K2 / Proflex Riders Group
General => Tech Forum => Topic started by: beeeerock on August 25, 2013, 10:52:11 pm
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I'm hoping someone can identify this bike... I've had if for quite a few years - but haven't been riding it. Events transpired to prevent me from using it right as I took possession - quite a few years ago - and I got into other things. Life is letting me get out again now, so I've pulled it out of the back of the garage to sort out.
Anyway, it came to me used. Fairly lightly used. Previous owner stripped it down and clear-coated the metal. Bomber Z1 shocks on the front. Race Face all over. He had built it to downhill, but this would have been before downhill bikes were really a specific design. I'm having trouble deciding when this would have been. Maybe early 2000's, or late 90's.
Front shocks are soft... I'll need to figure out if they need a rebuild or if it's just a matter of adjustment. I was riding a Rocky Mountain Hammer (no suspension of any kind!) when I got this one, so I have to admit to having little experience with shocks in general.
I can post the serial number if that would identify the actual model and year.
Thanks!
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1997 Proflex but since the previous owner stripped and changed parts, don't know what specific model.
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Try checking in and around all the nooks & crannys like cable stops and up inside the top of the shock mount to see if there is any trace of colour depends on how thorough the sand blaster or chemical peel was.
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Essentially it's a "9-Style" bike, also known as the '97 "World Cup" frame.
but as for the specific model. it could be a 956, 857. 957, or a 3000.
Original frame colour would pin it down, but pretty irrelevant as I am fairly sure the frames are identical in terms of material etc, but I have heard a rumour that 956's and 957's were made in the USA and others offshore. Anyone know better?
My punt is that it is a 957 and was originally polished Ally finish.
yes, serial number might help, you can leave off the last few digits if you like.
Col.
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Wow, quick responses! Wasn't sure if there was much activity on this forum, but glad to see it's alive (I run a photography forum and membership ebbs and flows - sometimes when the numbers drop I'm tempted to just shut it down... but it provides a home for those that stick around, so I keep it going for their benefit.).
The serial number under the crank shows RED paint. Serial number is H7H0118##. Does this narrow it down any further?
I'm assuming this bike never had that unusual front parallelogram suspension I've seen in some photos? Wouldn't want the geometry messed up by moving the forks back!! The front end feels a bit odd to me, but I think the shocks need to be stiffened up.
I'm a recreational cross country rider now. Nothing too daring anymore - I'm in my late 40's and don't want any more metal holding me together than I already have. Need to get to work on Monday to earn a living and support the family and all that... ;-) Is this a bike suitable for my use? Any particular issues I should be aware of, or wary of? If it is a '97, that's 9 whole model years newer than my retro Hammer which still rides great I discovered!
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Replying to myself, because I decided to surf Google images at lunch 8)
What I'm figuring out is that the carbon fibre (or so it appears) rear end is what points me at the models you've suggested.
The 857 seems to have been produced in red.
The back shock with the auxiliary oil reservoir (I assume) seems to me more common in photos of the 9 hundred series, but there doesn't seem to be a firm connection... except that 9 hundred isn't typically red.
I've noticed that the parallelogram fork design actually sets the wheel hub behind the forks. The Bomber's on mine put it a little ahead. So I'm guessing that swapping out the parallelogram system doesn't mess up geometry and the hub ends up at about the same location in both cases.
I'm going to guess that you'll say '1997 ProFlex 857' and maybe make a comment about whether the rear shock was also swapped out with the rest of the parts?
If it is an 857, I suppose that would disprove the rumour about offshore manufacturing?
I'll be interested to hear whether this is a keeper model or more of a money pit... ;)
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Well done Mr Beeeerock (that your Real name? <GRIN>)
You have solved most of your bike riddle!
Yes, you have followed my reasoning, the carbon swing arm restricts it to the model numbers I listed, (unless someone swapped it! LOL!)
If there's evidence of red paint then that rules out 956. 957 and 3000, so it's an 857 !
H7H serial number is also correct for a '97 857, (possibly late '97)
The NR-4 piggy back shock is the top of the range shock of the time and was fitted as standard to the 957 but was an upgrade option on the 857 as it normally has the NR-2.
Be aware that the first digit in most PRO~FLEX models means the component spec, i.e. higher number = better, middle number is nearly always a 5, and the last digit is the model year. most of that goes out of the window on later models with names and "thousand" number ranges. oh yeah and it's not a 900 series bike, it's an "x57" style! Ha ha.
Yes it would definately have had Noleen (was Girvin) Crosslink parralelogram forks as OE when new (unless bought as a frame! LOL!). at rest the hub sits pretty much in line with the head tube angle, but does tuck back slightly as it moves up to follow the ideosyncratic Girvin "J-Path" of enlightenment...........
As for the keeper question...............the x57 will make a good XC bike, but does have the geometry for a flatter rider position than is popular today. I'd heartily recommend it for a lily livered old fart like yourself (I am probably the same age, and have the same healthy regard for my well being..........<GRIN>)
The potential showstoppers on this bike are:
1) Pivot bearing kits- no longer made and just about available as New Old Stock on eBay, but rarely wear out if maintained and if really pushed a few clever souls on here have done needle bearing conversions on various models.
2) Rear shock - the lower cone and end bolt mounting is unique to PRO~FLEX and there are limited options for replacements, (RISSE etc) But again, the mechanical mad scientists on here have produced a number of adaptors to use modern eye 2 eye shocks.
Good luck with it and I'm sure plenty of others will pitch in with info as the Summer Holidays end, we're a relatively small community on here, but geographically huge, with expertise and a friendly willingness to help people out. Feel free to ask any more Q's
In the meantime here's some links to diagrams of the 9 series bike:
'97 957 & 857 Frame Assembly
http://idriders.com/proflex/resources/97_spc957.pdf (http://idriders.com/proflex/resources/97_spc957.pdf)
'97 957, 857, 757, Animal, & Beast Main Pivot Assembly
http://idriders.com/proflex/resources/97_spc957_pivot.pdf (http://idriders.com/proflex/resources/97_spc957_pivot.pdf)
'97 957, 857, 757, Animal, & Beast Strut Assembly
http://idriders.com/proflex/resources/97_spc957_strut.pdf (http://idriders.com/proflex/resources/97_spc957_strut.pdf)
oh and you'll need to check that you have the right coil spring weight on the rear for your weight:
http://idriders.com/proflex/resources/99spring_chart.pdf (http://idriders.com/proflex/resources/99spring_chart.pdf)
Best of Luck
Col.
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Thanks Colin, some very useful information condensed into one post.
Almost my real name... remove all the 'e's and you have it. It's a hold over from my garage band days as a 40 year old - someone at the office came up with it one day and wouldn't let it go... so might as well ride along! 8)
The logic of the naming (numbering) convention makes good sense. I had thought the carbon fibre swing arm was an indicator of a higher model, but evidently just a newer design and model year.
The '8' makes sense too, as it appears to be all Deore XT which I recall being pretty solid stuff back in the day. My '88 Rocky Mountain Hammer was straight Deore and I coveted the XT on my friend's bikes... ::)
My sense is that the bike was built, perhaps raced once or twice, then other interests intervened and the original owner sold it to get some cash. There is little evidence of any wear or abuse. I suspect he enjoyed the project more than the exercise...
