K2 / Proflex Riders Group
General => Tech Forum => Topic started by: sammydog on October 07, 2009, 02:06:41 am
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You've all probably read of the demise (temporary until I get them re-welded) of my 955 and 855 frames.
I've been busy emailing and calling everyone I know in the bike industry over here and have managed to lay my hands on a never built up 857 in medium size (still in factory bubble wrap) with a spare swing arm (never used), spare seat stay and a bunch of other things like pivot kits and the like.
Its not the 955 front triangle that I would have liked, but I am pretty happy at the moment and who's going to knock back a pristine 857.
The only question now is, do I build it up old school or go all out and strip the XTR off my current race bike. I think I am heading down the path of the latter.
When the frame arrives I will put up pictures.
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Fantastic!
Build it up totally modern, and it'll be a Killer!
Col.
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I've really been swaying on the side of modern. Until I got the 955 back on the trails I had been riding a Norco Faze. Great bike, but something just never felt right.
I've been searching the forums about putting disc's on a 857 but can't find much other than the Hammerhead, which you obviously can't get anymore. Does anyone know if something like the A2Z or Brake Therapy set ups would work on this frame. If I can get the discs onto this frame then the Norco will be stripped the day the new frame turns up.
To be honest I don't know a huge amount about the 857, so I am pretty exited. I have friends with a 957 and 857, but sadly they don't see the trail too often.
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My 856 is going modern XTR but with M970 V's 8)
I am actaully finding it cheaper and easier to source bits than A1 quality retro gear ... :o
I put a use ti post on the retro Marin and although I got a good price on it I have seen them at £70 :o :o
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I'm not a current x57 owner, so the following is not definitive...........
but, the 857 frame that I had for a while did have two tapped holes in the left dropout.
These were not to ISO Disc brake standard spacing, but maybe could be used with an adaptor.............I believe that PRO~FLEX were toying with the idea of disc brakes but never delivered.
The upside of an x57 for me would be that allegedly it'll take a 52 tooth front cog and associated derailleur, which would make it a V. Fast Street Warrior. my XP-X can't hack that big a front cog, the derr fouls the Suspension arm.
I think some of the best PRO~FLEX's I have seen have been the original frame with everything else updated to the best of modern technology. I think it just goes to show how far ahead of their time they were!
(Then again maybe the frames irrelevant? Discuss............) <GRIN>
Col.
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To be honest, I am not sure a lot of the latest frame technologies necessarily make for a better bike. I know after I got back onto proflex it just felt right compared to what I had been riding.
Its not like the high forward pivot has become redundant as there is still companies using it.
As long as I can get discs onto the rear, I'll build this up completely with modern parts and I am sure it will be every bit as good, and probably more fun to ride, as any modern bike I have had.
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yep - can be done on an 857 - relatively straight forward - here's mine. It had a dog bone shaped piece round the other side for the bolts to clamp into.
(http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/2170/857waybig002medium.jpg)
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So, it turns out after a bit more talking that the frame is actually an 856. Probably suits me more as I have the shock mount working to take an air shock from my work on the 955. Looks like a later model 856 with the gusset under the head tube. I'll still try to get discs working on this, any thoughts on the A2Z?? Long term I will get one of my swingarms modified to have a disc tab welded on..
(http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k316/sammydogg/bike/Proflex856.jpg)
(http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k316/sammydogg/bike/Proflex856_2.jpg)
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Looks like Christmas has come early... :)
Chris
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I'm not sure I am going to be allowed to build it before Christmas. :-\
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Sweet. Could there be a few more somewhere out there waiting for one of us to find and unwrap the bubble packing? Maybe even an Oz!!!
Thunderchild
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Sweet. Could there be a few more somewhere out there waiting for one of us to find and unwrap the bubble packing? Maybe even an Oz!!!
