K2 / Proflex Riders Group
General => Tech Forum => Topic started by: Carbonman1 on January 19, 2006, 07:40:44 am
-
mailto:sale-126668558@craigslist.org?subject=8%20speed%20xtr%20new%20full%20suspension%20bike%20$$%3f%20Make%20offer!%20(santa%20cruz)
I hope that someone here can get this for a decent price. Go get em!
-
Let try that again.... :-[ http://www.craigslist.org/sby/bik/126668558.html
-
I can't beleive it
thats an (official ???)Evo with a 957 rear end,
after Ionits project (Proflex prototype)Carbon mainframe 957 rear end
now this,
whats suddenly going on,
Oh somebody gotta buy this.
(http://a.im.craigslist.org/Yq/F2/RTBvi9Rx66IJnlTBEt14dVWE0AaD.jpg)
Simon.
-
Oh no, it's an XL too!!
I don't need it. NO no no no no o no no n on on o no ' wierhgkjvnd,m
NO! I didn't see it! I was NOT here! I do not want to know where it's located! NO!
NO! (runs away)
-
i would need a step ladder to get on it and some blocks of wood under my feet to pedal that! [smiley=laughing.gif] must admit i didnt realise how big an xl frame was till i saw that pic and looked at my (wifes [smiley=laughing.gif] so she thinks ) medium xpx
-
i cant remember when the world cup rac was held in wellington but i would swear that these were the bikes that Proflex had....a coupla years before i saw Henrick Dejernis at Cairns,Australia .Thats my size....You can see though that they have made the triangle as small as they thought feasible with a BIG seatmast...doyou bid by emailing the guy??
-
Hi Kiwi,
This bike is in Santa Cruz, CA. I believe. You email a bid or response to him through the reply note.
If you can persuade the guy to sell it to you, I can help with the transfer if needed.
Terry
-
I'm after it, too..less than an hour away!
MINE MINE MINE MINE MINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[smiley=beer.gif]
-
OOOoooooooooo
hopefully one of you get it,
it deserves to be on this board,thats abit of history there.
Simon.
-
the guy emailed me,he says there IS another guy interested but no commitment yet...I wont drive the price up,one of us MUST get it tho!
-
Hello Kiwi,
The other guy is myself, Bruce in Toronto.
I would really love to add this one to my stable . I have an 856 that I've spent more money on in the last six months because of this site. You guys are a great bit of inspiration.
I'm in the process of finalizing the purchase. I'll let you now if I goes well. Then I'll post pics of it in the snowy north.
Bruce.
-
Good on Ya bruce...the shipping would probably be too much for me,though would love to have it.
-
I am stoked that the right people got a crack at that bike. Bravo. Please post some detail pics for all of us to drool over. I would have gone for it but, those XL frames are HUGE.
-
they arent that big...for example a 20 in 756 has a top tube only 1/2 in longer than the 18 in,also had a 1/2 longer stem.....and when you are 6'3" you need a bit more space
And thanks for pointing it out,i would never had seen it otherwise.If Bruce doesnt get it I will have a crack.
-
I am 5'9". I had a large framed 855 that was fine with a short stem. It kinda felt like I was riding motorcycle. Was the XL size the same as the 'way big' K2 size?
-
Was the XL size the same as the 'way big' K2 size?
Yes.
My bro-in-law has a Way Big Attack frame. I've ridden it and it feels big, but definitely not so big that it's unwieldy. In fact, the larger size (maybe the longer wheelbase or something else) makes it feel very stable. I'm 5'11" and he's just under 5'10". The extra height is a little bit disconcerting when riding in technical stuff (farther to fall)!!!
-
Hmm... I dunno. I'm just short of 5-10 and really prefer my Way Big 856 over my Big 856. It is a lot more stable and handles much better. It's got a decent stem (see gallery) and here's the interesting part; the BB and standover height of the Big and Way Big are the same. The most noticeable difference is 1" more the length of the top tube.
That's a cool looking bike...