What is the generally accepted method of maintaining ('lubricating', I suppose) the pivot bearing? I haven't come across a link for that anywhere yet.
I'm a relative lightweight, so doubt I'll wear that rear shock out anytime soon. I'd like to think I'm young and nimble enough to do so, but my wife would probably disagree...!
I should try to track down the original owner to see if he has the original front suspension around. But likely not, or he bought the frame only. Did they sell the frame only back then? He would have bought it new, based on the model year I'm quite sure.
Two other things that have come to light I'd like to ask about. Perhaps I should start a new thread... if so, let me know and I'll cut/paste into a new one...
1) I did some clean up and tuning last night. I gave it a few runs up and down the street and all worked smoothly. Then I tried a very steep bit of gravel (up) in the lowest gear, having to really crank up... the chain derailed. I put it back together, looked at the derailleur alignments and figured all was fine... tried again, same issue. On the asphalt, I can't put enough force into it to do the same thing... I just surge ahead. I found a comment somewhere that suggested the suspension travel in this sort of circumstance could cause the shift cable to tension. Is this a problem with the ProFlex line? I don't see any signs of wear on the cogs and it doesn't feel like a slip from worn parts... it just jumps off and I'm spinning air.
2) The Bomber Z1's are a mystery to me. Two adjustments on the top of each side - a little screw in the centre and a knurled 'nut' of a larger diameter. I think the little screws adjust the rebound and the outer nut pre-tensions the spring inside. But no idea if that's right or how much to adjust... or if backing them all the way off to start again (to make sure both sides are even) is going to result in something going 'sproooiiing'. The Marzocchi site is skinny on information for anything not relatively current. I'm assuming the "20% compressed when sitting on the bike rule" of thumb I've seen applies to front and back suspensions. I don't think I'm much more than that, if I'm even that far compressed... but they feel quite soft compared to modern shocks I've seen in the stores. No evidence of leakage and they function smoothly... just feel like there should be more resistance than there is. Plenty of travel - maybe they were built soft to use most of it? Just leaves me feeling like I'm going to get pitched over the bars if I ride down into a ditch or something. In comparison, the back end feels much stiffer.
I have to say I like this site so far... this bike is one of those oddball things that you either love or hate. An eclectic bike if I can dare use that word. Which pretty much fits my interests - my next project is a 1981 RX-7... because I love the unusual rotary engine! 8)
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Ha ha, good moniker Brock,
Yeh the carbon swing arm and pivot location were an evolution from the x55/x56 series of the previous two years, (which obviously evolved from the x54, x53, x52, x50 and the Offroad RF1 and 2)
Pivot lube instructions by member "OP"
http://idriders.com/proflex/tech/tech_op4.shtml (http://idriders.com/proflex/tech/tech_op4.shtml)
Also, look at the owners instruction book Pages 14 -15 mainly,
http://idriders.com/proflex/resources/98k2bike_manual.pdf (http://idriders.com/proflex/resources/98k2bike_manual.pdf)
I'd recommend buying a RK001 pivot bearing kit if you're planning on keeping the bike for the longer term and would maybe ensure it's saleability in the future.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/310721607665 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/310721607665)
The Crosslake price is no different to what they cost back in the day!
http://www.crosslakesales.com/m-28-k2.aspx (http://www.crosslakesales.com/m-28-k2.aspx)
Yes with good luck the shock should last a long time and can be rebuilt albeit at a cost by J6
https://j6shocks.com/Mountain_Bike_Services.html (https://j6shocks.com/Mountain_Bike_Services.html)
or you could buy a new one:
http://shop.noleenj6.com/category.sc;jsessionid=8B85DFEF5F968C6846DE9B530238EE3B.m1plqscsfapp02?categoryId=7 (http://shop.noleenj6.com/category.sc;jsessionid=8B85DFEF5F968C6846DE9B530238EE3B.m1plqscsfapp02?categoryId=7)
No I don't think the 857 frame was sold seperately, possibly the 957 was......previous owner probably just got fed up with the Crosllinks, (they are a " Marmite" fork, - love them or hate them).
It's your thread! but someone might help better on the Z1 Question on retroriders.
on the chain jump Q, my immediate thought was "worn chainring and/or stretched chain" so I 'd recommend a thorough check of that. Is it the right chain and right length?
The PRO~Flex's aren't notorious for either chain or cable shortening/lengthening during suspension movement, unless the cable route is very tight already?
If it's dropping off the inside of the granny ring then I wouldn't have thought it was cable induced. You're not crossing the chain heavily are you?
so, can't help on the Z1 Question.
and your mention of an RX-7 allows "Wankel" http://idriders.com/proflex/smf/index.php?action=profile;u=428 (http://idriders.com/proflex/smf/index.php?action=profile;u=428) to jump in and discuss all things Rotary with you.........come on guys! stop making it look like I'm the only live one on here! <GRIN>
Col.
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Always quite fancied a wankel myself,very interesting engines,lightweight,less moving parts and have been proven in endurance races. Equivalent to a 1.3 litre I think. Some garages won't touch them,afraid of the unknown.
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Sorry Col I'm alive but working off my iphone as land line is disconnected at the moment. I agree with all that Col has said though. As for Wankels, the older ones were prone to wearing the rota tips thus loosing compression and smoking. Probably sorted by now.
Chris
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Thank you for all the information... I've got some reading to do and should probably do a bit of a tear down to check things over.
Ah, the rotary! Yeah, the first ones in the late 60's and early 70's were real oil pumps. Apex seals were a problem and they burned oil like crazy. In spite of that, they still made plenty of power!
My '81 came to me around '89. I drove it for a while at that time, then put it into storage when other priorities in life came about. It's in great shape and the plan now is to clean it up enough to get 'collector plates' for it - meaning cheap insurance if used for pleasure only. I found a new engine (well, an engine rebuilt with new rotor housings) that I'll drop in too. If you've driven one of these things, you'll understand how different they are... light steering, very agile... they drive like nothing else I've been in. And that great rotary sound when you wind it up! The 12A engine was used in the first gen RX-7's, which had a displacement of about 1200 cc's. The end of the first generation and the second generation came with the 13B in various incarnations.
The story of taking it out of storage is here: http://www.nanson.org/wordpress/?p=61 (http://www.nanson.org/wordpress/?p=61)
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the ghost shifting may be cured by removing the cable stops at the swingarm and running the outer cable all the way through
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That's an interesting idea Kiwi... perhaps I should disconnect the rear shock and examine the full range of motion closely for a clue as to whether this is the problem or not. Thanks!
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That's an interesting idea Kiwi... perhaps I should disconnect the rear shock and examine the full range of motion closely for a clue as to whether this is the problem or not. Thanks!
its a problem that the x56 and x57 have,it solved the partial ghost shifting on my 756
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Correct, You can do a "Straight Thu" continuous gear cable outer run on the x55/x56 swingarm by removing the gold ferrules and throwing them in the bin like my LBS did without asking me, <Sigh>..................but I reverted mine to original as I found that the cable outer migrated rearwards and then actually did result in innaccurate shifting, which I had not had before or since.