Thunderchild
I have heard rumors of a few people in Melbourne and Sydney with a shed full of Proflex and girvin stuff that has never been used. As far as I know though these collections don't go into the K2 realm. Seems that when Proflex pulled the plug over here a few lucky people bought up masses of frames.
I also know of two, brand new never used 953's in a shop in Tasmania. Unfortunately they are not for sale, well not at a nice price anyway. But it does show there is some new stuff floating around waiting to be found. There would have to be some Oz's in random sheds somewhere, the question is how to find them.
I've still got the feelers out for a 957 (or 956, 857). I would love to pic up one of them in new condition, which is what I thought I has scored this time around.
Onto the issue of disc brakes, I don't think an A2Z adapter will work given the varying thickness off the dropout a different points, so I am sending one of my swingarms off for an adapter to be welded to the frame. Slightly more expensive than the bolt up option, but I think better in the long term.
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Hey!
I'm coming into this conversation a bit late, but I must say that I really like vintage XTR, and have it on almost all of my bikes (M950/952 series). The parts often go cheap on eBay, and often in new/NOS condition.
I'm psyched because I just picked up the 956LE frame from the refinisher on Thursday...he repolished the frame, clear powferciated it once, airbrushed on all new graphics, and then powdercoated it again. Doesn't quite look brand new, but very very close.
I'll soon be offtering up for sale possible one, maybe two 20" (Way Big) 856 frames with forks (one silver in good condition, one red in very good condition). Anyone interested?
- Doug :-)
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Doug,
I am keeping my eye out for old XTR, but whatever I find will be stored for the 955. I intend on getting the weld repaired on that one. I'll have the 955 retro, the 856 modern, and if I ever get the rear end of the 855 repaired, well it will go Single Speed. At the very least the frame will look nice on the wall behind the BBQ.
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I could be interested in a Way Big 856 - depending on dimensions (not sure what they are).
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Got the frame today, not the one above, but a later 856 without the canti holes in the seat tube. Came from a different source and still in the bubble wrap. I'll put pictures up tomorrow.
Still talking to the guy with the other frame about a swingarm, seat stay, ODS shock, pivot kit and a dropouts. Once the swing arm turns up, hopefully this week, I'll get it sent off for brake tabs to be added.
For those who have done the sealed bearing converstion, does any modification to the actual frame need to be done? Or just reeming of the swingarm?
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Took some photos of the new frame today, light wasn't real good looks like we have a lot of dust in the air again, although nothing like the dust storm of a few weeks back.
The 856
(http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k316/sammydogg/bike/856.jpg)
The 855 and the 856, shows pretty well how the frame evolved over two years.
(http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k316/sammydogg/bike/855_955.jpg)
I'd read a bit on here about off centre pivot holes. I know the 955 I have is pretty well centered, turns out the 855 is different. It is centred on one side but well off on the other. Probably explains why I have been through so many pivot bolts on the 855 while never needing to replace the one one the 955. Obviously the pivot on the left is the 855, to the right the 856.
(http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k316/sammydogg/bike/pivots.jpg)
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The other difference between them is that the 855 is a Large and the 856 is a Medium.
Col.
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With the sizing, I always thought the bikes were a little big but was under the impression they were mediums. Found out a few weeks what their size actually was.
Pretty happy to now actually have one in the correct size. Still funny that the seat tube measurement is the same as the large.
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Thanks to Willie_B being willing to buy this off eBay and post it out of the US, I know have a shiny new swingarm on the way to complete the frame set and allow the build to start.
(http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k316/sammydogg/bike/swingarm.jpg)
Pretty happy right now. The bike is getting a full XTR build with Ritchey Carbon WCS parts and the fox float in the rear off my 955. I'm hoping everything comes together in the new year so I can ride it at the next 24hour event in February.
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Finally started assembly tonight. Its looking like coming in at a tad under 11kg's which is pretty good for an old bike if you ask me. Lighter than the doner bike (Norco Faze 1) thats for sure.