-
i think my 756 was actually a 20",ithink the next year 97 they called the 20 a way big
-
I bought and sold a waybig 4000 with smartfork to my machinist. NOt without riding it first of course. At best, toptube was not more than 1/2 inch taller than my Oz or 957. It was longer and really smooth on descents. A bit slow on turns, but I prefer that rather than quick and jittery.
As far as I know, XL is the same as Waybig.
Is this bike on board with us? Bruce?
Terry
-
yes...but my lips are sealed.As far as i know the guy was talking to three people,all from here!
-
yes...but my lips are sealed.As far as i know the guy was talking to three people,all from here!
Shoooooosh
-
Here are pics taken a few moments ago, down in my parking garage at work. [smiley=laughing.gif]
A wee bit of history....the previous owner was a team mechanic for Pro~Flex k2 that year....and this was a spare bike for one of the racers. it had been in his garage, the pedals have never been installed! He works for Santa Cruz, now.
I think it will need some recharge on the shocks (who cares)....but otherwise it's pristine, cited four nicks on the lower seat stay, that's it.
The guy who had it gave me some spare springs and parts.....AND a blue Pro~Flex sleeveless racing jersey :-* circa 1997.
It looks like an EVO frame with a *57 style rear triangle....the rear shock is a Noleen but never put into production.
XTR and Sun rims/DT spokes/Panaracer tires, etc a Can Creek headset....I forgot to ask if it was custom sized frame or a "WayBig"....I'll find out.
I'll weigh it tonight but it feels about 22# w/o pedals.
[smiley=beer.gif]
Angus
(http://idriders.com/proflex/galleries/carbon_angus/DSC04022.jpg)
(http://idriders.com/proflex/galleries/carbon_angus/DSC04025.jpg)
(http://idriders.com/proflex/galleries/carbon_angus/DSC04024.jpg)
(http://idriders.com/proflex/galleries/carbon_angus/DSC04028.jpg)
[smiley=beer.gif]
-
Congrats Bill,
looking forward to test report [smiley=nod.gif]
sounds very light,should be quick :P.
Simon.
-
Oh well , as the song goes..." you don't always get what you want" .. Way to go Angus! So, when all of us XL riders come to visit can we ride it? pretty please.
I just couldn't compete .. I only went as high as $700. With exchange and shipping and duty it was too much for me.
Time to start shopping locally.
Bruce.
-
WOW!!!!! :o
Very cool. 8)
Terry
-
Man, that frame is awesome. You won't be seeing any of those on the trail for sure. Thanks for the pictures. I'll be very interested in how that frame rides with that short travel shock; but I bet it is gonna be f a s t. I'm happy its in the hands of someone who can truely appreciate it.
-
Congrats Angus!
WOW! That is THE longest i2 shock I have ever seen with the shortest stroke to boot! It looks very odd!
Quick, get an adaptor! [smiley=laughing.gif]
-
Well the rear shock is different, but the i2i is the same as well as the stroke. It has a tiny titanium spring, yes, and probably won't get the three inches of travel, because of binding. It has the damping adjustment (or is it rebound?) under the seat stay.....as there is no knurled nob at the base of the shock. I haven't taken it apart and won't until next week sometime due to travel and workl, etc...but she is in the living room, much to my kids delight and wife's dismay. My son says first thing..."When you die can I have it?"
I quickly measured the length of the swing~arm and the seat stay and compared those to my 857's..identical. I was kinda hoping it was something a wee bit different than "just" an EVO frame with a *57 rear, but I guess it is???
It has bushings for the main bearing and all the "old" circa '97 syncros flat aluminum bars, with carbon fiber bar ends.
Oh and 26.5#'s on a digital scale w/o pedals
It is real purdy though :-*
[smiley=beer.gif]
-
Well, I am gonna take a wild guess here, but I think that the travel has increased so much that the team decided to build a shorter travel shock to compensate.
?????
I love it!
-
Bill, can you let us know
what the stroke of that shock is (please)
I want to put it on the linkage simulator,
[smiley=beer.gif] [smiley=beer.gif]
Simon.