On the x57, I think I'm correct in saying that the internal cable route is fixed in place and can't easily be removed?
Certainly that's the case on my 4000/x500/Oz's.
Col.
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1) I had a 92 Rx-7 and Mazda had the smoking issue worked out by then (and your 91) It was the Rx-2, and 4's that had a big problem. Loved the Rx-7. Hmmmm I was 25 when I bought it new so go a head and date me...LOL I was really anal about changing oil and did it every 1000 miles...hehe. One thing that was mentioned by ALL women who rode shotgun even from the gals the second owner would tool around with was they LOVED the "vibrating" seat..FWIW credit the revs on that Wankel!
2) regardless of the red paint under your BB...That "Made in USA" sticker near the BB was only on 957's as the 8's were made in Taiwan (I had a red 857 and "Made in Taiwan" sticker. I think the Al was T6 on the 9's and T5 on the 8's...could be wrong. I also think the '8 frames were then sent to USA and built up at Pro~flex HQ which was at the time somewhere on the East Coast before moving to Vashon Island WA where k2 Sports HQ was. The buyout prompted the move.
3) It's a good XC bike and climbs like a mule (good) from the "dig-in" effect from the suspension set up when in small/big. It bobbed a bit but then if you have good pedaling mechanics (circles vs squares) it's okay.
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The length of shifter cable at the BB is quite short and I'd say, quite tight. I've played with the adjustments and for the moment, the ghost shifting seems to have gone away. I'm going to leave things well enough alone until the problem manifests itself again.
I zap-strapped the brake cable to the shift cable down there, as the brake cable with the metal curved tube was catching my pedal... that annoyance is gone now too.
I've been looking more closely at the NR4 shock and see it has dampening on compression and rebound. Tightening the knob on the side seems to work on the compression motion as I can hear it hiss at the higher setting. The ring on the shaft at the top end is supposed to dampen the rebound as near as I can tell... according to this link: http://idriders.com/proflex/resources/97noleen_addendum.pdf (http://idriders.com/proflex/resources/97noleen_addendum.pdf) but I'm not sure that I can detect much of a difference. I suppose the first thing I need to do is determine what spring I have on the shock to confirm it suits my weight. It begs the question though... what are we looking for when setting up the shock for dampening?
As well, while playing with it I note that when activating it by leaning on it, I can feel almost a clunk caused by it not operating smoothly as the weight is applied. That is, I lean on it and there is no motion, until there is enough weight and it 'breaks loose' to begin moving. It's smooth enough when it moves, but it seems to require that threshold before moving. Is this normal? Now that I've found this in the shock, I'm thinking it's the subtle clunk I've felt through the bars and even the seat that I though might be a slightly loose head set bearing. Do I just live with this or is it a symptom of something else?
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I don't know about the clunk or whatever in the shock. Sometimes the are "sticky" if not ridden in a while...BTW do not lube or whatever to the shock shaft. Set the sag and giver her a go!
ooops I should read before I post....
Without spring on the shock turn the rebound knob all the way one way. Then compress the shaft and see what the rebound speed is. slow? or fast? Turn it all the way the other way and it should be fast? or slow? No difference or no rebound at all means shock service. Most have it in between if you are doing just XC stuff. fast rebound is great for washboard type surface, slow rebound is better for dips. Hope this helps.
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Quote:
"2) regardless of the red paint under your BB...That "Made in USA" sticker near the BB was only on 957's as the 8's were made in Taiwan (I had a red 857 and "Made in Taiwan" sticker. I think the Al was T6 on the 9's and T5 on the 8's...could be wrong. I also think the '8 frames were then sent to USA and built up at Pro~flex HQ which was at the time somewhere on the East Coast before moving to Vashon Island WA where k2 Sports HQ was. The buyout prompted the move."
No sorry it's a 857.
The sticker you are referring to is the standard metal plaque sticker that all '57's had when new. My 857, 757 and 957 all have the same 'sticker'. My 857, which is in near new condition, also has a small paper white sticker saying 'made in Tiawan' which is underneath the bottom bracket. I've heard people say the grade of aluminium was different but the '97 sales brochure says they are the same pro-gram aluminium. Interestingly it also shows a frame set in polished finish with 857 decals on it..
But..
Your bikes frame no starts H7H....
My 857 starts H7E.... Which would suggest yours is a later release than mine. I've also checked the frame numbers on my other '8' model frames..
856 - H5E....
856 way big - H6I.....
Can't reach my 757 frame to check that.
But here's the thing. My 957's frame number starts KU6G..... Totally different number setup. So red paint and H prefix say 857 to me.
The NR4 shock was a upgrade that could be bought from new for the 857 or added later on maybe.
Anyone else have a 957 they can check my number theory out on?
Chris
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But I must add, which ever it is, they both ride exactly the same and are a superb cross country bike. Light, fast and rewarding. And different from anything else you will see on the trail. Enjoy it.
Chris
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Yes, both my 857's have the "Made in the USA" sticker, one on the seat tube and one on the down tube.
Serial numbers are H7A.... and H7B.....
The other items in my "PRO~FLEX" museum (as the Mrs calls it!) are:
962 H1A
856 H5D (not certain if this is a x55 or a x56)
857 H7A
857 H7B
XP-X H8D
4000 H8J
if the serial numbers are of any use then the second digit seems to progress roughly in line with year of production?
and maybe 3rd digit is Month? anyone got one higher than "L"? ???
so that's why I'm speculating H7H is a late 857
but that doesn't always seem to define model, maybe just year of production?
(see similarity of XP-X and 4000se ser no's!)
and then of course, it all goes to pot on the Carbon frame bikes! LOL!
Col.
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Oh yes the carbon frames go from stamped to hand engraved to scratched in to nothing!
As long as its carbon that's all that counts with those !
Chris
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I don't know about the clunk or whatever in the shock. Sometimes the are "sticky" if not ridden in a while...BTW do not lube or whatever to the shock shaft. Set the sag and giver her a go!
ooops I should read before I post....
Without spring on the shock turn the rebound knob all the way one way. Then compress the shaft and see what the rebound speed is. slow? or fast? Turn it all the way the other way and it should be fast? or slow? No difference or no rebound at all means shock service. Most have it in between if you are doing just XC stuff. fast rebound is great for washboard type surface, slow rebound is better for dips. Hope this helps.
I'll back off the spring tensioning 'nut' and observe what the two adjustments do... and IF they 'do'... ;-)
As for the stickiness... the shock feels perfectly smooth once in motion and there doesn't appear to be any leakage or buildup of gunge at the limits of the shaft. There just seems to be an inordinate amount of pressure required to break from static friction to kinetic friction if you know what I mean. The result feels like a bit of a knock in something connected to the frame somewhere, which I had attributed to a marginally loose bearing - but couldn't find anything with slop. The shock is my best guess right now.
Perhaps I'll find something to narrow it down further when the spring is completely loose.
