_0787.JPG)
Got the cluster installed on the Mavic rims and put new tubes and tires on. I love these rims.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-vj4MrKJ4MzY/UtSqer_nrgI/AAAAAAAAvyU/aH5OZYENeIE/w1188-h891-no/IMG_0789.JPG)
Waiting on the cables I ordered ;D
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I'm liking your style, keep it up! Fast becoming (one of) the nicest 4000's on here!
Chris
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Alright guys. I have completed the first attempt at putting it all together. I bought the bike for 200 and that seemed was a good deal but the reality was that the bike was worn out in several areas and if I hadn't been willing to spend several hundred in parts plus have a lot of donor parts than the bike probably wouldn't have been worth it to refurbish. I had fun putting it together but am happy it's done so I can finally go ride it :D.
I had a few problems. The rear hub was worn out, the front derailleur was bent, the tube inside the swing arm was broken. Here's the build. More pictures the better, Right :)
Hadley GT hubs
Mavic 217 Ti SUP UB rims
XT gear cluster
Hutchinson Toro tires
XTR V-brakes. Bought on Ebay, cleaned and repacked the bearings. Cool Stop Salmon pads installed.
Kooka cranks and chain rings, donor from 957
Shimano DX pedals
XT front and rear derailleur's, donor from 957
WTB seat, Ti rails
Jagwire cables and Ti housings
Pro taper gold anodized riser bars
WTB 4-front clamp on grips
XT shifters, donor from 957
Altek brake levers, donor from 957
Titec stem
Titec seat post
.99 cent chinese gold anodized seat clamp :D
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-v3FGczNet2M/UtxiKGyaHnI/AAAAAAAAv2Q/3YB5zS4tAqQ/w809-h607-no/IMG_0802%255B1%255D.JPG)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-qUUStsTL9Ec/Utxh6oCmIFI/AAAAAAAAv1Q/PpJfV03MKTY/w809-h607-no/IMG_0799%255B1%255D.JPG)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-hFXIO2Pk5F4/UtxiOhJmr-I/AAAAAAAAv2o/ndohd5khlUs/w809-h607-no/IMG_0803%255B1%255D.JPG)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-9a1ZgIvmetU/UtxhmfnSbSI/AAAAAAAAv0I/6FWfz9oSB0g/w809-h607-no/IMG_0795%255B1%255D.JPG)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-8LdpPlmxeV0/Utxhc-54mVI/AAAAAAAAvzY/NNrbiHzY9JQ/w809-h607-no/IMG_0793%255B1%255D.JPG)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-yyf41gOt0V8/UtxhqRo-3RI/AAAAAAAAv0c/jZ1omujLbDE/w809-h607-no/IMG_0796%255B1%255D.JPG)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-0NVhwdVmggk/UtxhYA1b2uI/AAAAAAAAvzM/KdNRcsZvKrw/w676-h901-no/IMG_0792%255B1%255D.JPG)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-nOZUj_eE_h8/UtxhSp4VwiI/AAAAAAAAvy4/4zsEaZ5l5vw/w809-h607-no/IMG_0791%255B1%255D.JPG)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Li2SqdhySFs/UtxiSkgaDwI/AAAAAAAAv20/C23nvn_Al_s/w809-h607-no/IMG_0804%255B1%255D.JPG)
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Excellent job and congrats on a really top quality looking build. I hope your shocks are still in good working order and you enjoy the ride.
Chris
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excellent job! I've got a 4000 frame in the loft awaiting my attention, but I've got too much on at the moment to be starting another. you got me thinking now. :o
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Great Job! Well done!
That's one to be proud of.
Here's a gratuitous photo of my 4000...........
(http://idriders.com/proflex/smf/MGalleryItem.php?id=249)
Col.
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That is an awesome bike. Those rims and the fenders give the bike an aggressive look. I noticed the rear shock is upside down compared to mine. Whats the story with that? I am going to ride my bike for a month or two to get the feel of it before I make any changes. I will check the shocks at that point. Also, the riser stem may be to much. Seemed fine with the regular bars but now that I have the riser bars I may replace the stem. Also, my immediate concern is how much stiction seems to be coming from the front fork. I bought new bushings for it. I want to rebuild it but I just want to ride it for a bit before I dive into that.
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Thanks,
The shock is "shaft end down" as I have a length of inner tube over the end of the shock body (under the coil) covering the piston shaft so that it will keep muck off it and in the belief that muck is less likely to be driven into the shock body if gravity is against it................I do this on the shocks on all of my bikes......{author prepares to get torn apart in his misguided beliefs} <GRIN>........But then again I have run ODS and Noleen shocks for 17 years and only had one Noleen shock failure (NR-5 front)
And anyway, weren't all NR-4's on "two tube bikes" supplied "my" way round? (But x57's were the other way up)
Col.
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From new the NR4 was fitted upside down on 4000 and 5000 as per Scooters bike and Col has dared to be conventional and fit his the right way up - which is really the wrong way up.... You get it.