-
I hadn't seen the earlier photos on the link, so I was really hoping this was going to be a Fully carbon 957 like the one at the London, BIKE'97 show in the UK
(http://idriders.com/proflex/galleries/Simon/carbonframe.jpg)
(http://idriders.com/proflex/galleries/Simon/carbon1.jpg)
But hey it's still pretty neat!
That Rear Coil's gotta bind before full shock travel is reached surely?
Is it just me or is the seat mast different from production Evo's (and 4000/5000's)??
I think it's got an extra fillet on the top of the mast to the seat tube?
Maybe this was done on Way-Big's? or maybe just this "Team Issue"?
Anyway, great purchase! I think You're outdoing me on what my Wife calls the "Pro~Flex Museum" !!!!
-
That spring shouldn't bind before full stroke is reached,
because if it does then thats plain dangerous and ain't
right.
I'd like to think thats a short stroke shock,
its what I'd expect from a team (race bike),
but hey it
was rumored the team bikes with elastomer shocks
had Ti rods through the middle to stop the suspension working
but gave the public the impression the team riders
used F/S bikes.
Simon.
-
That rumour is plausible Simon. I remember the rhetoric in that era. Suspension back then was a buzz word travel for the most part was suppressed for fear of public or media scrutiny. A company would have been called crazy to build 4 to 5" travel bike. The pressure to push limits is just to risky in business in general. The only ones at the time who believed it was possible where the engineers. But they don't really have a say in things.
-
i saw and touched Hank Djernis bike (sp)and spoke to some of the proflex guys when the world cup was in Cairns,Australia many moons ago.The elastomers hardly moved,they gave me a couple to try on the rear,they hardly moved even tho i was somewhat heavier than hank.The fork seemed nice tho.I think they were "x55/x56" bikes
-
I saw Hank and the rest of the Proflex team race,
no way was that suspension moving,
there I was with my pride and joy a new 856
and out there was Hank racing one but at least my
suspension moved [smiley=laughing.gif]
Simon.
-
Hank? Maybe you guys mean Henrik?
Or is Hank like an "American slang"?
Anyways, still a cool ride.
Wow, if I didn't know any better i'd almost think there's a revolution starting with these! :o
[smiley=laughing.gif]
-
Simon...I think it's 2 inches excluding the red rubber bumper...stroke would be the length the shaft can compress into the shock??? The upper retainer ring is wound all the way down on this "wee" ti spring.
The guy I bought it from said they ran these VERY stiff as in almost as rigid as they could get....He did give me a "regular" ti spring, too.
Also this frame was custom built for Beat Wabel who rode for Pro~Flex, then Cannondale..it isn't just a WayBig.... Um, I measured the top tube...middle of seatpost to middle of crown (straight line and have a whopping 24 inches). so I guess it's a Way, WayBig? [smiley=laughing.gif]
I won't be able to get to other things 'till Wednesday, so be patient....First thing I want to do is see how the shocks are and also the different cone/bevel shape of the the rear shock into the strut.
Also the guy I bought it from is going through his garage for anything Pro~Flex...for me to have first crack at. Whoopee!
[smiley=beer.gif]
-
Thanks for that CarbonAngus,yep thats the stroke,
its certainly turning out to be a very very interesting bike,
Simon.
-
The guy I bought it from said they ran these VERY stiff as in almost as rigid as they could get....He did give me a "regular" ti spring, too.
Also this frame was custom built for Beat Wabel who rode for Pro~Flex, then Cannondale..it isn't just a WayBig.... Um, I measured the top tube...middle of seatpost to middle of crown (straight line and have a whopping 24 inches). so I guess it's a Way, WayBig? [smiley=laughing.gif]
Ugh. Why would anybody want a full-suspension bike that stiff?! Thank goodness we know what to do about that!