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I have a Nr2 that does exactly the same. It could be that the seal has gone a bit hard or the oil in the shock gets a bit sticky when the nitrogen has gone. A re gas with nitrogen may cure it or its probably a rebuild with new seals. Worth trying a re gas first as these are old shocks that have been sitting round for a few years.
Chris
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I have a Nr2 that does exactly the same. It could be that the seal has gone a bit hard or the oil in the shock gets a bit sticky when the nitrogen has gone. A re gas with nitrogen may cure it or its probably a rebuild with new seals. Worth trying a re gas first as these are old shocks that have been sitting round for a few years.
<potentially stupid question> Is this something a local bike shop should be able to do (re-gas), or am I sending it away somewhere? I could hear the 'why would you want to repair something that old' in the voice of the guy I called to ask... and he couldn't do the gas. A second opinion on the procedure (if required) probably makes sense... ;-) </potentially stupid question>
Do you feel the 'clunk' or 'knock' through the seat and handle bars when you ride yours, or does yours simply exhibit the stickiness when you manually work the shock by leaning on the bike?
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I took the shock off and used another as I'm lucky to have a spares bin. The shock would stay 'locked' until you either pushed down really hard on it or you hit a large bump. Basically making the bike suspensionless over all smaller bumps. The freeing off of the shock would feel like a 'jolt' and then it was smooth, but there wasn't a metallic clunk at all. Check the shock bushes aren't worn as they would get a hard time if the shock wasn't working properly.
The re-gas can be done by any motorcycle or car suspension specialist. It's not expensive and is simply injecting fresh nitrogen into the shock.
Chris
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Colin, I'll "concede"... :-[ the red paint and serial numbers are really dead giveaways. The frames though I think were made of different aluminum the 9 being the T6000 and the 857 frames of T5000 and the 8's did have a made in USA sticker on them. Mine was higher up above the swingarm. I had to dig up an old picture as I don't have the 8 anymore. Yet I could have sworn I remember a "made in Taiwan" sticker on the bottom of the headtube. I'm just trying to sift my brain from what I remember back in the late 80's about the 8's and 9's.
I do remember some of the serial number "identities" with the Oz though.
Back to servicing the shock - - it is easy if you know what you are doing. I've heard stories of the shaft or body being shot off like a rocket. Recharging an NR-* is way over my head, yet they are easy if you know how to do it.
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Thanks guys, while the idea of converting the shock into a rocket launcher does sound like more fun than a potato cannon, I don't have a spare to indulge myself in this adventure... 8)
I should note that the resistance before the travel occurs isn't much... just more than my engineer's OCD brain can accept as being right! ::) It's not really a metallic clunk as much as it is a feeling that there's knock in there that doesn't belong. Think 'worn ball joints' and how that feels through your steering wheel. I can't find any worn parts to blame, so I'm still leaning towards that rear shock telegraphing through the frame. I tried finding bumps to run the back wheel over last night while out on my ride (picking a smooth path for the front) and *thought* the knock could be blamed on the back end of the bike. But not 100% sure... the trail was too bumpy to find perfectly smooth lines for the front end and still be able to swerve enough to run the back over a rock or root.
I think I'll do what I should have done right at the start - take the bike to a good shop and have their tech examine it for anything that doesn't seem right. Asking you guys to diagnose remotely by description isn't really fair!
Sounds like I must have an 857 with the upgraded rear shock. No question it's an unusual specimen and I've seen a few people out riding giving it a second glance. Running in stealth mode with no paint or decals makes it a bit of a curiosity! ;D
I've put about 40km of single track trails on it since pulling it out of storage in August. I'm getting used to how the front end sometimes tries to pitch me over the bars like a horse pulling up at a jump and like that I run out of grunt on the steep technical climbs before the back end begins to slip. The climbing ability is what has impressed me most so far!
After so many years off the saddle, it's nice to see that it really is like riding a bike... ;)
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Essentially it's a "9-Style" bike, also known as the '97 "World Cup" frame.
but as for the specific model. it could be a 956, 857. 957, or a 3000.
"World Cup" frames have the main rear suspension pivot behind the bottom bracket. That's what my 756 has. The ones with the pivot in front of the bottom bracket have a different name, but the name escapes me at the moment. If I had my dad's 857 handy I could just look at it, but alas...
EDIT: Ah. They're "Expert Series" frames.
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/deusexaethera/bikes/CIMG4024.jpg) (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/deusexaethera/media/bikes/CIMG4024.jpg.html)
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Thanks for the correction Fyrestormer, I don't know what made me call it a "world cup" frame! I should know it's the x55/x56 that's the "world cup" frame!
Yes, it's a "9-style" frame, I can only blame my imminant "Half Century" for my previous delusion! <GRIN>
Col.
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Be warned if you take it to a local bike shop they will probably just say its too old and not worth looking at... It happens a lot!
Chris
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I can't count well so that would be 30 ??? ;)
Chris
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Be warned if you take it to a local bike shop they will probably just say its too old and not worth looking at... It happens a lot!
;D Oh yeah, I'm prepared and actually somewhat expecting that! The bike industry is one of the worst I've seen for built-in obsolescence! However, there are a couple of good shops here that I have connections with outside of bicycles, so I have reasonable expectations I'll get an answer that is more than a brush off or initiation of a sales pitch if I find the right person. I actually had a phone conversation with one, to see how busy they are, and was told that the Z1 forks on the front should still be rebuildable if they need it :o so that was a good start I thought...!
On a positive note, I *think* the back NR-4 is moving a little better now that I've made it work a bit... so maybe it was simply sticky from lack of use. As I noted above, it's more about being OCD about mechanical things that made me note and complain about the stickiness in the first place... ;) I suspect most people would just ride and not notice, or ride and not care...!
All in all, I'm getting to know how it handles and am getting more aggressive in my style. Not exactly riding like a kid, but not like an old fart either... I'm liking it as I hoped! At this point, the only thing missing is a set of disk brakes. Not worth retrofitting IMHO, but nice to dream about. I rode my daughter's Specialized the other day (way too small, but I had to try it anyway) and really liked how the brakes felt. Given that disk or rim brakes are equally able to lock the wheel and skid the tire, you wouldn't think it should make a difference, but I really thought the disks stopped me better... ::) Whatever the reason, it's probably connected to the same *reality* that red cars are faster than all other colors offered for that model...
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Since it relates to the rides I've taken to test the bike, I'm going to pretend this is close enough to on-topic for posting... ;D
I found Endomondo for my phone and have been using it to track the walks and rides we take in the evening to keep the dog from mauling us. I ride, wait for my wife who jogs. Dog runs back and forth. So it's a bit stop and go for me, but better than not riding at all...
For anyone curious about what the riding is like around here, this link shows the Endomondo map, air photo etc...
http://www.endomondo.com/workouts/240820222/12026433 (http://www.endomondo.com/workouts/240820222/12026433)
This part of the world is a bit of a destination for mountain bike tourism... great terrain and plenty of trails. Downhill at Sun Peaks Resort 45 minutes away. It's actually shameful that I was off my bike as long as I was... :-[
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Colin, I'll "concede"... :-[ the red paint and serial numbers are really dead giveaways. The frames though I think were made of different aluminum the 9 being the T6000 and the 857 frames of T5000 and the 8's did have a made in USA sticker on them. Mine was higher up above the swingarm. I had to dig up an old picture as I don't have the 8 anymore. Yet I could have sworn I remember a "made in Taiwan" sticker on the bottom of the headtube. I'm just trying to sift my brain from what I remember back in the late 80's about the 8's and 9's.