I remember trying to swop mine around as it does look strange up side down but seem to remember the shock fouled the top mount. That was why they fitted them this way around.
Col must have clearanced the top mount area a bit to get his shock that way round?
On the subject of your stiff forks, if your not going to service them now it might pay to squirt a bit of grease into the linkage grease ports before you ride it just incase they are dry. These forks run plane nylon bushes not bearings so you don't want to run them dry and wear them or the metal links out.
If the forks are greased and free it's probably the shock needs re charging with nitrogen.
Chris
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As per my 4000 :)
(http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j413/proflexk2/Myk24000.jpg) (http://s1084.photobucket.com/user/proflexk2/media/Myk24000.jpg.html)
And actually they were fitted "upside down"on 957's as well.
Chris
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There you go. Not mine though sadly.
(http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j413/proflexk2/957-2_zps043eea03.jpg) (http://s1084.photobucket.com/user/proflexk2/media/957-2_zps043eea03.jpg.html)
Chris
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Love those carbon forks would love them on mine will post some pics soon here in the Uk we have had soo much rain the 4000 is covered still love riding all year round enjoy your ride
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From new the NR4 was fitted upside down on 4000 and 5000 as per Scooters bike and Col has dared to be conventional and fit his the right way up - which is really the wrong way up.... You get it.
I remember trying to swop mine around as it does look strange up side down but seem to remember the shock fouled the top mount. That was why they fitted them this way around.
Col must have clearanced the top mount area a bit to get his shock that way round?
On the subject of your stiff forks, if your not going to service them now it might pay to squirt a bit of grease into the linkage grease ports before you ride it just incase they are dry. These forks run plane nylon bushes not bearings so you don't want to run them dry and wear them or the metal links out.
If the forks are greased and free it's probably the shock needs re charging with nitrogen.
Chris
Nope, no fouling involved (unless you count bike shorts! <GRIN>) so nothing had to be clearanced on the 4000.
an NR-4 also seems to fit fine "my" way around on the Carbon frame.
I agree with Chris, if you have any doubts about the smooth action of the forks, get 'em lubed up!
The only time I've seen heavy wear of the nylon (?) bearings is when they've been run dry and dirty.
Easy check is to unbolt the top mount bolt of the shock and then cycle the fork legs through their movement, should be no "stiction" at all really.
Nice selection of 4000's appearing on here; mine is a "4000se" sold in Belgium, allegedly to the Belgium F1 commentator equivalent of Murray Walker, supposedly Schuie has had his leg over it! (Hope he recovers fully!)
Col.
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Hi all,
This is my 4000 after todays mud ride just taken the lizard skin off the shock will post some more after cleaning
(http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k170/fridgehq/P1260060.jpg) (http://s88.photobucket.com/user/fridgehq/media/P1260060.jpg.html)
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Are those just standard front mud guards you guys use made for round tube frames?
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Hi Scooter,
This is a link http://www.cycraguard.co.uk/ (http://www.cycraguard.co.uk/) to the mudgaurds I use they have been excellent the fitting comes with a flexible strap that fits round the square down tube been using them for 3 years now you may be able to use many others with flexible fasteners hope this helps
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I bought an off the shelf gaurd for the front which has the square and round shape in it so I can use it on both the 4000 and the 857. There are lots of different ones in the shops.
My 4000 runs a FOX rear shock now which is a great improvement over my NR4 which was in need of a desparate rebuild.
(http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j413/proflexk2/IMG_0287.jpg) (http://s1084.photobucket.com/user/proflexk2/media/IMG_0287.jpg.html)
Chris
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Col what was the difference between the 4000 and the 4000se.
Mine is a first month 4000, I had it on pre-order from new. I changed the spec from new to inclucde the carbon forks and swopped the NR5's for a NR4 on the rear and NR2 on the front. Didnt some of the later 4000 have sealed bearings in the swing arm just like the Monkey's?
Chris
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Col what was the difference between the 4000 and the 4000se.
Mine is a first month 4000, I had it on pre-order from new. I changed the spec from new to inclucde the carbon forks and swopped the NR5's for a NR4 on the rear and NR2 on the front. Didnt some of the later 4000 have sealed bearings in the swing arm just like the Monkey's?
Chris
About $249 !!! <GRIN>
Yes, the se had the CS fork as standard; other than that, they were identical. They weren't even badged differently!
So, if you upgraded to a CS fork on purchase then effectively you also have an "se"!
I think mine had some other "sold at source" upgrades, inlcuding ceramic rims and brake blocks, which I don't run anymore, using the Spin 3 spoke carbons instead, at the moment.
I'm not sure if Titec bar ends were as standard or extras, what was on yours? I've replaced those with longer Ti one's anyway.
I had to replace the crankset and so put an FSA Carbon one on.
The 4000rs was the needle bearing version which then became the "Evo" and then "Monkey"
Col.