As for the size, 24" sounds just right for a Way Big. The way you measured it, my medium 5000 is 22" and my large 5000 is 23", so the logical TT length for WB would be 24". I have a hardtail single speed with a 24" top tube. It's too big for me at 5'11", but it's my city bike so it's fine. It's actually a great length for going fast - very stable, but I prefer the control that a shorter top-tube gives me. I guess I'm not much of a speed demon. (At least not since I moved from Utah to the "non-mountains" of New York!)
-
dont forget these guys move pretty fast and most xc courses arent that techy.....ride quality isnt high on their wish list,max traction with minimum bob,with some shock absorption is the goal i would think
-
Yeah, I guess I was thinking in terms of modern suspension designs. However, even with older suspension designs I think that having a shock that stiff was more of a psychological advantage than a real one. Suspension just "felt" less efficient, but in reality, I don't think it was. Plus, when your shock is that stiff, you lose both "dig-in" and traction because you still bounce like you would with a hardtail...
-
The proflex team rode suspenders because thats what the company built and were devoted to, even if thier own top riders were not convince of the benefit.
I am sure that there was still a great hardtail logic back then. The notion was I think was to make the rear as rigid as possible to rule out power loss. A misnomer I believe.
Terry
-
I remember Giant did a study on their riding team when the NRS came out. (Perhaps not a perfect comparison since that design has no negative travel, but a full susser, nonetheless). If I recall correctly, their tests showed that while the overall times were very similar, the effort (based on heart rate) was about 10% less with the suspension bikes. So even though the riders universally agreed that they THOUGHT they were going much slower, they were actually going just as fast and working less. Sounds like my kind of thing... :)
I think we're all used to the feeling of full suspension by now. (Plus, just prior to that era, URT designs were all the rage - and those DID suck a lot of energy. Now that we have shocks that eliminate pedal bob though, URT may make a come-back).
-
I remember Giant did a study on their riding team when the NRS came out. (Perhaps not a perfect comparison since that design has no negative travel, but a full susser, nonetheless). If I recall correctly, their tests showed that while the overall times were very similar, the effort (based on heart rate) was about 10% less with the suspension bikes. So even though the riders universally agreed that they THOUGHT they were going much slower, they were actually going just as fast and working less. Sounds like my kind of thing... :)
I think we're all used to the feeling of full suspension by now. (Plus, just prior to that era, URT designs were all the rage - and those DID suck a lot of energy. Now that we have shocks that eliminate pedal bob though, URT may make a come-back).
doesn't Giant have a whole new bike coming out ???
Pro~Flex did a similar study as well as Ellsworth (currently with their Truth frame). Back then....hardtails were still ruling the roost. Oh and mentions of endo's with the cross-links. The team mechanic says it would happen to the pros at times too. [smiley=laughing.gif]
[smiley=beer.gif]
-
I got the shocks off today and am sending out to get recharged. The rear is an NR-1 as best I can sumize and the front is an NR-2. I thought for a momnent to put a risse on the rear but the bike will only see pavement, maybe some light XC. One thing for sure Ti springs are sure light! It Might have Ti bolts, too as they are different than on my 857.
[smiley=beer.gif]
-
Try using a magnet on the bolts you suspect to be Ti
if they're not magnetic then they are Ti or Aluminium,
unlikely to be Aluminium as they are not strong
enough.
Simon.
-
Try using a magnet on the bolts you suspect to be Ti
if they're not magnetic then they are Ti or Aluminium,
unlikely to be Aluminium as they are not strong
enough.
Simon.
rear upper shock bolt and bottom seat stay bolts are not attracted to the magnet...rest seem to be hardened steel/ the bolts in the front linkage are not Ti. shocks have been sent off to get recharged, might have a maiden ride in 10 days or so.
[smiley=beer.gif]
-
rear upper shock bolt and bottom seat stay bolts are not attracted to the magnet...rest seem to be hardened steel/ the bolts in the front linkage are not Ti. shocks have been sent off to get recharged, might have a maiden ride in 10 days or so.
i want it to be mine mine mine......