[/quote
This is a reply Shovelon gave to me a short while ago about the difference between alloys used on the 857 & 957. The shiney bike is the 957 and painted is 857. There is a lot more really good info in the thread.
Chris
:::
From the conversation I had with a former K2 employee, and now Easton employee, the 1997 shiney bikes were always 6061 alloy, and the painted ones were always 7005. Easton liscensed the 7005 chemistry real cheap to Asia, so the painted ones were produced in Asia and assembled in the US.
To offset the cost of the shiney bikes, the material was 6061 and drawn by Easton for Proflex, then fabed and welded, then heat treated. Easton would not allow domestic production of 7005, or maybe the cost was outrageous.
It is my guess that the shiny bikes had extensively butted tubes, and somewhat lighter than the painted ones.
This is all of the x57 seriies I am refering to. In 1997, developement of the Evo series was underway, and in 1998 all bikes were 7005 alloy. Whether all of the Evo series was Easton origin I don't know.
I believe the World cup series was all US made.
:::
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Be warned if you take it to a local bike shop they will probably just say its too old and not worth looking at... It happens a lot!
Chris
I usually find that offering them money for their services is sufficient motivation. ;D
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Well, I actually did take it to a bike shop. Turns out, one of the guys there used to be a factory rider for ProFlex back in the day. Once we got past the small talk we had a look at the bike itself.
It would appear that the clunk I've felt in the seat and handle bars that was attributed to the rear NR-4 shock being a little sticky as it begins travel is actually the shock travelling back to the uncompressed position without enough dampening. So instead of releasing smoothly, it releases until it comes to an abrupt stop. My bad for checking the action without simulating a release of all the load on the shock! What does this suggest? Nitrogen charge required? Too much pre-tensioning of the spring? I note that I can set the dampening to a point where I can hear it hiss, but I'm still getting the clunk at the travel limit on decompression. And perhaps the hiss is the compression dampening and not the rebound...
After admiring the overall condition, the comments made were:
- it was an amazing state of the art bike in it's time.
- it's time was 1997!
- it would look good hung on the wall.
- it's a bit of a death trap compared to what the technology offers today.
I can understand the 'death trap' comment... certainly the wheelbase is short and the riding position puts you low and forward. Going into sharp dips makes me feel I'm going to get pitched over the bars, like the rider of a horse that decides at the last second not to make the jump!
Other than the shock action, it was given a clean bill of health...
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We (Chris) told you they'd condemn it and try and sell you something new ! <GRIN>
Although it sounds like you got a pretty sensible reception and discussion from the LBS guy.
Have you worked out what the spring rate of the Coil is?
In a perfect world it would have something like "NB2-xxx" printed on it, or maybe less likely NB175-xxx"
where NB2 means 2" stroke and 175 means 1.75" stroke
and xxx is the lb/inch compression
Don't sweat the NB figure, but the xxx needs to be right for your weight.
Rider weight in Lbs/Kg Spring Rate Part No.
90-130 40-60 250in/lbs NB2-250
120-160 55-75 300in/lbs NB2-300
150-190 70-85 350in/lbs NB2-350
180-220 80-100 400in/lbs NB2-400
210-250 95-115 450in/lbs NB2-450
Refer to the Spring arate chart
http://idriders.com/proflex/resources/99spring_chart.pdf (http://idriders.com/proflex/resources/99spring_chart.pdf)
Otherwise, maybe the damping is not working good enough, have you taken the shock off and checked it with the spring removed?
Col.
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Haha yes I've been told mine would look good hanging on a wall as well. I reply yes they do, that's why I have 4 hanging on my wall and 3 more leaning against it! But you don't appreciate just how good they look until you ride one! That ex racer has obviously gone soft in his old age lol.
Chris
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That ex racer has obviously gone soft in his old age lol.
Yes, except he's still young enough to be my kid, technically... which makes me even older! :o
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Refer to the Spring arate chart
[url]http://idriders.com/proflex/resources/99spring_chart.pdf[/url] ([url]http://idriders.com/proflex/resources/99spring_chart.pdf[/url])
Otherwise, maybe the damping is not working good enough, have you taken the shock off and checked it with the spring removed?
Yes, you're right, I should look into the spring rate itself, as well as whether it seems to be dampening properly or not. I will do so in the next few days. Thanks!
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Haha yes I've been told mine would look good hanging on a wall as well. I reply yes they do, that's why I have 4 hanging on my wall and 3 more leaning against it! But you don't appreciate just how good they look until you ride one! That ex racer has obviously gone soft in his old age lol.
Chris
Hmmm, far too extensive "wall leaning" and "wall hanging" going on in the Simmonds stable as well............................
........but have been for quite a few off roaders on the 4000 with my Bro' in the Chilterns and wild fruit foraging trips here in Northants and regular road runs on the XP-X, speaking of which, due to go for one in 15 minutes time! Hope to get some "Bullaces" (wild plums) on this trip!
No progress on the Oz rebuilds but planned (honest!) for this winter!
Col.
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Wall art is how I like to think of it. At least until I build them all and then they become moving art!
With my house extension coming to an end I'm hoping to get out more but at the moment kitchen comes first. Having said that I will be out at 8.30am tomorrow getting my mountain loop in before I start laying a new floor!
My OZ is 50% built all the parts are there. As soon as I get chance it will be built! I so want to ride it!!
Colin and my self swoped frames earlier this year so we both have OZ builds on the go.
Chris
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Well, I had a friend from out of town come by - a very serious rider, younger than me - and we got talking about bikes. When he heard I was riding the 857 his eyes got big and he asked if I was crazy. "It's a death trap" was what he said. Second time in a week or so I've heard that! First time from the factory rider at the bike shop, who should know... :o Again the reasoning was the the geometry and seating position. Recognizing that I've felt that it would chuck me over the bars if given half a chance, I started wondering if I was crazy.
Bottom line, I stumbled on an end of season deal on a 2013 Giant Trance X1 in a moment of weakness... (http://www.giant-bicycles.com/_generated/_generated_us/bikes/models/images/2000/2013/Trance_X_1.jpg)
I have to admit, I do feel way more secure on the Giant and I'm going faster both up and down hills. With more confidence. I don't like admitting that, especially on this forum, but I suppose there should have been some advancements in 16 years!!! ???
Not sure what I'll do with the 857 now. I've got to sort out that rear suspension issue just to satisfy my own curiosity. After that... not sure. Maybe sell it, maybe make a nice frame for it and find a wall large enough to hang it on... ::)
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Death trap! Snort, guffaw!