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I'm guessing the 'se' came a bit later on then because when I ordered mine the choice was either a 4000 or a 5000. I couldn't afford a 5000, but to buy a 4000 and up spec the forks off-set with down specing the shocks, was much cheaper. Like I say, I ordered mine before they were released, probably 6 months before. Mine had Titec bar ends also.
Chris
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My 4000se was badged with 4000se stickers..but can't prove it via photo because it's been sand blasted, also discovered it has 16" stamped on the back of the bottom bracket, anyone else have this? or was u.k frames different?
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Lubed and adjusted the swing arm pivot today. It was stiff enough that it wouldn't fall with it's own weight. Way better now.It's a noticeable difference. Next task to tackle is cleaning and lubing the front linkages. Now where did I put that mini grease gun!
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Good man, it'll be worth it!
Chris
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I took apart the front suspension. I had bought the bushings and was going to replace them but they looked like they were in good shape and the bushings on my bike had a groove where the grease hole is. The bushings I bought didn't have that grove so I would have had to cut the groove myself. In the end I just cleaned and greased everything. The assembly went ok except when I removed the bolts that hold on the legs it seemed like they had been tightened very tight. When I put it back together, I first tightened them tight but that caused the linkage to become stiff so I backed off the bolts until the linkage had pretty free movement. The movement isn't absolutely free moving, for example with the linkage lifted up, it does not fall on its own. But it can be moved up and down relatively freely. Does that sound correct? Secondly when I tightened the bottom leg bolt, there was a gap at the top leg bolt area so I took the two thin spacers that had been initially located on the bottom and moved them to the top to lessen this gap. In the end, the stiction is gone :) . It's been raining so I have only been able to ride it in the neighborhood but so far I am satisfied. Getting closer to getting everything dialed in.
As a side note. I see the bolts were supposed to be torqued to 100 in. lbs. I will recheck that. I also see the shims were only supposed to go on the bottom link. I will have to revisit that also. I just ordered new seals so I will redo the seals when I receive them. Come to think of it, the bolts must of appeared to be tight due to the blue loctite.
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You seem to have worked it all out for yourself, well done, but just to give you peace of mind..
All bolts should be done up to correct torque and yes a dab of blue loctite should be used on all bolts.
When freshly greased the links won't fall under their own weight as the grease stiction will stop them. They probably fell before as they had no grease left in there. Remember, if you were to fit the wheel minus the shock they would fall freely with no stiction due to the weight of the wheel. You are looking for a smooth action with no tight spots.
After a few rides the grease will settle in and they will free off a little anyway so better to start off with a smooth but firmer build.
But most of all tighten those bolts up fully and lock them in, otherwise they will work loose mid ride...!?!
Chris
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Been having fun riding. The bike is getting dialed in. I have a very slight creak that comes and goes. Hard to pinpoint but it seems to happen when I am putting pressure on the cranks. I get tons of compliments and people are amazed when they hear the bike is 16 years old. :D
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Check your crank arm bolts are tight ax that gives a creak there. Glad your enjoying the power of the 4000!
Chris
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Crank creaking can drive you more insane. You may have to remove the cranks and clean the tapers, then wipe a very thin bit of lube on there before reassembly. Essentially, wipe it on with a finger and then wipe it off to leave a minimal film.
Re: the Loctite, be sure to remove all the old Loctite and torque the screws while the new Blue
is wet or your torque values won't be accurate. Likewise any non-loctited fasteners should be torqued with lube for the same reason.
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Took apart the bottom bracket,cranks and chain rings. Replacing the chainring bolts. Will also check the pedals. The creaking was driving me crazy.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-rkM8Bih9mQ0/Uz7z_L2qwII/AAAAAAAAwGE/EQuUnjIcNgk/w868-h651-no/14+-+1)
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it is a short drive seeing as how you are a Proflexer :P
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Ugggh, still have creak. I didn't do the pedals. I hope that's it. Man it's tough to find.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-lOkr3-8x-eQ/U0Nes8_nr3I/AAAAAAAAwI8/I3kl0z-a95I/w871-h653-no/14+-+1)
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Are you absolutely sure it's not your Trocho-Ginglymus Femur/Tibia Pivot (Human Mk1a) ??
It's a very old design and due for an upgrade, if only we can get manufacturer support again........
<GRIN>
Col.
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LOL I am not sure of anything at this point. Even looked at the seat stem/clamp. I'll find it just have to keep at it.
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That gold center chain ring spider is swaged on. I did find a squeaker there many years ago when wrenching at the LBS. Cleats can squeak as well.
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Does it only creak under pedalling or also when coasting?
That may narrow it down to drive train or suspension.
Col.
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I've had 3 creaks on my 4000 over the last 16 years. The first was the sadle rails, second the square taper bb to crank and the third turned out to be the head bearings. All 3 creaks only happened when putting power down under peddling. The forces of peddling do strange things! Try shifting your body weight about to localise to noise as it might not be anything to do with the bb area.
Chris