Swingarm was put in the post on monday for the return trip from the welders, so hopefully it is here in the next day or so. Obviously it still needs the cranks and I'm going a 1x9 setup with an MRP guide.
Will be interesting to see how it rides. Hopefully after all of this it isn't a pig. If it runs sweet I may just treat it to a new rear shock.
Appologies for the bad photo, its late here so it was the only place with light. Completed pics will be up on the weekend.
(http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k316/sammydogg/bike/proflex.jpg)
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Better photo now its day time. Just waiting for the postman (who will probably never come, at least it feels like he will never come) and then I am set to go.
(http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k316/sammydogg/bike/p1.jpg)
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Looking good! ;) ;)
I have heard you can get these down to 23 lbs.
Terry
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I'm going to change the tyres as well. That should loose me a bit more weight (not that the objective of this was to make a super lightweight bike).
I haven't really gone for any stupidly light parts and I still look like coming out at below 24 pounds.
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Nice!
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yep looking good there
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Cranks, chain device and swingarm are now on.
The disc tab looks really good, actually to the untrained it probably looks like its always been there. I need so spray the strut black though so the rear end looks better. That can wait though.
I'll put a finished shot on tomorrow once the chain and rear mech are attached. Hopefully some new tyres as well just to set the whole thing off.
All I need is for the weather to cool down so I can ride. Its just over 40 degrees Celsius today and supposedly hotter tomorrow. Few fires around as well.
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A few shots of the disc tab.
(http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k316/sammydogg/bike/disc1.jpg)
(http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k316/sammydogg/bike/disc2.jpg)
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A very nice job on the disc tab, talk us through how you got it fitted?
Did you make the disk tab or buy one and cut it to fit?
How did you ensure it was positioned correctly before welding?
Did you have to tell the welder to do/use anything special?
What did it cost?
My XP-X (856) weighs 11.5Kg in stock form with Magura HS11's and skinny tyres but I want to fit disks and bigger wheels for road use.
It's 4 deg C here in the UK! <GRIN>
Col.
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I cheat a lot on the disc tab, I can't take any credit for it, other than putting it in the post.
There is a place called grip sport (http://www.gripsport.com.au/) just outside of Melbourne that specialises in frame repairs and modifications. I've used them a few times before for other things. They tidies up my shock mount when I couldn't quiet get it right. I suspect if they did the mount from scratch it would be a lot better. Their tow ball mount DH bike carrier has proven to be worth its weight in gold over the years, even saved the car/bikes when backing into a tree.
Including postage and touching up the new bits paint wise,the disc tab set me back $200(Australian dollars).
From their website though,
Disc Brake mounts for non-disc frames.
Want to upgrade to Disc Brakes without buying a whole new bike?
We can make and fit fully-welded, International Standard disc mounts for just about any frame you can throw at us... hardtail, dual-suspension, Aluminium, CrMo & steel... for vertical dropouts (of course) and even for horizontal dropout/singlespeed frames!
Factory quality at a fraction of the price.
Go to our 'Photo Albums' for more pictures and information on our Disc Brake Mounts.
They use a jig to make sure everything lines up.
Not sure if it is cost prohibitive for you to post the parts around the world, but their work is worth it.
Yesterday hit 44 degrees Celsius, just when it couldn't get any hotter we got a southerly change and the temps dropped to 24 degrees in about 15 minutes.
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It took long enough, but finally the bike is complete. Pretty happy with how it has turned out, but I haven't had a chance to get out for a spin yet, that will happen on Australia Day.
The disc tab that Grip put on is a work of art (well I think so). It looks like it has always been there.
A few photos though.....
(http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k316/sammydogg/bike/new%20bike/proflexside2.jpg)
(http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k316/sammydogg/bike/new%20bike/proflexside.jpg)
(http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k316/sammydogg/bike/new%20bike/proflexdrive2.jpg)
(http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k316/sammydogg/bike/new%20bike/proflexdrive.jpg)
(http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k316/sammydogg/bike/new%20bike/proflexarm.jpg)
(http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k316/sammydogg/bike/new%20bike/proflexbrake.jpg)
(http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k316/sammydogg/bike/new%20bike/proflexfront.jpg)
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wow - that brings it bang up to date - what does it weigh all in?