-
i want it to be mine mine mine......
the bolts ??? [smiley=laughing.gif]
[smiley=beer.gif]
-
No Name.... Invalid email address... that name is already in use by another member.........and every time my message gets deleted and I have to start again, just because I forgot my password.....
My fault.... but annoying all the same.
Anyway..... Congrats Bill, that is one sweet piece of history and I am so glad that you got it.... it could not have gone to a better home.
However, tell your son that when you die he cant have it..... as you are giving it to Mike.
Take it easy Pardner....
Hammer.
-
However, tell your son that when you die he cant have it..... as you are giving it to Mike.
Take it easy Pardner....
Hammer.
I will amend my will, it will be yours, pardner. Amen.
[smiley=beer.gif]
-
Hammer there is indeed another hammer,who has made no posts and registered Jan 29 2003,you as Hammer registered Jan 31 2003,17 vs 51.If you run into trouble again post a message or send me an email,i can reset your password......
-
Shocks are due to me Mon or Tue..look for a first impression and "virgin ride" :P report very soon! [smiley=laughing.gif]
I am going back to the guy I bought the bike from to rummage his garage for Pro~Flex memorabilia and bits in a week or so. If I run into any 8 speed stuff, or other older mtn bike bits.....is there an interest out there???
[smiley=beer.gif]
-
yes any 1996 compatible stuff.... :D
-
yes any 1996 compatible stuff.... :D
hopefully i wiill be able to suck up all and anything "pro~flex"..I will divy...'cuz I am a 8) guy
any circa '96 is yours kiwi
[smiley=beer.gif]
-
one shock returned fine the other returned "dead" and sent back...the nr-1....the simple easy one...kinda frustrating...and gets me a wee bit >:(
so still no maiden voyage :'(...been raining a lot so have the trainer in the living room :(.....
[smiley=beer.gif]
-
Bummer about the shocks.
I got my Risse front shock mounted in place of my smartshock, but it is very stiff. Called Kevin at Risse and he said that the slow speed circuit may be clogged.
Anyway he also said that some WD40 on the seal my loosen the fit a bit while it goes through it's break-in. If that does not work, send it back. Want's to send me his accufiller no charge for my trouble. Pretty nice guy to work with.
Good luck with Noleen Suck Service.
Terry
-
Good luck with Noleen Suck Service.
Terry
yeah if I wasn't so b-e-n-t- on riding the bike "stock"...what am i thinking??? :o
i still think noleens are best for x~links, though, they are valved right and not subject to the side stresses that the rear is...you can get the Risse dialed in but it may take another adjustment even after you get this one back. good luck with it....
[smiley=beer.gif]
-
Hey guys, I hate to point out the obvious but if you look carefully you'll notice the rear shock isn't longer, but the spring is WAY shorter, which makes sense. The shorter the spring the lighter it is. It was a wieght saving measure. That and you put a superstiff Ti spring (which will go soft soon enough from what I've read in the past) so it deosn't move and you have a late 90's race bike. I remeber the days we the pros would set up the first Sids as hard as possible, so that they were basically riding a rigid. I'm not sure what those guys were thinking, but oh well. They're pros and I'm not.
Oh, and I found a gold mine the other day! My grandparents gave me boxes from my college days that I had stored in their garage when I left for the Navy. I found a '97 brocure folder. It was a Proflex printed folder with like 5 brocures inside. My jaw just dropped when I found it. They are in pristine conditions too. So cool. I hope someday they'll be worth something.
But in one of the brocures there is a handlebar stem that is light weight and has a bracket that hangs down from the middle. The stem/bracket thing replaces that big L shped thing and the top of the fork linkage mounts too it, potentially saving a ton of weight. Does anyone know where I can find one? It was in the assesories brocure.
And no, I can't spell. ;)
Oh, and 9 months after being left behind in Australia, the 5500 with its great working front and rear Fox floats and my road bike are being packed up, and I should have my babies in less than 2 weeks, just in time for spring, YEAH!
Later all, and thanks.