Been riding my death trap since 1995. I have crashed and burned many times on this and other mountain bikes and a lot of road bikes. Entirely due to my enthusiasm, not any of the bikes. There was talk about the "backwards fork" but that is an illusion since the wheel position is the same as a telescopic fork. The path of the axle in compression isn't a lot different than the path of telescoping forks deflecting back in the day. Early on there was a problem with the pinning of the fork crown to the steer tube that was resolved after I wasted two of them on stairs and talked to some reps. have had no problems that could be blamed on the design since. I have changed the riding stance from the road bike crouch to a more upright one with different components for more comfort in my advanced years. Anyone, including me, going otb was primarily from not powering through an obstacle.
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Oh well that was always going to happen I suppose, no surprise there. If you've ridden Proflexs since new they don't feel old or wrong in any way, but they are old bikes. Things have moved on in terms of geometry and suspension and compared to modern bikes they're always going to feel a lot more committed. You pays your money you makes your choice as they say.
I did my 16 mile loop this morning which takes in all surfaces. Road, gravel, forestry track, mud etc and loved it. It rained hard for the last 10 mile but my 857 handled brilliantly. Fast and light. But that's the difference. I've been riding only proflexs since '97 and so they feel right to me. I never experience any of the bad traits other people talk about because my riding style has developed with the bike and the handling is second nature to me. But everyone is different, it's all good.
Enjoy your new toy
Chris
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Hi folks
Death Trap
Sounds more like operator error to me
Weight transfer is the issue here older 90's mountain bikes were all about climbing whilst on the bike weight forward to keep front wheel on the trail rider forward.
More modern MTBikes are set up for a more downhill style with the riders weight to the rear as the weight will transfer when you brake that's why bigger better brakes are on the front.
Watch out wilst TRYING to pedal uphill whilst sitting on downhill bikes as you will land on your ass.
It's a case of different tools for different jobs
Bet the DEATH TRAP accusers have never used a cyclocross bike.
Pete
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Indeed, cyclocross rocks. I rod a bit of that during the NW winters when the urge to get muddy was strong. Also rode trails on a fixed gear road bike and smoked the guys on mtb's on smooth tracks between the twisties.
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Well, I'd be reluctant to suggest Operator Error to either of these guys... as I said, the first was a ProFlex factory rider on the race circuit back in the day. He sang the bike's praises too, but made it clear that the newer designs brought improvements in many areas. The other guy has been around long enough to know as well. He's been riding his $6k Nomad for some years, and used to take it apart and hide the pieces around his house if he left for the weekend. He invested more in his bike than his car... now that's a bicycle love affair... ;D
Don't get me wrong, I like the bike and I'll likely keep it AND ride it until someone offers a price I simply can't refuse (doubtful that will happen!). While I haven't been riding much in the last few years, I was keen and eager in the days before ProFlex. My first ride (still have it, looking stock!) was this one: http://forums.mtbr.com/vintage-retro-classic/1988-rocky-mountain-hammer-719531.html (http://forums.mtbr.com/vintage-retro-classic/1988-rocky-mountain-hammer-719531.html) (not my thread, just the same model and year). I bought it new and rode the snot out of it. Then I added Rock Shox and rode it some more. If you can ride something like that and not be left in the dust, you might have a reasonable skill level, so I'm not a newbie, just rusty and old. :'(
When I get on the 857, the first thing I notice is I feel like I'm another two feet higher from the ground than I'm used to. My weight is quite far forward as has been noted (although the Rocky has me fairly forward too). Wheel base feels really short. I can turn on a dime. Climbing is pretty solid and the front wheel stays down. Don't have the ratios to climb trees, but that's not the fault of the bike. I power out on the really steep stuff before the wheel gets uncontrollably loose. What makes me nervous is downhill that isn't just easy cruising. Hard braking sets the front down further than I'm comfortable with, even with the Z1's cranked pretty tight (my questions here have been suspension related, trying to dial in something that doesn't scare me). The ride height and short wheelbase makes it more noticeable! And hitting a boggy spot at speed on a downhill, or a deep short dip means I'd better be back from my seat or I'm going over the bars. I've so far learned to anticipate this behavior, but it doesn't mean I consider it a 'feature' if you know what I mean... ;D I'm tall, with long legs, so perhaps my body proportions aren't optimum for this bike.
The new one has a longer wheelbase by quite a bit. Different fork angle. Certainly more brakes with the disks than I've ever had before. Lower ratios for the climbs. I thought I'd be lifting the front end, but in fact I can go up steeper loose pitches better than with the 857. And that's without using the 'Talus' setting or whatever they have it labeled... it drops the front end an inch or so on the fly, for better climbing - or so goes the hype. I have yet to feel like I'm in danger of going over the bars and in general feel more under control going faster under tougher conditions. I wouldn't have expected this much of a difference, but it's real. And the difference SHOULD exist! No matter how much you like your <insert car model here> from that era, it won't stack up to the equivalent today and absolutely shouldn't be able to. Those differences are why I like my old Alfa Spider - the steering is heavy, it doesn't really perform that well... but it's fun and turns heads! Technology carries us forward and I don't think there's any harm in admitting it.
You won't find me on a cyclocross bike, but then, everyone finds their own niche.
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You'd be amazed at what a skinny tire bike will do in the sloppy stuff riding 'cross. Once upon a time I rode track and was a cat 3 roadie before getting the mtb bug. Early mtb with no suspension at the ski resorts was very hairy to be sure and was asked to leave for my exuberant pass through multiple flights of stairs. I really really like stairs. Some of our urban rides involved no dirt at all but left a trail of blood and alloy that is still the stuff of legend. I just adapt to whatever I'm riding.
Alfa? Thrashed my 76 GTV for years and still remember that little screamer at full song. The present automotive dinosaur is a 64 Fairlane with some upgrades to stop it because of the upgrades to make it go.
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No one will argue that things haven't progressed since the birth of Proflex, that's plain obvious. Proflex were there at the beginning of full suspension and the fact that they still cut it today is testament to how good they were when first designed. You might not connect with the riding position and thats fine but plenty of others do.
The 'Death Trap' comment is plain stupid. Your personal 857 might well be a death trap and just because you cant get on with it doesn't means all Proflexs are the same. I ride all year round in all weather conditions and mostly proper off road and never feel I'm riding a death trap. Crazy. Taking a 16 year old bike with a worn out shock into a modern bike shop and asking their opinion is bound to get a negative response. What were you expecting? At my LBS they called the lads in to have a look at the quality of my bike as it always in top condition. A death trap certainly not.
Proflexs have a committed riding position because of the era they came from and the fact they were designed as cross country race bikes. That need a very physical riding style and you have to move around on the bike. These are retro bikes that in the right hands still kick ass today. You either get it or you don't.
Enjoy your new ride, because that's what it's all about - enjoyment -
Sell your Proflex and except that it wasn't for you. But just because you didn't get on with it doesn't make All Proflexs death traps.