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Just weighed it, 11.1kg's all up. I think that's about 24.4 pounds.
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That looks GREAT. The swingarm turned out real nice. Hope it rides as sweat as it looks.
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That looks GREAT. The swingarm turned out real nice. Hope it rides as sweat as it looks.
Thankyou for getting the swingarm for me, it wouldn't have happened if you hadn't bought it for me.
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Just weighed it, 11.1kg's all up. I think that's about 24.4 pounds.
Rocketship!!!! ;) ;) ;)
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Rocketship!!!! ;) ;) ;)
Got out and raced it today for the first time, in absolutely horrendous conditions. Bike did well, but with the pilot today it was anything but a rocketship.
1x9 worked awesome, although I did catch myself going for the left hand shifter on a few occasions. Still need to sort the pressure out on the rear shock, seems to be very easy to have too much or too little air in the shock.
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Wow, very nice! This group has to get a production run going of those rear shock adaptors...Callum, do I remember you saying that was something that's in the works for RDS?
- Doug :-)
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Here is a question for everyone.
I am periodically getting a knocking sound through the rear end. Sounds like the swingarm but I am not sure. It reminds me of the sounds my old monocoque norco dh bike made.
Any one got any suggestions as to it's cause? Does anyone else get the same noise?
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When I have had this it was the top of the shock rattling against the bolt that holds it i.e. the bolt was too narrow a diameter or the bushes were worn.
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Main Swingarm bolt loose? Bushings not seated yet?
I get a creak in my strut every once in a while when I don't have the shock tight.
Terry
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First thing I checked was the main swingarm bolt.
The loose bush makes sense. The bush on the shock is new but the main pin the bolt runs through is old. May need to check that. Mind you there doesn't feel like there is Ny slop or play in the rear end.
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maybe it's a Top-Out "Knock" on the shock? i.e it's fully extending without enough damping,
and as previuosly stated, check the shock top and bottom fixings, I had a knock on the cone end collet fixing on my XP-X when it was a bit loose.
Col.
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Very nice. Makes me think I want to do a 1x9 set-up. What is the tooth count on your chainring?
Thunderchild
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I'm running 32 teeth up front and the cassette is an 11/34. One of the new 11/36 cassettes would be nice.
Eventually I think I will run a 34 chainring on the front.
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Nice looking build.
Does the platform function work properly on the bike? Does it stop bobbing while remaining responsive from the terrain?
Also, what length of stem is that?
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Nice looking build.
Does the platform function work properly on the bike? Does it stop bobbing while remaining responsive from the terrain?
Also, what length of stem is that?
The back end is really quiet firm, no bobbing at all. When climbing it actually feels like a hardtail. That said, I am sending the shock away to be tuned specifically for the bike and my riding style (or lack thereof). Weighing up the options at the moment between two companies that tune fox shocks. I may buy a new shock and send it off to be tuned, just deciding at the moment on the best course of action. The suspension does work well though.
The stem is 110mm.
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Nice looking build.
Does the platform function work properly on the bike? Does it stop bobbing while remaining responsive from the terrain?
Also, what length of stem is that?
The back end is really quiet firm, no bobbing at all. When climbing it actually feels like a hardtail. That said, I am sending the shock away to be tuned specifically for the bike and my riding style (or lack thereof). Weighing up the options at the moment between two companies that tune fox shocks. I may buy a new shock and send it off to be tuned, just deciding at the moment on the best course of action. The suspension does work well though.
The stem is 110mm.
So you think the clunking is the shock?
There should be some kind of bottom-out bumper inside. Manitou says if you don't keep at least 50 psi in the platform chamber, you could damage the shock. My strut modification does the same as yours and I don't get any problems with mine.