-
But in one of the brocures there is a handlebar stem that is light weight and has a bracket that hangs down from the middle. The stem/bracket thing replaces that big L shped thing and the top of the fork linkage mounts too it, potentially saving a ton of weight. Does anyone know where I can find one? It was in the assesories brocure.
errrrr, I think you're talking about an early Vector fork stem, i.e. as opposed to a later Vector II or a Crosslink which both use ULM's??
Like this?
(http://idriders.com/proflex/files/Vector I.jpeg)
I've never before considered that using a Vector I Stem and dumping the ULM ("....big 'L' shaped thing....") might actually save weight........Hmmmm............
Col
-
here's one if you want it:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Girvin-Proflex-Vector-2-Forks-with-Retro-1-Steerer_W0QQitemZ7226241489QQcategoryZ36135QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
-
the only problem with that is your stem/handlelbar height,is directly related to the CM
-
Yeah, that's pretty much it, but this was actually for the X97s and said Girvin on the side. here's the pic:
(http://idriders.com/proflex/galleries/jazclrint/PFB3.jpg)
Hope it works. :D
-
so i have the rear NR-1 back from Noleen S* Service for the second time....
what "should be a normal" rebound speed for this shock shaft? Mine seems like mollasses and was thinking it should somewhere inbetween what the settings are on an NR-2, but not knowing.....am asking here....
remember 2 that it is valved for a race bike and had a stubby ti spring on it, my guess is about a 300# if the spring thickness are the same as the steel springs. the rider this was bulit for was my height about but of course maybe 50#'s lighter....lol
i'll probably wind up getting a riesse for the rear in time, anyway
TIA
Angus
[smiley=beer.gif]
-
Sorry if this post bores any one....
The bike is up in San Jose at my folks and I ride her once a week. I'm modifying the handlebars to a carbon riser and put on one of my speed-v saddles.
Still having some issues with the rear nr-1 so for the time being will swap it out for an NR-2 with a ti spring, but may go for a Genesis in the near future.
Very solid rear for hammering, the first Pro~Flex I've had that has really felt like a hardtail, yet plush over bumps and the like (i'm all XC). Think the WayBig size suits me better than the Larges, I have been riding (Oz and 857).
Oh btw one of 18 built and never put into production! [smiley=laughing.gif]
[smiley=beer.gif]
-
Hey, I love reading about it.
The slow rebound problem sounds like the same thing I am going thru with Risse and my Crosslink Genisis. Have sent is back for another round of redamping.
Only 18 made huh? How cool is that!
Terry
-
Just wondering. What is the i2i of that rear shock. Maybe it is an optical illusion, but it looks really long.
Terry
-
Just wondering. What is the i2i of that rear shock. Maybe it is an optical illusion, but it looks really long.
Terry
Posted by: Carbon_Angus Posted on: Jan 27th, 2006, 2:57pm
Well the rear shock is different, but the i2i is the same as well as the stroke. It has a tiny titanium spring, yes, and probably won't get the three inches of travel, because of binding.
Pay attention Terry we bin thru that already! [smiley=laughing.gif]
-
Ok, Ok! Dang, caught with my pants down. That shock is a work of art. I likee!
Terry
-
Hey, I love reading about it.
The slow rebound problem sounds like the same thing I am going thru with Risse and my Crosslink Genisis. Have sent is back for another round of redamping.
Only 18 made huh? How cool is that!
Terry
It's more like a wiper seal, noise issue. I've doused the shaft and that doesn't even seem to work. My old LBS in SJ had to ream out setpost tube and remove a stop weld and I fear some "nano-sized" shavings got on the shaft (he didn't cover the shock) and may have embedded in the seals. any remedy with this possibility? can I remove the wiper seal w/o blowing myself up?
BTW the XTR 8 speed groupo is pretty damn good. I notice very precise shifting (esp the front mech...OMG) and solid rear and cranks. The brakes may get tossed for some Avid mag v-brakes though. I'm not disc-ing this one out, don't need to with how it's being ridden.
[smiley=beer.gif]