Chris
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IMHO pro-flex's are a love affair,you either love em or you hate em. Some of us have had them from new & in those days they was the bo##ox and we don't see the need to spend thousands on a new steed. My friend has a Carbon cube which he broke after 3 weeks to me that's a death trap costing £2700. Bitd I broke the shock mount off my 552,took it back to the shop to be faced with jez Avery grinning from ear to ear saying I ain't broke one there yet only to show me his pro-flex with a sheared head tube,yet i still ride a pf.As for geometry the pf is a xc bike,short for the twisty stuff,short rear for climbing and low slung for fast firetrail stuff,what racing was all about bitd.now days people rely on the bike to much to get them through a ride. How many of us pf riders can catch people on these new machines? IMHO i would keep the pf & get some nice cheapish fox or rock shox and use it for winter rides and in general to improve yourself as a rider, so appreciate it for what it is,you would never take a Ferrari rallying would you. Enjoy the giant but remember that price tag made you faster downhill
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As for LBS people they do what's called a shop ride where you pick the most expensive bike and go for a ride to show off,I don't call that racing. Been on a few.
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During my off seasons in sheetmetal work or on strike years ago, I would work in a buddy's bike shop selling and repairing. It was like getting paid (very little) for nothing since it was just passing time for me. I was the best mechanic and second best salesman in the shop. Used the free money to buy a Bianchi Superleggera and rode the wheels off that racing then traded the frame to a buddy for some serious swag. I then bought a Bianchi 748 frame and fork with a huge dent in the top tube from the shop owner for 17 bucks. The 748 was a Belgian team bike and had a story. It was owned by the femme half of a les pair who apparently got her bf po'd at the bar across the street from the bike shop. She expressed her profound sorrow to her sweetie and I sold them a high end Bertin frame and fork then put her gruppo on it. That became my road race bike which was named by the guys on our team "Stronzo" because I had a bad habit of showing up late for races and starting in a later classification and then finishing in my own classification. I would place well in my class which really displeased my team mates since I would have pushed the team standings much higher had I started with them.... Oops! Stronzo is Ital for "A-hole" .... Ahh, the past was great when I had the lungs before they went south. Now for the point after my serious digression; My experience with racer/mechanics is this: They only worked in the shop because it was basically a football scholarship where they get paid because they can win races. In all five shops I worked or managed, they were the worst mechanics and only somewhat better at sales. There were a few exceptions to that but very few. Their primary function was to work off the spendy parts and bikes they desired or destroyed.
Did I have a point there somewhere? I'm old, don't remember..... Hey, you kids get offa my lawn!!!
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;D ;D
Chris
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The girls were apologetic to each other and us and the fact that the less girly of them tried to wrap it around a handrail wasn't lost on anyone. I brazed a nail to the tube in the middle of the dent and pulled 99% of it out while straightening the top tube. You can't find the damage in the crappy repaint and it rides straight. This was the best bike shop in town and the owner, as well as some of the racer/mechanics made their living assembling department store bikes. That sums up their mechanical abilities, they were really fast at assembling heavy junk bikes. Myself and a few other guys did all the technical builds, wheels, etc. Plus one of them was a frame builder too.
Stimpy sez Ren developed huge pectorals lifting Huffys and Murrays
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Alfa? Thrashed my 76 GTV for years and still remember that little screamer at full song. The present automotive dinosaur is a 64 Fairlane with some upgrades to stop it because of the upgrades to make it go.
I'd happily adopt a GTV if someone dropped it at my door in a basket and blanket, rang the bell and ran off! ;) A friend of mine in university had one, although I think it might have been a GTV6, and I always liked the wedgy shape that was really ahead of its time. Older Alfa's have always had a GREAT exhaust note. Mine is a '90 with fuel injection and does not sound like the older ones, even though the engine and car is essentially the same as it was 20 years earlier. I have to wonder if the injection has done it, or if the tuning is that much different... or what. The 'Alfa-song' was music to my ears back in the 70's...
Glad you put some money into stopping the Ford! Plenty of weight there and I don't recall them stopping overly well even without the go-fast upgrades! :) Typical of that era for sure!
The 'Death Trap' comment is plain stupid. Your personal 857 might well be a death trap and just because you cant get on with it doesn't means all Proflexs are the same. I ride all year round in all weather conditions and mostly proper off road and never feel I'm riding a death trap. Crazy. Taking a 16 year old bike with a worn out shock into a modern bike shop and asking their opinion is bound to get a negative response. What were you expecting? At my LBS they called the lads in to have a look at the quality of my bike as it always in top condition. A death trap certainly not.
Proflexs have a committed riding position because of the era they came from and the fact they were designed as cross country race bikes. That need a very physical riding style and you have to move around on the bike. These are retro bikes that in the right hands still kick ass today. You either get it or you don't.
Enjoy your new ride, because that's what it's all about - enjoyment -
Sell your Proflex and except that it wasn't for you. But just because you didn't get on with it doesn't make All Proflexs death traps.
Let me just reiterate that I didn't call it a Death Trap myself... and that the ex-racer admired the excellent condition and waxed poetic about the bike in addition to pointing out what he felt were shortcomings compared to CURRENT models. Remember the Lancia Delta Group B rally car? An amazing piece of technology and a screamer in the right hands. Some called it a death trap too and it contributed to the demise of Group B... not the best analogy I must admit, but the point I'm trying to make is there will always be advantages to one design over another, and disadvantages too. If there was a perfect formula, we'd all be riding the BikeCo Perfect 26/27.5/29 AutoDiameterAdjust Dual Clutch Predictive Shift DSG... LOL... And life would be pretty damn boring!
At around 1:44 in this clip: Mountain Biking Whistler, Kamloops, Sun Peak, Silverstar, Canada 2012 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUjdHPL3K9Q#ws) you will see a tricky piece that I would have tried on the Rocky BITD. Probably would have survived it too. Approaching this sort of thing on the 857 puckers my sphincter. If I grew up on it like I did on the Rocky, maybe it wouldn't. If I was to drop the seat right down, maybe it wouldn't. But if I was confronted with this on a typical ride today and no quick release seat, I'd find another way down. As you said, "either you get it or you don't". I'm not afraid to say that in this case "I don't"! ;D The rest of the ride, I have no complaints... but I can't physically get back far enough to be OK with a bit of trail like this, knowing I'm expected at work on Monday! :-[
I actually did note the features I liked about the 857 in an earlier post above too... I'm not thumbing my nose at the 857 or ProFlex - it was my personal observations of strengths and weaknesses.
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How many of us pf riders can catch people on these new machines? IMHO i would keep the pf & get some nice cheapish fox or rock shox and use it for winter rides and in general to improve yourself as a rider, so appreciate it for what it is,you would never take a Ferrari rallying would you. Enjoy the giant but remember that price tag made you faster downhill
At this point in my life, I don't think I'd keep up with the younger crowd and their new machines if I was on a KTM... If someone doesn't roll over the top of me I'm generally pretty happy... ;)
I'm still trying to dial in the right suspension settings for me on the 857. As I alluded to above, there are places where I will still enjoy riding it and will likely continue to ride it. I don't take my Alfa on the four lane divided highways because that's not what makes it fun... similarly I won't load up the 857 for a destination that isn't going to help make me enjoy my day.
While looking for an example of the kind of slope I mentioned above, I came across this video clip which covers many of the trails I rode and now ride again, regularly. It doesn't show any of the tricky stuff you sometimes need to get by to reach another trail, but is representational of the general terrain...