One thing to check is the frame mounts. If the shock bushings are shifting during compression, it could clunk.
Terry
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Looks great! You're missing one last piece though:
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/deusexaethera/bikes/CIMG4077.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/deusexaethera/bikes/CIMG4075.jpg)
See those blue bolts in place of the brake studs? Yeah, just a little bling from the blokes at Hope. 8) You should get a pair in silver and ditch the zip-tie.
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Actually I will do that, hadn't seen those before. I got the hope cable guides elsewhere on the bike, but missed those.
thanks for posting that.
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Looks great! You're missing one last piece though:
See those blue bolts in place of the brake studs? Yeah, just a little bling from the blokes at Hope. 8)
It's the little blings that show you care! ;)
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hehehe...I had to read that three times before I noticed you said "blings" instead of "things". Well played, sir. 8)
Yep, I've thus far been lucky enough to get matching blue anodized accessories for this bike, like the skewer handles/nuts, cable guides, and ODI handlebar-grip clamps. It would be kinda cool if I could find blue-anodized derailleur pulleys and cable endcaps, but it's hard to beat Shimano's ball-bearing pulleys even if they are plastic.
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Here is a question for everyone.
I am periodically getting a knocking sound through the rear end. Sounds like the swingarm but I am not sure. It reminds me of the sounds my old monocoque norco dh bike made.
Any one got any suggestions as to it's cause? Does anyone else get the same noise?
Well, your chainline passes below the center of the swingarm pivot, so even with the SPV shock your pedaling forces are still trying to extend the suspension. There's something in the suspension that's loose, but otherwise held in place by gravity, and you're canceling-out the gravitational compression when you pedal hard.
If your main pivot bushings and strut bushings are anything like the ones I've used, they fit WAY too tight. (I had to lathe mine down a bit to get them to turn smoothly.) So it's almost certainly not them. I'm gonna agree with everyone else and blame it on the shock bushings. Lube them up with some Noleen suspension grease and see if it goes away.
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hehehe...I had to read that three times before I noticed you said "blings" instead of "things". Well played, sir. 8)
Yep, I've thus far been lucky enough to get matching blue anodized accessories for this bike, like the skewer handles/nuts, cable guides, and ODI handlebar-grip clamps. It would be kinda cool if I could find blue-anodized derailleur pulleys and cable endcaps, but it's hard to beat Shimano's ball-bearing pulleys even if they are plastic.
Try TorontoCycles.com
(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h287/torontocycles/Blue_11t_Slotted.jpg)
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Here is a question for everyone.
I am periodically getting a knocking sound through the rear end. Sounds like the swingarm but I am not sure. It reminds me of the sounds my old monocoque norco dh bike made.
Any one got any suggestions as to it's cause? Does anyone else get the same noise?
Well, your chainline passes below the center of the swingarm pivot, so even with the SPV shock your pedaling forces are still trying to extend the suspension. There's something in the suspension that's loose, but otherwise held in place by gravity, and you're canceling-out the gravitational compression when you pedal hard.
If your main pivot bushings and strut bushings are anything like the ones I've used, they fit WAY too tight. (I had to lathe mine down a bit to get them to turn smoothly.) So it's almost certainly not them. I'm gonna agree with everyone else and blame it on the shock bushings. Lube them up with some Noleen suspension grease and see if it goes away.
Yeh, check the shock bushings havn't ovalised and also check that they are rotating smoothly, (but that usually results in a creak rather than a clunk).
Also check the tightness of the strut to shock bolt, as I have had a clunk when that has come slightly loose.
Col.
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Wrapping a layer or two of plumber's Teflon tape around the inner bushing race might help too, by taking up some of the slack.
God only knows why they call it plumber's tape though, I've never seen a plumber actually use the stuff. Which is why I've always had to re-fix anything I've ever had a plumber work on. :-\
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What about your freehub??