Show and Tell! :D
http://youtu.be/gsoMT9HUpPg (http://youtu.be/gsoMT9HUpPg)
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I drive a Alfa 156 20v jtd veloce......grin factor when boy racers see its a diesel ;D
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I drive a Alfa 156 20v jtd veloce......grin factor when boy racers see its a diesel ;D
We don't have that model in this market... for that matter, we don't really have Alfa in North America to speak of anymore. I think they left in the 80's but I'm actually not sure when it happened. Long time ago though!
My Italian mechanic (retirement age and a bit) was back in Italy a year or two ago and came back raving about the diesel Alfa he'd driven there. Maybe the same one...
I think you're actually talking about two grin factors... the first is from the boys when they see they're going blow that diesel off the road... the second grin is yours as you watch them disappear in your rear view mirror... ;D
I've owned a few diesel VW's since 2000 and now a MB E320 diesel. The VW's did pretty well, but the MB is stupidly quick! I'd bet the Alfa is lighter and significantly more nimble!
Is the '20V' a suggestion this is a 5 cylinder engine?
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Your mechanic probably drove the newer 159 which have dropped to 4 cylinders,mine is the 5 cylinder 2004. Has been remapped to 225bhp & pulls from 1400rpm,think of a v6 with a turbo. Pulls nicely away from my mates subaru wrx.
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The 2.4 liter always had a 5 cylinder engine.
That particular model has a 175hp engine, and the 20v is a reference to it's number of engine valves (4 per cylinder).
See here:
http://www.theaa.com/allaboutcars/cartestreports/2004031.html (http://www.theaa.com/allaboutcars/cartestreports/2004031.html)
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I figured it must be 5 cylinders with the assumption of 20 valves. I'd like to try that engine out... the geometry of the crankshaft for 5 cylinders seems to result in an exceptionally smooth idle - at least that's what I found with my '94 Volvo 850 turbo. With the typical harsher idle of a diesel, it probably makes quite a difference. My E320 is a V6 (they changed from the straight six of the same displacement a few years ago) rated at 210 HP and 400 ft-lbs of torque... enough to pull out stumps.
But here's the funny part... in this market, the only trailer hitch receiver I can get for it is the 1.25" size, suitable for small garden trailers only... which made finding a good bike rack all the more interesting!!! I've heard that the same car pulls travel trailers in Europe, so evidently a larger hitch receiver is available there. I wanted to be able to carry three bikes at a minimum (an odd number for sure) but had to settle for two (thanks to the small receiver size), using this model:
http://northshoreracks.com/NSR%202-bike.htm (http://northshoreracks.com/NSR%202-bike.htm)
I had been using a Yakima roof system since around 1990, but the attachments I started with don't fit newer bike frames, plus every car seemed to require different towers or dedicated factory bars that didn't fit the attachments. I finally decided to stop the bleeding, go to the hitch system and be done with the roof racks. Way faster to load and my wife can do it too, in spite of her being quite a bit smaller than me! I like that the center of gravity is more forward on the hitch than is typical of the platform racks I'd been looking at. Here's a photo of it loaded...:
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The Fairlane isn't as heavy as it looks. Right at 3000 lbs and 400 hp, 4wheel disc and suspension tweaks to corner pretty flat. It will hang the rear out before it will push.
That second vid is the kind of ride I love on the 855.
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The Fairlane isn't as heavy as it looks. Right at 3000 lbs and 400 hp, 4wheel disc and suspension tweaks to corner pretty flat. It will hang the rear out before it will push.
That second vid is the kind of ride I love on the 855.
Only 3,000 pounds? Must be plenty of air behind those big fenders because it sure looks big and heavy! ;D The E320 weighs in at just under 4,000 I think. So much for cars getting lighter with modern materials and designs etc... ::)
The second video is typical of most of the rides around here. Of course, it doesn't show the other half of it... where you chug chug chug up the hills to get home again... I have never understood how you can start and finish your ride at the same place, but do twice as much up as down... ;)
I'm pretty blessed with the terrain and both quantity and quality of trails around here. I don't realize it until I go somewhere like Vancouver where you have to drive an hour or more just to find a trail worth riding... and then share it with the other 350 people wanting to ride it too! I saw a posting tonight that a buddy from university days in the '80s is on a mountain bike vacation with a couple of friends in the deserts of Utah... Moab I think. Dodging boulders instead of trees... looks like it would be good fun.
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The Fairlane is a unit body and yes there is room in the trunk for a small country. It was a mid size car back when it was new and there weren't any of those pesky safety reinforcements to add weight.
I am most jealous of your trails. I have to drive to find that. Best I can do close is to hit the 700 acre park down the street after dark with my lights and yahoo the trails there. Actually I prefer it that way but daylight singletrack close by would be wonderful. I am dinging on the local mtb association to develop a plot next to the park for legal mtb mayhem like they have done around Seattle area. Hope they get to it before I drop dead. There were some most excellent trails out south of town that were very well done but low interest rates and development are wiping that out very fast.
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Just checked your profile and realize you're in the SeaTac area? I've wondered what the Olympic Peninsula is like for biking... are there some good trails out that way, or is it just thick impenetrable bush? I've never been out that way at all, in spite of being in Seattle for the odd Seahawks game (this is the year!) and to warm some mall benches while the wife shops ;) It looks like an area worth exploring, with or without a bike?
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Here is a guide for the Seattle area and farther out as well. http://trails.evergreenmtb.org/wiki/Main_Page (http://trails.evergreenmtb.org/wiki/Main_Page)
Went on a shuttle ride from the microwave towers in Capitol Forest down 14 miles to a camp ground. (south of Olympia) Had to stop and rest the arms several times. More downhill than I could take all at once.
Evergreen has done a load of work on trails maintenance and creation as well as building mtb parks at Duthie Hill and other locations. They are also building a park out south that I have to visit one day.
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http://trails.evergreenmtb.org/wiki/Trail:Vashon_DNR (http://trails.evergreenmtb.org/wiki/Trail:Vashon_DNR)
"ridden each day at lunchtime by K2 dudes"... learn something everyday! :)
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Yep, can see Vashon and Maury islands from my front porch. K2 on the island was handy when I needed new squishies for the 'flex. My corner deli guy/fire chief also rented K2 skates out and the skate rep comped me the squishies.
They moved off the island in 02.
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Yep, can see Vashon and Maury islands from my front porch. K2 on the island was handy when I needed new squishies for the 'flex. My corner deli guy/fire chief also rented K2 skates out and the skate rep comped me the squishies.
They moved off the island in 02.
How can you not love a small community where the fire chief also runs the deli AND rents skates out the back door! ;D
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It's a weird little burg with Tacoma and a big park on three sides and the water on the other. I was the asst chief at the time on the all volunteer dept. Used to ride with an undercover narcotics officer, small town police chief, my adopted paramedic son and me, being training officer and asst chief/medic on urban park rides. If you fell down, you could expect to get run over.
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Hi, I own a 957, I am resurecting it for 2015. I would really like risse shocks front and rear, has anybody got a second hand one for sale? (either front for girvin cross links, or rear for frame).
yours hopefully,
Skiddlipbop
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I've bought all mine off eBay. They pop up from time to time and you can buy them new on there.
Chris